Flamini

Trionz said:
winning trophies by being a part-not really required-player, my friend.
You keep forgetting that.

No, they don't get endorsements. They are just average, who cares about them kinda players.
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Not winning a trophy and not having competed for a while have had an effect.You're only seeing this from your gooner perspective and not from the player's.
Each player has his reasons and I can't help but feel surprised that some fans seem so sure why this or that player left for.
You might wanna read this
http://www.footylatest.com/flamini-left-arsenal-to-win-the-champions-league-with-milan/3864
 
kouroux said:
Not winning a trophy and not having competed for a while have had an effect.You're only seeing this from your gooner perspective and not from the player's.
Each player has his reasons and I can't help but feel surprised that some fans seem so sure why this or that player left for.
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whatever you typed here is relevant to what you quoted in what manner?

And aren't you guys the one who claimed Flamini left for trophies?

Talk about hypocrisy
 
Trionz said:
whatever you typed here is relevant to what you quoted in what manner?

And aren't you guys the one who claimed Flamini left for trophies?

Talk about hypocrisy
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Read the link I posted and maybe somehow you'll tell me that Flamini's intention were something else ....

Trionz said:
How is his International career coming about after winning the League, Kouroux?
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He's never been good enough to play for France.Whether he was at Arsenal or Milan
 
The ex-Arsenal midfielder Mathieu Flamini has no regrets about leaving Arsenal to join his boyhood team, AC Milan, and he has talked about his desire to win a Champions League trophy with the Italian side.

“I want to win the Champions League,” he told the BBC. “I came here because of Milan’s history in the competition and I want to win that trophy so much.

“Obviously I also want to win the Scudetto and become one of the club’s top players.

“I will work hard and do everything in my power to achieve those objectives.”

“I have supported Milan since I was very young so people must realise how it is very special for me to play for this club,” the Frenchman said.

“My dad is Italian and I have lots of family here. I can visit them and I can speak Italian now so it has made it easier for us to be in contact.

“They are all very proud of me and it has brought us closer. It was a big move for me and I am happy as a person and as a footballer.”

AC Milan have qualified for next seasons Champions League, when it is possible that they could meet Arsenal at some time. But his old club are just two games away from lifting the trophy!
 
Losing in a final will always be worse than winning it despite not contributing.Whichever you look at it, losing is not better than winning
 
How about this part
“I want to win the Champions League,” he told the BBC. “I came here because of Milan’s history in the competition and I want to win that trophy so much.

“Obviously I also want to win the Scudetto and become one of the club’s top players.

“I will work hard and do everything in my power to achieve those objectives.”


There you see, he left to win trophies (among other things). Keep convincing yourself of something else.
 
kouroux said:
Losing in a final will always be worse than winning it despite not contributing.Whichever you look at it, losing is not better than winning
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tell that to Hleb.

and yeah Flamini won it with Milan.
He didn't even reached The Finals.

Scudetto is so much inferior than PL.

And even then he is a part player.
 
Can I just say.... I'd take him at United on a free. He'd do as a stop gap solution providing some defensive cover in midfield.

If he can find the form that got him the move to Milan then he'd be a very good option to have.
 
That was ages ago. He never did enough to become first choice for that Milan team either. He's nowhere near the player he once was. He'll join a mid table club. Hleb mk II
 
kouroux said:
So what ? He can't want to win the CL at another club then just because he lost one with Arsenal ??
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that just proves your claim of need of medals was not at all founded.

While you were accusing me of being judgemental of his decisions, btw. You hypocrite.
 
You're just bitter and angry that he left you and even got to win a trophy and your team hasn't since then.
"Tell that to Hleb" ... we were discussing Flamini.So tell me again why did he leave Arsenal for ?
 
Trionz said:
that just proves your claim of need of medals was not at all founded.

While you were accusing me of being judgemental of his decisions, btw. You hypocrite.
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I didn't make a generalization, I precisely said that a player would prefer to win trophies while taking part of the campaign to win it rather than play extremely well and stay without trophies for several seasons in a row.
I repeatedly said that each situation was different, that there isn't just one truth with footballers.
I didn't claim anything, just said gave a personal opinion unlike you who was so sure of Flamini's intention for leaving Arsenal.
You, on the other hand, you resort to insults and you don't even have the balls to concede a point.
 
kouroux said:
You're just bitter and angry that he left you and even got to win a trophy and your team hasn't since then.
"Tell that to Hleb" ... we were discussing Flamini.So tell me again why did he leave Arsenal for ?
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Doesn't explain why you are so worked up about it.


Why did he leave?
Is it okay now to be sure of why he left?
 
kouroux said:
I didn't make a generalization, I precisely said that a player would prefer to win trophies while taking part of the campaign to win it rather than play extremely well and stay without trophies for several seasons in a row.
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And i precisely said that's a hollow achievement and many of them footballers' quote suggest the same.

I haven't seen one quote of any player who said he prefers to "win trophies while taking part of the campaign to win it rather than play extremely well and stay without trophies for several seasons in a row."


Hey wait, Is that you being "so sure of Flamini's intention at the time, Who are you to know for sure what Flamini 'prefers'?" ?

Oh My. A Hypocrite.

I repeatedly said that each situation was different, that there isn't just one truth with footballers.I didn't claim anything, just said gave a personal opinion unlike you who was so sure of Flamini's intention for leaving Arsenal.
You, on the other hand, you resort to insults and you don't even have the balls to concede a point
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All i have heard you saying in this thread is "I'm sure a player would rather win titles than be remembered.When you're a pro footballer, it's all about the titles then the recognition but if you can't win titles, recognition is meaningless"
I don't see any different situations, don't see more than one truth; that's plain generalisation, isn't it?



He's never been good enough to play for France.Whether he was at Arsenal or Milan
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:lol:
Flamini played for France when he played for Arsenal.
Surely going by your logic, when he is good enough being trophy-less, he is good enough as a Scudetto WINNER.



You, on the other hand, you resort to insults and you don't even have the balls to concede a point
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I am sorry, calling someone a Hypocrite is on a similar level of calling someone bitter.
You have passed on continual digs at my club, and all i said that you were a hypocrite which is justified; Sorry Precious.
 
All i have heard you saying in this thread is "I'm sure a player would rather win titles than be remembered.When you're a pro footballer, it's all about the titles then the recognition but if you can't win titles, recognition is meaningless"
I don't see any different situations, don't see more than one truth; that's plain generalisation, isn't it?"

But I corrected what I initially said, is the only thing I said first only working.I changed my stance a little.I said it and I'm saying it again.


:lol:
Flamini played for France when he played for Arsenal.
Surely going by your logic, when he is good enough being trophy-less, he is good enough as a Scudetto WINNER.'
Flamini playing for France was a Domenech experiment, it never worked and Flamini was out of his depth for the french national team.He got called up but that doesn't he was good enough to play for the team.

Surely going by your logic, when he is good enough being trophy-less, he is good enough as a Scudetto WINNER.
Whether he's good enough to be a Scudetto is not even something I'm interested in.Just saying he left to win trophies when he couldn't satisfy himself at Arsenal.It was a risk but in the end he partially got what he wanted.Being good enough to win a trophy is a hollow concept as any team winning them will have some average to shit players.
 
I just simply disagree with 'Flamini leaving Arsenal was a good decision, because he won a Scudetto', because that's a meaningless victory.
He won exactly one trophy which he won with Arsenal as well.
Infact with Arsenal, we had more chances of winning trophies in his stint here.

Whatever reason he left for, it didn't turn out to be successful.


Anyways, i have no issues with Flamini, never thought he was that big a player.
You can find me not calling hin names or anything anywhere.
he went there, was unlucky to be injured so often.
Good luck to him for his future.
 
Trionz said:
I just simply disagree with 'Flamini leaving Arsenal was a good decision, because he won a Scudetto', because that's a meaningless victory.
He won exactly one trophy which he won with Arsenal as well.
Infact with Arsenal, we had more chances of winning trophies in his stint here.

Whatever reason he left for, it didn't turn out to be successful.


Anyways, i have no issues with Flamini, never thought he was that big a player.
You can find me not calling hin names or anything anywhere.
he went there, was unlucky to be injured so often.
Good luck to him for his future.
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At the time he took his decision, he couldn't have known he'd only win the Scudetto (a more rewarding trophy than the FA Cup btw).The key is trying to understand his decision to leave Arsenal for Milan back then.
All in all, I apologize for any rudeness Trionz, I love to debate about football but I rarely let myself to the point of childish digs
 
And in my case, i like being rude, adds that extra bit of emotion in my post. Sorry about that.

Nice little debate Kouroux.
Lets end it here.
 
We messed Flamini about so while I was annoyed when he left I can't say I entirely blame him. The year before we tried to flog him off on the cheap and didn't offer him a new contract so I can't say I entirely blame him. Also he did the same to his home town club to join us in the first place so we shouldn't expected him to show more loyalty. However he left for because Milan they offered him a mega wage as he was coming in on a free transfer.

As for winning titles, yes he has a medal but his role in that team wasn't as big as being made out. A player gets a medal for making 10 appearances doesn't mean he played a big part in the team winning anything. And then he spent most of his time injured or on the bench for one title. Had he joined another team he might kept his French place and just look at someone like Phil Neville. I've got a lot of respect for him leaving his nice cosy environment at Man Utd and joining Everton and becoming their captain and an important player for them.
 
Trionz said:
:lol:
thankyou

"I have supported Milan since I was very young so
people must realise how it is very special for me to
play for this club"
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Hang on he was a Juve supporter until they only offered him 80K euros a week.
 
Trionz said:
And in my case, i like being rude, adds that extra bit of emotion in my post. Sorry about that.

Nice little debate Kouroux.
Lets end it here.
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Can't understand your stance Trionz. Flamini left to better himself by joining one of the biggest clubs in football. For the same reason Brendan Rodgers has just left Swansea for Liverpool.

In professional sport if you are not amongst those blessed with the highest quality, then you have to strike while the iron's hot. If Flamini had waited another seaon his chance to move to Milan may have gone, and he would have stayed at arsenal and won nothing.

Same with Rodgers, he had a great season with Swansea and off the back of that has been offered a big job. Had he waited another year, Swansea may have fared much worse and his chance for a shot at the big time would have gone.Flamini won trophies he never would have won and possibly had he not moved when he did, he may never have had the opportunity again to play for a side capable of winning such trophies.
 
Arsenal fans really get there knickers in a twist when it comes to discussing players that left them and went on to win some silverware :lol::lol:

Hmmm, I wonder why? :smirk::wenger:
 
Flamini's yet another player whose performances went downhill fast when he left Arsenal.
 
apotheosis said:
Can't understand your stance Trionz. Flamini left to better himself by joining one of the biggest clubs in football. For the same reason Brendan Rodgers has just left Swansea for Liverpool.

In professional sport if you are not amongst those blessed with the highest quality, then you have to strike while the iron's hot. If Flamini had waited another seaon his chance to move to Milan may have gone, and he would have stayed at arsenal and won nothing.

Same with Rodgers, he had a great season with Swansea and off the back of that has been offered a big job. Had he waited another year, Swansea may have fared much worse and his chance for a shot at the big time would have gone.Flamini won trophies he never would have won and possibly had he not moved when he did, he may never have had the opportunity again to play for a side capable of winning such trophies.
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Should Robson have left United during our lean years? Some say he was better than Keane, someone with that sort of talent should have won more. How about Ruud?

It's not like Flamini and Hleb were instrumental in helping Milan and Barcelona win trophies, they just jumped on the train. How that is admirable I don't know.
 
adexkola said:
Should Robson have left United during our lean years? Some say he was better than Keane, someone with that sort of talent should have won more. How about Ruud?

It's not like Flamini and Hleb were instrumental in helping Milan and Barcelona win trophies, they just jumped on the train. How that is admirable I don't know.
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Hleb's contribution was null but Flamini played some matches (therefore played part in Milan winning the title)and got injured many times, he still won a league title.
It was either that or stay at Arsenal for four years and still be trophy less
 
adexkola said:
Should Robson have left United during our lean years? Some say he was better than Keane, someone with that sort of talent should have won more. How about Ruud?

It's not like Flamini and Hleb were instrumental in helping Milan and Barcelona win trophies, they just jumped on the train. How that is admirable I don't know.
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Did you miss this part of my original post?

'In professional sport if you are not amongst those blessed with the highest quality, then you have to strike while the iron's hot.'

When you are already at one of the biggest clubs why move? You missed the point entirely. The point was when average players have a purple patch in their careers it sometimes elevates their standing so they get offers from big clubs. If they don't move then, the opportunity to play for one of the big guns may never come again.

Sorry, but Arsenal are just not in that elite bracket, and in that regard you simply cannot compare them to a club like Utd.
 
Trionz said:
Oh we are defining exceptions now, are we?

Someone above suggested it was an uphill task considering there were Gattuso, Pirlo and Ambrossini already there. Also Seedorf.

But okay, Flamini is not an idiot because he had faith in his abilities; but Hleb can't believe in his abilities because?
Barca squad back at start of 2008 was just getting moulded, there was no Pedro in that squad, Henry was played out wide, Barca were facing 3 barren years.
But somehow Hleb is an idiot & Flamini is not; because he played whole 65 times in 4years.

Even when Flamini was fit, he wasn't first choice.
Often shifted to LB.

No matter what the fact is, you guys are not able to comprehend the attention factor, when the said player is gifted a trophy he doesn't deserve.
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He was actually shifted to right back.
He played 100 times in 4 years. 1 of those years he spent injured.
 
I dont think either of Flamini or Hleb made great career choices. Hleb actually admitted that. Its well and good saying Flamini get a winners medal but his contribution to the success is what counts.
 
kouroux said:
Losing in a final will always be worse than winning it despite not contributing.Whichever you look at it, losing is not better than winning
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I have to disagree with this. I personally would much rather play a large role in a team that goes on to lose the final rather than be a non-factor in a team that wins the final.

Winning when you are not playing is hollow, as you have not deserved to win anything. Look at Pinto, the Barcelona reserve keeper who rarely gets an important game - he looks like an absolute idiot when he goes over the top with his celebrations.
 
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