DDG has never ever been close to VdS... to me, it's like saying Barthez had some good games and therefore was better than Peter S
FourFourTwo’s 50 greatest United players of all-time.
- Thread starter Fortitude
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yeh I did mean to write 70! Don't think you'd need to go any higher than that though
Giggs without doubt was the best, proper knut though.
Because of Cantona, people tend to forget the affect Schmeichel had. I think he was pretty much on the same level. Changed the way we defended. Lost count of the number of points he saved us plus one throw and we were in deep in the opponents' half. no need for stupid playing it out from the back
for me, none of that makes him our best player of all time. Most of that makes him what is laughable called "a very good servant" but no more
Disagree, De Gea was up there as best goalkeeper in the world at United. Barthez wasn't.
"In 2017–18, David de Gea saved Manchester United 19 points which allowed them to attain 2nd in the Premier League. Based on performances and chances, they should have achieved 6th with 62 points. This was the biggest difference maker performance in Europe by a single player."
I was just trying to illustrate the dangers of sticking to just one or two metrics. Neville was consistent for a long time and only Giggs and Scholes won more. But of course I agree that Giggs was much better.
It depends on what you associate with the word. "Greatest" can also be the perfect word to describe Cantona and Keane, for instance.
But we're digressing now. Giggs has never been widely considered our greatest player. Which is a good thing, because it means that we have been spoiled. Imagine having a player like Giggs and still being in doubt about whether or not he's your GOAT? It's a very privileged position to be in
No one ever said he was our best. But he is definitely the greatest, from what he achieved at the club. Greatest and best are two different things.
Definitely a more talented player but Rooney contributed more to United
Sir Bobby Charlton then Giggs for me. Scholes should be higher.
Maybe him being utter shite for his last 5 seasons skewed people's memories of him. Or maybe it was the fact he played at United for 13 years and no one can even tell you what his best position was.
Vidic should be much higher, top 10 at least.
Not a bad list. Keane is too low.
Giggs could be a bit lower but 13 league titles bloody hell, so fair enough.
G. Neville and DdG are too high.
Giggs could be a bit lower but 13 league titles bloody hell, so fair enough.
G. Neville and DdG are too high.
Or maybe the fact he threatened to leave more than once as well.
Over who though?
The top 10 should probably be the below in no particular order;
Charlton, Best, Law, Edwards, Robson Cantona, Giggs, Scholes, G. Neville, Rooney.
Then we have the likes of Hughes, Irwin, Schmeichel, Keane, Bruce, Ferdinand, who deservedly should be above Vidic.
I don't think Gary needs to be in the top 10, I like him, don't get me wrong, but I think that's a stretch. People include Edwards because of what happened, but it was too long ago and his career was too short, it's a nostalgic/sympathy vote.
Irwin over Neville every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Better defender, better going forward.
That’s a joke surely? Keane and even Rio should be above Neville. In my opinion also above Rooney, but 100% above Neville.
Well in Giggs’ case it does. Same with SAF. When people talk about their longevity they don’t mean winning a couple of Mickey Mouse cups in 10 or so years, they bloody won big trophy after big trophy for as long as they played/managed. So Giggs could be a little lower, yes, but he could very well also be justified 1st. No idea how you can even think of someone like Noble when discussing this.
And this is even without considering that Giggs was one of the most talented players the league has ever seen whereas Noble was well Mark Noble.
That is fair enough and you have your reasons, but having the 3rd most league titles in the clubs history and having the 5th most appearances in the clubs history puts him in my top 10.
Edwards is more revisionism you are probably correct. It is unfortunate, as he would have achieved so much with this club and would have been seen in the same light as Charlton if not for the tragic events.
Irwin was a better player but in my opinion Nev is a greater player for the club, only just though.
Do you not understand the difference between better and greater? G.Neville has more league titles for the club than anyone that is not named Giggs or Scholes and is only one of four United players to have 2 European Cup/ Champions League trophies. He was Mr Man United and was one of the most loyal players we ever had
Keane threatened to leave the club and stayed once he became the highest paid player in British football history at the time. Then the way he left the club also needs to be included, he should never have slated his team mates and then had a go Sir Alex the way he did, that was extremely disrespectful to the club. For the record, Keane is my favourite player of all time.
Rio downed tools under David Moyes, which showed he was really a Fergie boy rather than a Man United boy.
Gary Neville showed more love to the club and never disrespected it. That along with having the 3rd most league titles in the clubs history and having the 5th most appearances in the clubs history makes him a greater player for the club in my opinion.
Nah. Did Neville even play in the 2008 CL campaign apart from maybe a couple of minutes? Or in PL that season? If not then he has as many CL and league titles as Keane.
He was also way less talented than the other class of 92 members. Him loving United, hating Pool and stuff like that doesn’t make him a better or greater player than Keane. I also remember a lot of mistakes from him especially in the big games including in Europe.
Keane was rightfully fighting for a higher salary after leading the team to a bloody treble. United were paying their extremely successful players lower salaries back then than some other way less successful clubs in England.
Sorry, but I basically have to disagree with more or less everything you just wrote.
Also couldn’t care less who did what under the clown Moyes, no idea how Moyes is even mentioned when discussing the greatest/best United players.
I thought some more about this and came up with the following top 20. The list is ordered, but I wouldn't protest much if you shuffled the players within each tier. The tiers are pretty final, although the gap between Tier 1 and Tier 2 is not nearly as wide as the gap between the others:
Tier 1
1. Best
2. Scholes
3. Keane
4. Charlton
5. Giggs
Tier 2
6. Cantona
7. Law
8. Ronaldo
9. Robson
Tier 3
10. Schmeichel
11. Irwin
12. Rio
14. Rooney
15. Edwards
Tier 4
16. Vidic
17. Beckham
18. G.Neville
19. Van Nistelrooy
20. De Gea
VDS, Evra and Stam are very close to taking the 20th spot, but I had to give it to DDG for making PL team of the season 5 times in a 6 year period and being United's best player by a comfortable margin during most of this time.
Tier 1
1. Best
2. Scholes
3. Keane
4. Charlton
5. Giggs
Tier 2
6. Cantona
7. Law
8. Ronaldo
9. Robson
Tier 3
10. Schmeichel
11. Irwin
12. Rio
14. Rooney
15. Edwards
Tier 4
16. Vidic
17. Beckham
18. G.Neville
19. Van Nistelrooy
20. De Gea
VDS, Evra and Stam are very close to taking the 20th spot, but I had to give it to DDG for making PL team of the season 5 times in a 6 year period and being United's best player by a comfortable margin during most of this time.
Not true for league titles, because he was our captain and lifted the title the season before the CL win. And he made enough appearances the season after (2008/09) to get another PL medal.
He won't have gotten one for 1994, so that gives him one more than Keane overall.
I disagree. This goal cost us the title in 2012:
He's had the same weaknesses forever.
All fair and well to disagree. It’s fair to note, though, that David de Gea was named PL goalkeeper of the year five times, more than anyone since Peter Shilton, more than Van der Sar (3) and Schmeichel (1). Bryan Robson made team of the year an impressive six times, Mark Hughes four, these three are by far the most recognized players from outside the dominant era. The United players named De Gea Man Utd player of the year four times, members likewise. A whole lot of people with very good grounds to assess this all taken together, seem to agree that De Gea is the one outstanding United player in a period over several years where he seemed to partly carry the team. Not unlike Bryan Robson in the eighties.
The fact that De Gea has had the same weaknesses from the beginning of his carreer to now, is not really relevant to that, nor is it surprising: All keepers, and players, have some of the main weaknesses all through their carreer. Neuer can get hotheaded and overstep sometimes, Schmeichel could lose the ball coming for crosses, Buffon could at times be a little passive. These relative weaknesses were larger at the beginning and end of their carreers, and in some periods of bad form. This is normal, it’s the same with every keeper.
That De Gea made a mistake in 2012, when he was 21 and adapting to PL and nobody thought he was at his best, bears little upon that.
Not a chance, “at least” top 10 for Vidic, that would be silly.
Also wasn’t a fan of how he signed a contract with Inter mid season, whilst still being the club captain during the catastrophic Moyes season.
Great player though.
In what world does Van Nistelrooy rank higher than Andy Cole, let alone 22 places ahead?
This list.
Hard to compare players from different eras. Ive been watching us for jsut over 40 years, cant put players in order, but the best for me would have to be:
GK: Schmeichel>VDS>DeGea
Full Backs: Irwin>Evra
CB: Ferdinand>Stam
CM: RObson>Keane>Scholes
Wingers: ROnaldo>Giggs>Beckham
Number 10s: Cantona>Rooney
Strikers: Ruud Van Nistlerooy>Yorke>Hughes
Not going over medals, time at club , purely ability and performances for us at the club. Could be loads of memorable mentions of coruse, but for me, these players stand out above the others, all players that could have played for any club in my opinion.
I think Beckham and especially Yorkes careers here are seriously under rated. Both were pure quality in terms or work rate, attitude, ability and production during there times here. I know Yorkes time here wasnt particularly long but his name pretty much never comes up amongst our best ever strikers its very often RVN or RVP. Hughes bit biased and sentimental on as growing up alongside Robson he was a hero, but still if not the best, one of the best I have seen at holdign the ball up
GK: Schmeichel>VDS>DeGea
Full Backs: Irwin>Evra
CB: Ferdinand>Stam
CM: RObson>Keane>Scholes
Wingers: ROnaldo>Giggs>Beckham
Number 10s: Cantona>Rooney
Strikers: Ruud Van Nistlerooy>Yorke>Hughes
Not going over medals, time at club , purely ability and performances for us at the club. Could be loads of memorable mentions of coruse, but for me, these players stand out above the others, all players that could have played for any club in my opinion.
I think Beckham and especially Yorkes careers here are seriously under rated. Both were pure quality in terms or work rate, attitude, ability and production during there times here. I know Yorkes time here wasnt particularly long but his name pretty much never comes up amongst our best ever strikers its very often RVN or RVP. Hughes bit biased and sentimental on as growing up alongside Robson he was a hero, but still if not the best, one of the best I have seen at holdign the ball up
Yes that is position for position the biggest absolute no way for me. Neville got better year on year, model pro, fiercely loyal and was actually under rated going forward...........but Irwin with the addition of a great free kick on him was a poor mans Maldini and a poor mans Maldini is about as bigger compliment as can give, rarely beaten, barely ever a mistake or under 7/8 out of ten and in a world of modern full bakcs being so attacking, he would be worth a fortune like Maldini as he was fantastic going forward without any flashyness.....but a top top defender as well, something that is very rare.
I dont think any player who played with both including Neville himself would put themselves above Irwin, under stated but a world class player who would be one of the first names on the team sheet from any era at the club for sure
Personally though he made a great contribution to the club and had good feet in the area, I think people over rate Cole as a striker individually here. Not slating him as he was very good here but I think several strikers were better than Cole here, especially the guy he had such a great partnership with, in his peak here Yorke for me was world class. The signing of him was just as instrumental on takin gus on to the next level as the signing of Stam, he was a huge huge player in our best ever season, I get him being low as really he only had 2/3 big seasons here and then Sheringham was used far more often....but I think he was world class in that period, Cole was never world class
In a sane world?
Ole higher than Cole and Yorke is criminal
Started at 1 saw Giggs not Best stopped reading further. I am confident though in saying horrible list
I agree with Yorke but he literally didn’t have much years with us at that level. You could argue he showed more at Villa.
But Cole was a great finisher and we literally watched him improve season on season. So again I can’t agree. He had some amazing Champions league finishes and bare natural clean strike he was better than Ole in every aspect.
I also understand the feel good factor but when Ole was the main guy you could also feel the dip off in quality except for that break through season.
Why should Best be number 1?
By being the best footballer of all time according to pretty much everyone who watched him
He had great feet in the box and scored lots of very good goals, dont disagree there, he also missed a lot of chances and his link up play early on and overall wasnt at the level of a best 50 ever plaeyr for me, it was only quality with Yorke really., he didnt seem to gel with the others, especially Cantona early on. There were several really good England strikers at the time, but there was a reason he didnt play much for England in my opinion.
As for Ole, he always hit the target and corners but wouldnt say he was a brilliant finisher no. He was msot effective off the bench generally.
One thing many forget, his best period really for us surprisingly was when he played on the right, he was keeping Beckham out of the side, admittedly partly due to the problems Beckham was having with the manager with hi ssuperstar status off the pitch.
Yes Yorkes period was very short, but then so was Ruuds, Cantonas, Van Persies, even Ronaldos.....but they are always mentioned, thats why I always find it strange Yorke never is
Okay so why is CR7 not number 1. Who is officially behind Messi the greatest footballer ever in life.
Why would Neville get in ahead of Schmeichel, Keane or Irwin?
Agree, I think many are looking at the medals or period of time here. Cole rightly deserves a place in all of our and hearts, but individually he is incomparable as a finisher with Ruud and lets not forget despite a wealth of talent at the club, his career here was in a transitional period when the side wasnt at its best....He would get in my best ever eleven, Cole wouldnt be a consideration, a few ahead of him for me