Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful

Slops said:
Is there anything in football's rules that actually allows for a booking in this case?
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That's an interesting question, actually.

As far as I know, the ref can't book anyone before the whistle has been blown. A player can be disciplined for whatever reason prior to kick-off, but it wouldn't count as having happened during the match itself (logically enough).

And I can't think of any examples offhand where a player has done something pre-match that would be equivalent to an in-game booking/yellow card. Equivalent to a direct red - yes, that has happened: in which case, the player is simply denied to start the game and replaced by another player (again: this doesn't count as being an in-game incident, so the player's team will not start with ten men).

It would be odd, to put it like that, if a captain walks onto the pitch with clearly visible armband and then, immediately after the ref has blown the whistle, he stops the match in order to book said captain for wearing an inappropriate item (or whatever the technical term for this offence would be).
 
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BD said:
That's what was gonna make this, originally token, gesture actually worthwhile. The idea of being shown a yellow card for supporting equal rights. And then if they went and wore the armbands again, and got booked again - even better.

Now they're just making it clear that they support the cause, up until the point where they may actually come up against some sort of pressure.
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They are there to play football. They can't even wear an armband if they're banned. These players had nothing to do with the corrupt feck faces that sold this competition to Qatar 12 years ago, they've had as much word in it as we have. They are sportspeople who's entire horizon often doesn't exceed their own sport. This is the main event of their life (for many a once in a lifetime opportunity) and they've already had it basically ruined by the corrupt feck faces by any reasonable standard (Qatar being Qatar). Now you're asking them to sit out the possibly deciding match, and if they don't it was all just a "token gesture". Do you donate your entire income or does you not doing so make any donation you have ever made a "token gesture" to be ridiculed?
 
Roane said:
I'm not trying to be vague or disingenuous. The questions you pose are not yes and no questions.

But here you go

Sodomy is a sin/illegal. Same sex is a sin/illegal.

There is no punishment, by the people/ruler etc if it's not open and public. This is the same for all sex and genders.

If there is to be a punishment then this can vary too. See hadud laws.

That's not me being evasive. Conditions have to be met for certain punishments. However the ultimate penalty would be death
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You'll forgive me if I have absolutely zero respect for people who believe this should be my fate.
 
The protest stops the second FIFA or the sponsors's protest begins. Strong statement.

Back to the very powerful, '♡*starting a conversation♡*ﾟ', sponsor and FIFA approved knee.
 
hp88 said:
So FIFA also have a LGBT armband? This makes no sense for both parties really, your both pro something so just wear what ever the feck you want.
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But FIFA’s LGBT armband is probably sponsored by Budweiser, and so they wouldn’t want that advertising income to be threatened by a rival non-corporate LGBT armband
 
Roane said:
I'm not trying to be vague or disingenuous. The questions you pose are not yes and no questions.

But here you go

Sodomy is a sin/illegal. Same sex is a sin/illegal.

There is no punishment, by the people/ruler etc if it's not open and public. This is the same for all sex and genders.

If there is to be a punishment then this can vary too. See hadud laws.

That's not me being evasive. Conditions have to be met for certain punishments. However the ultimate penalty would be death
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Would you invite an openly gay person into your home?
 
do.ob said:
It's of coure up to everyone personally how much they want to invest into a cause, but maybe they shouldn't have played themselves up as curageous defenders of human rights and equality if they end up backing down at the first hurdle.. Some of these players getting sent-off or missing games, largely meaningless groupstage games at that, would have sent a message louder than any other they could come up with and etched the farcical status of this WC into eternity, as "that one time backwards laws impacted the integrity of the competition".
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True and I would love it. I'm just saying on a human level I have a understanding for someone who works towards a goal for much of his life not to have that possibly taken (say in a 3rd game decider) because otherwise he isn't "committed enough".
 
Roane said:
I'm not trying to be vague or disingenuous. The questions you pose are not yes and no questions.

But here you go

Sodomy is a sin/illegal. Same sex is a sin/illegal.

There is no punishment, by the people/ruler etc if it's not open and public. This is the same for all sex and genders.

If there is to be a punishment then this can vary too. See hadud laws.

That's not me being evasive. Conditions have to be met for certain punishments. However the ultimate penalty would be death
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And what do you think then? I had same-sex 'relations' last week - would you support me being punished for that, if it came to it? And what punishment would be appropriate? A slap on the wrist? A bit of a beating? Some amputation? Death? Don't tell me what could hypothetically happen under laws of others - tell me where you would stand and where the line would be between 'acceptable punishment' and 'too far'.
 
philipos said:
Try and be a Christian openly in Qatar, Saudi, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen etc …… probably most of your 50 countries and see what happens. So don’t you dare talk about human rights and ignore this hypocrisy.
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The only thing relevant in this World Cup forum is Qatar - there are several Christian churches in Doha

Here for example reviews of Church of our Lady of the Rosary
https://g.co/kgs/GPBmUB

Have reported your post for blatant lies and Islamophobia
 
Roane said:
I'm not trying to be vague or disingenuous. The questions you pose are not yes and no questions.
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It’s how your posts regularly come across and I believe it’s the source of some of the frustration posters on here feel when engaging with you on these topics.

Sodomy is a sin/illegal. Same sex is a sin/illegal.

There is no punishment, by the people/ruler etc if it's not open and public. This is the same for all sex and genders.

If there is to be a punishment then this can vary too. See hadud laws.

That's not me being evasive. Conditions have to be met for certain punishments. However the ultimate penalty would be death
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Thank you, that is considerably less ambiguous, although the bolded could probably still do with further clarification.
 
Abizzz said:
Being banned from your job for a third of the time is hardly the smallest of obstructions.
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Has there been harsher punishments announced? A yellow card for wearing a pride armband is a very small price to pay.

@2mufc0 True! To be fair all the ads for this and the end racism campaign is all the same, marketing.
 
philipos said:
Try and be a Christian openly in Qatar, Saudi, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen etc …… probably most of your 50 countries and see what happens. So don’t you dare talk about human rights and ignore this hypocrisy.
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Are you ok?
 
Yeah, let's get on with football.

It's really important and stuff. Football.
 
Abizzz said:
They are there to play football. They can't even wear an armband if they're banned. These players had nothing to do with the corrupt feck faces that sold this competition to Qatar 12 years ago, they've had as much word in it as we have. They are sportspeople who's entire horizon often doesn't exceed their own sport. This is the main event of their life (for many a once in a lifetime opportunity) and they've already had it basically ruined by the corrupt feck faces by any reasonable standard (Qatar being Qatar). Now you're asking them to sit out the possibly deciding match, and if they don't it was all just a "token gesture". Do you donate your entire income or does you not doing so make any donation you have ever made a "token gesture" to be ridiculed?
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Look, in general I don't really have anything against the players playing the WC in Qatar - as you say, it's often the main event they've worked towards their whole life. Fine. But then don't talk about supporting equal rights and acting like you're going to be strong and take a stance, only to buckle under the first bit of pressure. Plus, I wouldn't solely blame Kane, or any player. More the FAs.
 
FIFA have a No Discrimination armband which, given in the context of both FIFA and other public figures saying it’s not fair to impose our own politics on Qatar, comes across as more of an All Lives Matter distractionary/watered down tactic that attempts to silence the real message about equality and fairness. FIFA have been so far up Qatar’s arse recently that it’s clear that when FIFA talk it comes out of Qatar’s mouth.

Yes, I get that football shouldn’t be political (if we’re going with the facile argument that saying “basic human rights should be universal” is political) but what’s not political about a sporting organisation saying they’ll take a decision for a referee before a match to yellow card someone wearing an armband that raises awareness about LGBT rights?

The players are there to just play football? They’re there to represent their countries, that why the flags are on their jerseys. That’s why the national anthems are performed before the matches. Currently the national FAs are telling us that they will only pay lip service to social causes. When they take the knee before the match is that now going to be an equally empty gesture?

The folk on 5Live are lapping it up. “FIFA have stepped in and made the English FA see sense. Now the players won’t be forced to do something they probably didn’t want to do in the first place.” The players haven’t got a choice anymore, have they?
 
Hope at least one captain takes it upon themselves and wears it anyway. Mainly as a protest to Fifa now, make Fifa book someone and take the bad publicity.
 
2cents said:
Honestly, like many of your posts on these topics it comes across as deliberately vague and disingenuous. You haven’t directly answered the question, which should be quite simple.

I’ll rephrase it - in a hypothetical ideal Islamic state with “100% Islam” as you put it, according to you is consensual sex between two adults of the same gender legal or illegal? And if illegal, what if anything is the appropriate punishment?
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There are many different Islamic teachings. But I think it's exhibitionism that is punishable. It's not as straightforward as the bible, that says in Leviticus 20:13.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

You'll not find something like this in the Quran. But you'll probably find the same and worse in some other Muslim scriptures, ones that aren't shared by most Muslims.
 
duffer said:
If Gareth wears a rainbow waistcoat I'd give him 2 more years in the job.
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The managers and coaching staff of these teams walk out of the tunnel and put their armbands on. They aren't going on the pitch are they. If they book or send them of FIFA will look even worse if that is actually possible.
 
Who is going to take a hit and do a Kanye styled Harry Kane doesn't care about LGBT people line on live tv? My money is on Martin O'Neil.
 
Fecking cowardly twats. They shouldn't have been asking Fifa to wipe their arses in the first place.

Make a fecking statement. Don't beg on your hands and knees.

If you don't want to then fine don't but don't sing and dance about how important this is to you, then at the first waging finger run back to daddy Fifa and your corporate sponsors.

https://cached.imagescaler.hbpl.co....flinehbpl.hbpl.co.uk/news/OMC/Black-Power.jpg
 
BD said:
And what do you think then? I had same-sex 'relations' last week - would you support me being punished for that, if it came to it? And what punishment would be appropriate? A slap on the wrist? A bit of a beating? Some amputation? Death? Don't tell me what could hypothetically happen under laws of others - tell me where you would stand and where the line would be between 'acceptable punishment' and 'too far'.
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It’s not worth it, mate. It’s best if we just move on, discuss the main core arguments, you Snapchat me some of the pictures from our meet up last week, and we go about our day.
 
Tibs said:
‘We support LGBT rights’

‘OK but you’re going to get a yellow card’

‘What armband we weren’t serious lol’

- Shows how much courage you need to stand up for what you believe in, in real life - not online or social media.
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It also shows they don't really believe in anything (what a surprise, when we have ZERO gay players out of the closet in Europe top leagues). They were just using it as a publicity stunt for themselves. Apparently the publicity was worth some money, but not worth one meaningless yellow card....
 
Should have just put the shirt numbers as rainbow. If it’s part of the kit and there’s no “political” writing on it, then what would Fifa be able to do.
 
Pintu said:
There are many different Islamic teachings. But I think it's exhibitionism that is punishable. It's not as straightforward as the bible, that says in Leviticus 20:13.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

You'll not find something like this in the Quran. But you'll probably find the same and worse in some other Muslim scriptures, ones that aren't shared by most Muslims.
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Yes I’m aware of the standard traditional “orthodox” approaches to the issue, and the history and process of the formation and execution of Islamic law generally. Just looking to clarify that particular poster’s approach to the issue as without clarity people are left to assume things on his behalf.
 
I am quite amazed that everyone is still engaging with this dude. Reading his posts and responses it feels like trying to have a discussion with a brick wall.
 
These are seriously fecking shit people. They're going to be out there on their knees in a gesture made famous by a sportsman who took a stand and suffered severly career-wise because of it, but these same cowards won't take a yellow card in an already much maligned tournament. This is actually what virtue signalling is.

https://boxing-guru.com/app/uploads/2020/08/Ali-Stripped.jpg
 
We will probably see something along the lines of Goretzka's "heart" against Hungary and they will pat themselves on their backs.
 
Cloud7 said:
I am quite amazed that everyone is still engaging with this dude. Reading his posts and responses it feels like trying to have a discussion with a brick wall.
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I used to practice my tennis swings against a brick wall as a kid. It feels natural to me.
 
FA chief executive Mark Bullingham has previously stated England are prepared to be fined for wearing the ‘OneLove’ armband in their fight for equality.

“I think there’s a possibility that we might be fined. And if we are, then we’ll pay the fine.

“We think it’s really important to show our values. And that’s what we’ll be doing.

“It’s sad for us that quite a few of our LGBTQ fans have decided not to come and I know a lot of our Three Lions Pride members are not coming.”
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Right. As long as doing so only results in paying an insignificant fine.

To those who like to hunt for hypocrisy everywhere, here it is. Actual, genuine hypocrisy.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
It’s not worth it, mate. It’s best if we just move on, discuss the main core arguments, you Snapchat me some of the pictures from our meet up last week, and we go about our day.
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Next time I'll get some photos for you ;)

Plus I kinda want to get a concrete answer from him...wish me luck.

Cloud7 said:
I am quite amazed that everyone is still engaging with this dude. Reading his posts and responses it feels like trying to have a discussion with a brick wall.
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I've thought the same the last few weeks, but the ambiguity and condescension was getting too frustrating.
 
Abizzz said:
Then you basically let Qatar decide that captaining your country means nothing.
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Well not really but it would have been an easy way around this nonsense and brought a lot of attention to the fact that Qatar really didn't want these arm bands worn, which would shine a light on their attitudes for the whole world to see.
 
Disappointed .. I’d be more proud of Bale if he wore it knowing the risks.

But “disappointed” doesn’t even come close to the sheer contempt I have for FIFA and Infantino. Preach about inclusion when all they’re interested in is money and keeping Qatar happy… scum. My only positive is this might mean more of a challenge to replace Infantino and hopefully (when he’s gone) an investigation.

It takes a lot to diminish my love of football but he’s having a real good go at it. Tw@t.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63699477
 
Dan_F said:
Should have just put the shirt numbers as rainbow. If it’s part of the kit and there’s no “political” writing on it, then what would Fifa be able to do.
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Several things could have been done, including your idea. But it's clear now that it was just a token gesture all along and they were just waiting for FIFA to put an end to that as well
 
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