Forlan was given plenty of chances and Pique was never going to be chosen ahead of Vidic and Ferdinand.
Forlan
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Forlan was given plenty of chances and Pique was never going to be chosen ahead of Vidic and Ferdinand.
He has always been a scorer of important goals, even during his duck he looked like scoring when he came on against Leverkusen (that goal-line headed clearance was criminal, we may have been on 4 now).
I'm not denying it is handy to have a guy like Berbatov to play the average teams, he tends to do well then and there are more of those than quality ones so he still provides value (you need those points after all), but when it's squeaky bum time he is not your man.
Unfortunately for us, we were left with him as the guy to rely on against Chelsea of all teams, and that's when we lost the title. I would have given my left bollock to have our (the old) Diego instead.
One can only accurately judge whether something was a mistake or not with the benefit of hindsight. If I go out and bet my life savings on Spain to win the World Cup and they don't win it, it was a very big mistake, if they do, it was a great decision. If Ferguson had the power to accurately predict the future he wouldn't make any mistakes, would he?
Yes but if we were to have kept them they may not have performed to the same level, so you can't judge.
Yeah sign our old player past his best at an inflated price. Perhaps we should go after Kleberson as well.
You can't judge with 100% certainty, but I think it's fair to say that Pique wouldn't have turned into a shit defender because he played for United.
Forlan had a rough deal at United in that he played in a system designed for Ruud, a pure goal poacher. He was never going to fit in that team considering the player he is. When he played without Ruud he was asked to lead the line and when he played with Ruud he had no space behind the defenders because Ruud was always forcing them back by keeping on the shoulder of the last man.
Play him in our free flowing counter attacking system we have now and he'd score a shed load. In fact he'd be a fantastic partner for Rooney. Just a shame he's the wrong side of 30.
Play him in our free flowing counter attacking system we have now and he'd score a shed load. In fact he'd be a fantastic partner for Rooney. Just a shame he's the wrong side of 30.
When given a few matches in a row he showed he could score goals but too bad for him we had Ruud at the time who came back from injury.I wouldn't mind to see him do a Larsson for us
Actually the problem with Forlan was that he just couldn't play 4-4-2 for us... Very similar to the Berbs situation apart that the team back then didn't have a good as core as the team at present. We had a progressing Ronaldo, we had Djembax2, Kleberson, Bellion... etc. Our GK wasn't anywhere as good as VDS and our back 4 was unsettled.
We had Rossi coming up and we also had Ole and Saha and as Forlan wasn't progressing as we'd expect SAF decided to let Forlan go because he needed 1st team football which benefitted both sides.
No harm done, I'm very happy for Forlan as he was one of the rare players that left us and actually progressed.... Apart from him and Pique ( Rossi has been okay but not in the level of these two ) I haven't seen many of our old players actually having a good time.
We had Rossi coming up and we also had Ole and Saha and as Forlan wasn't progressing as we'd expect SAF decided to let Forlan go because he needed 1st team football which benefitted both sides.
No harm done, I'm very happy for Forlan as he was one of the rare players that left us and actually progressed.... Apart from him and Pique ( Rossi has been okay but not in the level of these two ) I haven't seen many of our old players actually having a good time.
Rossi had just signed that summer and was 17. He was nowhere near first team.
The club had just signed Smith and were hot in pursuit of Rooney as well. With Ruud and Saha already on the books, as well as the likes Bellion, Giggs sometimes playing off the striker, Ole (but crocked), Ebanks-Blake in reserve, there were too many forwards. Forlan was the odd man out.
The club had just signed Smith and were hot in pursuit of Rooney as well. With Ruud and Saha already on the books, as well as the likes Bellion, Giggs sometimes playing off the striker, Ole (but crocked), Ebanks-Blake in reserve, there were too many forwards. Forlan was the odd man out.
behave. Evans is good but it isn't like he's a wildly different style cb to (like a rio-esque type).
Evans is as slow if not slower, and is technical ability is lightyears behind pique.
both are tall and good in the air and have good physiques. Pique has all the tools evans has and then has additional ones evans does not have.
this Forlan-Berbatov swap thing could gather some momentum on the caf
Evans is much quicker than Pique.
Here here!
I don't know chief.. Maybe it's because Pique's size making him look slow, Evan's is slightly shorter and slimmer making him look more mobile maybe ?
Wouldn't laugh at it though.
Wouldn't laugh at it though.
Forlan Rooney would work better than Rooney-Berbatov for a couple of seasons, and even if it was a straight swap hypothetically, we'd be the ones with the better deal. Never going to happen though in a million years, but muppets can dream
pique at United looked slow and I think the mistake against Bolton sort of finished his career here, as he wasn't trusted after that and decided to go back home.
and you are going over-board in under-rating evans and over-rating pique with your statements here. pique might well be a better player but that doesn't means evans is light-years behind him. and for a defender technical ability is tackling and distribution (and there are others too, but that has to do more with positional experience than technical ability)(while evans is quite behind pique in distribution, he is well ahead when it comes to tackling)
Pique the slow defender with a large turning circle, is a caf myth that wont die because he doesnt play for us anymore. If you watch him play for Barcelona you'd have seen him beat plenty of fast players in a foot race. Not every time, but lots of times. And he's shown his turning circle is good enough to make fools of defenders and goalkeepers in the opponent's area. Very few CBs can say the same.
I clicked a Forlan thread and ended up seeing Pique and Evans argument. I genuinely thought I'd click the wrong link then.
The last two goals and the one at 2.27 are sheer quality. The thing is Diego had the tools but was lacking the composure as all young strikers do and to make matters worse he came into a side that was playing with a lone forward who during the time that Diego was here never really got injured and was so prolific such that he was always one of the first names on the team sheet. Call it circumstances but that move to Villareal has proved to be one of the most unselfish decision ever taken by Fergie for it allowed all parties considered to benefit.
I am elated for him, he was always a nice guy, had the right attitude, never complained and worked his socks off for the team at all times as demonstrated during the game in which he continued to play in biting conditions without his shirt on. Cracking lad
People talking about resigning Forlan.
And what do these people suggest we do we Hernandez who has been signed to present a similar threat to the kind that Diego poses now?
And what do these people suggest we do we Hernandez who has been signed to present a similar threat to the kind that Diego poses now?
People talking about resigning Forlan.
And what do these people suggest we do we Hernandez who has been signed to present a similar threat to the kind that Diego poses now?
He's really nothing like Forlan. Forlan scores a large amount of his goals from shots outside the box (You'll find it hard to find a striker who scores more from out there). Hernandez "goal hangs" and scores poacher efforts.
Ekeke is totally accurate here.... can you explain how in any way Hernandez is similar to Forlan ?
Thats a pretty simplistic analysis of both players as Henandez does not goal hang and has poacher instincts but is not simply a poacher. As for scoring outside the area nobody on this forum has seen enough of Hernandez to know whether this is a strength he has(if you watch you tube clips of his greatest goals you will see one cracking long range effort from the edge of the box on the turn).
Diego might score alot of his goals from outside the box but that doesn't mean that he doesn't like Hernandez play on the shoulder of the defence for large periods of the game. He has as much of a poachers instinct as Henandez seems to have. Talking about the type of goals they seem to score most of doesn't accurately describe the type of overall player they are also if you watch alot of the youtube videos of hernandez goals you will see him taking part in alot of the build up to his goals as well as finishing so he is hardly a typical poacher.
In short as mobile pacy forwards who play on the shoulder of a defence and have excellent poacher instincts they are both similar.
There are several posters who know him from the Meixcan league. Stop assuming you've seen him/other players as much as everybody else.
Forlan does it all, he can drop deep and play as the link or he can be on the shoulder of the defence. At his best he attacks from a bit deeper so that he can let his shots fly.
Hernandez is the opposite and always looks to lead the attacks from the front, getting in the right position to finish chances. He's far more like Michael Owen than he is Diego Forlan. He and Forlan would make quite a balanced partnership and thats because they are not alike in terms of the areas of the pitch they best play in. The only similarity is that they are both two footed.
Forlan does it all, he can drop deep and play as the link or he can be on the shoulder of the defence. At his best he attacks from a bit deeper so that he can let his shots fly.
Hernandez is the opposite and always looks to lead the attacks from the front, getting in the right position to finish chances. He's far more like Michael Owen than he is Diego Forlan. He and Forlan would make quite a balanced partnership and thats because they are not alike in terms of the areas of the pitch they best play in. The only similarity is that they are both two footed.
Yes again you are assuming and then accusing me of doing the same. You can't have possibly seen enougth of him to make the kind of judgements you are making, and whereas i'm taking my views of his style of play mostly from journalists in the know(world soccer magazine has done 2 good but brief pieces on him) you are simply assuming he can't play any differently than what you have seen in 10 second goal buildups in youtube clips. here are some points:
1. how do you know Henandez doesn't have a similarly powerful shot?
2. There is plenty of fotage of him playing a very intelligent part in the build up to goals, why would you feel he was simply a poacher or "goal hanger" as you put it.?
3. Yes Forlan can drop deep but it isn't where you would want to see him for the majority of 90mins as he is much better in and around the penalty box poaching goals as he was against Fulham in the Europa cup final.
Forlan has had better games than against Fulham. He has terrorised la liga from 30-25 yards out. There is no striker better in the modern game at shooting from distance, right foot or left foot it doesnt matter. He's as dangerous as Lampard if you dont close him down.
Thats not Javier Hernandez. Absolutely not. He's very much a box striker. Yes he links up well with team mates, but Michael Owen has done the same for us.
Thats not Javier Hernandez. Absolutely not. He's very much a box striker. Yes he links up well with team mates, but Michael Owen has done the same for us.
Some cracking goals there.
You could not have seen enough of him to work out that he doesn't have a powerful shot. Also you have to remember that Forlan plays at club level with Aguero who is a forward well known for dropping deep to find space and making runs from there and so this requires Forlan to spend large parts of his game at club level leading the line. Not that Aguero can't lead the line as he does for brief periods within games when forlan decides to switch and drops deep but he doesn't do it for as long and as effectively over 90mins as Diego does.
The simple fact of the matter is that Forlan can and very often does play as a poacher which is what you claim Hernandez is, I am saying that yes he has poacher instincts but there is more to his game than simply that.
Maybe we will have to reserve a little bit of judgement till after todays game but the simple fact of the matter is I don't think SAF bought him simply to be a poacher its more likely he would want a more rounded player which Javier is.
There are plenty of players with powerful shots. That doesnt mean they'll score 12 league goals a season from outside the box. Thats how Forlan is. Figuring that Hernandez will be similar because he smashes one left footed shot in from outside the box in a youtube video, well thats a bad idea. If you made a video of John O'Shea you could include his left footed chip against Arsenal and after watching the video. It doesnt mean he's going to do it for you time and again, or often.
Atletico often play with both their forwards deep and being involved in play. They score a lot of goals from counterattacks rather than constant pressure and crosses into the box. But whereas Aguero often peels into the channels, or starts from the channels, Forlan is the one popping up 30 yards from goal in the middle of the pitch. You dont have to have a striker occupying the penalty area all the time and in Atletico's case, there are lots of occasions when nobody is.
Saha is a better comparison imo because he was leading the line 90% of the time, even though he pulled wide at times. And he scored a variety of goals, some outside the box. And like Hernandez, one of his main dangers was his huge leap and heading ability. But nowhere near as dangerous as Forlan is outside the box.
Atletico often play with both their forwards deep and being involved in play. They score a lot of goals from counterattacks rather than constant pressure and crosses into the box. But whereas Aguero often peels into the channels, or starts from the channels, Forlan is the one popping up 30 yards from goal in the middle of the pitch. You dont have to have a striker occupying the penalty area all the time and in Atletico's case, there are lots of occasions when nobody is.
Saha is a better comparison imo because he was leading the line 90% of the time, even though he pulled wide at times. And he scored a variety of goals, some outside the box. And like Hernandez, one of his main dangers was his huge leap and heading ability. But nowhere near as dangerous as Forlan is outside the box.
Sorry BAMSOLA, it is not wrong to get your imaginations working... but for now, please know that Forlan is world class at hitting long shots... He's proven year in year out that he scores goals outside the box CONSISTENTLY...
Hernandez is yet very far from that level, so concluding him different to Forlan should be the case right now as at least most of the goals he's scored so far have been inside the penalty box.
Who knows he's potential though, but he ain't similar to Forlan as of yet...
Hernandez is yet very far from that level, so concluding him different to Forlan should be the case right now as at least most of the goals he's scored so far have been inside the penalty box.
Who knows he's potential though, but he ain't similar to Forlan as of yet...
Hernandez is clearly nothing like Diego....it doesn't take a doctorate from World Soccer magazine to work that out. Just watching him.
Haven't you been eating by a fecking lion yet?!!!!!
The only reason they did that was because they got first team football, so what could we have done to remedy that?
Play Rooney ahead of Van Nistelrooy/Rooney? Played Pique ahead of Rio/Vidic?
Nahhhhhh. You're clutching at straws to give yourself any reason to be negative again.
Don't mind Bamsola, he's just wildly optimistic about unknown quantities.
See this: https://www.redcafe.net/f6/why-manucho-answer-229987/
See this: https://www.redcafe.net/f6/why-manucho-answer-229987/
I was thinking about writing the same but knew I would be asked to justify my position in detail and frankly couldn't be arsed.
It's bleeding obvious, but go explain the obvious to someone who doesn't see it and you are in for a long frustrating exchange.
forlan to replace rooney
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11854/7753524/Inter-confirm-Forlan-approach
Thought i'd bump this. Seems he could be on his way out of Inter. Not heard much from him this season with them.
Thought i'd bump this. Seems he could be on his way out of Inter. Not heard much from him this season with them.
You can't really judge anything off of his time with us because he was still yong and lernin', nor his time with Inter because they were in complete disarray (and to an extent he's on the wane), but it does make you wonder if he just wasn't suited to being one of many very good players in a top side. Everywhere else he's always been one of the two most important players in the side and was given licence to do as he pleased in a lot of ways.