Fergie’s the problem!

Grande said:
Contradiction par excellence: the club chops and changes managers looking for the new Ferguson, and holds onto managers for too long because it worked with Ferguson.
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But this point is correct, it's happening right now.
 
Grande said:
It makes a kind of sense but isn’t much true, as with most of what Liew writes. A pink panther makes sense but does not exist outside of fiction. Liew’s normal act is to make something out of nothing in order to pose as ‘critical journalist rooted in common sense with an eye for the surprising connection missed by others’. So much for the

This is particularily bad, even for Liew’s standards. You can go sentence by sentence to see how everything that appears like an argument is based on nothing or on contradiction.

Evra talks to Ferguson in a crisis: Evidence that Evra thinks it’s ‘nothing untoward with going’ behind the back of Moyes? It’s a crisis, for chrissakes. Had he though it was nothing untoward about it, he’d come sooner. Evidence that Ferguson holds a great unofficial power at Utd, ten years later? Because the impulsive maverick Patrice Evra thought so, ten years ago? Evidence that Ferguson influenced the manager situation at Old Trafford? When the ‘evidence’ consists of Ferguson declining Evra, explicitly saying he will not interfere in any way, that’s a tall order.

this is just the first paragraph, and it goes like this, sentence by sentence. Particularily strained hypothesies: United having four completely different managers (not counting Giggs) in eight years is evidence they are blinkered by trying to get ‘a new Ferguson’ argument? That Ferguson had something in common with each of them! I’d love to see Liew dig up the perfect candidate: A blinkered idealist who hates winning, has no working ethos or experience, is tactically disinterested, can’t handle people and knows nothing about the club culture or history. If s/he ticks all those boxes, s/he will finally be clean of the destructive ‘Fergusonism’.

Evidences of toxic Fergusonism: He is respected at the club. He has an unofficial parking space. He has once said in a private converstion with a Russion fighter that Ronaldo should start vs Everton. He looked dejected when Utd where 0-5 down to Liverpool at OT. He fitted his club suit at OT.

Examples of Fergusonism that must be done away with in a cultural cleansing(!): No more official match day dresses. Players must not have a quiz as part of team building. No more play with two wingers (How many games have we played with two wingers these last eight years?!).

Contradiction par excellence: the club chops and changes managers looking for the new Ferguson, and holds onto managers for too long because it worked with Ferguson.

Liews solution: A cultural reboot giving a young manager time to rebuild the club from academy up. Oh and sack the young manager rebooting the club building from the academy up if he doesn’t win the league in two seasons. Or if the club culture have any likenesses with any previous winning culture at the club. Because that would be Fergusonism.
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Good post. It's a bit of a mess of an article, to be honest - not at all familiar with this writer but this is poor stuff.

Especially that bit about all four of Ferguson's successors being some attempt to replicate him: you can come up with that bollocks to retro-fit a narrative for literally any manager in the world. About the only actual point in there is one we've known since at least the early Van Gaal days: all our ex-players in the media right now that only ever played under Ferguson are too in love with the idea of "giving the manager time". That doesn't apply to the board.
 
Fergie's far from the problem, He helped massively with the win over the weekend, got rid of Pogba again and finally gave Maguire and Shaw the bolloxing they
needed.


 
Brexit_Brigade said:
Good post. It's a bit of a mess of an article, to be honest - not at all familiar with this writer but this is poor stuff.

Especially that bit about all four of Ferguson's successors being some attempt to replicate him: you can come up with that bollocks to retro-fit a narrative for literally any manager in the world. About the only actual point in there is one we've known since at least the early Van Gaal days: all our ex-players in the media right now that only ever played under Ferguson are too in love with the idea of "giving the manager time". That doesn't apply to the board.
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I agree there is a tendency in many of the Old Guard to wield the manager’s need time opinion - particularily those that have been managers themselves (and been in the position of needing that time …). At the same time, they have the tendency that fans and retired experts have - of wanting to take the wheels at signs of trouble but not knowing the details of the situation and not having the means to influence the club, frequently expressing ‘problems’ with this that and the other that end up heaped on the manager’s head anyway. Gary Neville and Rio Ferdinand are good examples. Love the club, advocate for Solskjær, yet come regularily with verdicts that indirectly hurts Solskjær (and United’s) needs for United. These are much more influential than Ferguson, because they influence the media and the fans who influence the sponsors and the board.
 
He’s not the problem. But he’s also not part of the solution. Ever since SAF retired, football has gone through one of its biggest revolutions in decades. Analytics is taking over more and more aspects of managing and the game itself and the best managers of today, work accordingly. Ferguson basically retired once this revolution started. Since then, the game has become quite different, yet Ferguson, an old and extremely accomplished man, hasn’t. Which is not a criticism towards him. He has any right to sit back and relax.
The issue is, when the word of a person like him still holds this much weight, and said person isn’t really up to date anymore, their advice becomes less and less useful, especially when being sought out by those, who don’t understand the game and it’s recent changes this well themselves.
I don’t think he’s giving bad advice. I believe he sees some actual qualities in OGS that are definitely there. Especially regarding man management. If I wanted opinions on a coaches man management, I’d value his input very highly. But coaches these days need additional qualities SAF might not be the best judge of. The fault however lies with those who want the advice. They are unable to put it into context and make the right decisions based on it. They should understand how the advice from someone like SAF is to be understood and used. They just don’t.
 
Gavinb33 said:
Good parts about the coaching and Ferguson.

I take umbrage at Telles had a good game against Villareal the man was given an absolute chastening experience by Danjuma and was lucky we didn't concede more specially in the 1st half.

That article and many of them since we lost to Liverpool fail to take into account the 5 years prior to Ole coming in we did try and move away from Ferguson with Jose and LvG neither were welded to any sort of romantic notion of the United DNA or whatever buzz word you feel like attributing to this phenom and neither worked, now it could be and rightly be argued that neither man should have been employed by the club, but then that leaves very much the same question we are in now who should it be and why?. I don't believe just saying manager x is a winner is reason enough to give them job without some over arching football philosophy in the back ground, these pundits have said for so long United need this and implementing this does take time unless you have bottomless cash and now its a very much rip it up half way through and give the keys to manager x and let him do something very different to what the over arching plan might be.
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Dalot was the one who got torn apart that game. Telles was on the other side. Dalot could not handle Danjuma.

Also, in fairness, LvG and Mourinho were finished by the time they came to us, or as for Mourinho, you could say his time here finished him. Someone like Ten Hag, Conte or Zidane evidently isn’t finished. We need to get them, this world class squad is crying out for some tactical nous.
 
Nevilles.Wear.Prada said:
"You get behind your manager.."

What have you done sir..?
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He is our greatest ever manager but he's not beyond criticism and that speech after the Swansea game about backing the next manager should never have happened and he also shouldn't have picked his successor either
 
ivaldo said:
I was at the 0-5 hammering and it certainly wasn't silent.
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MalaysianRed7 said:
Dalot was the one who got torn apart that game. Telles was on the other side. Dalot could not handle Danjuma.

Also, in fairness, LvG and Mourinho were finished by the time they came to us, or as for Mourinho, you could say his time here finished him. Someone like Ten Hag, Conte or Zidane evidently isn’t finished. We need to get them, this world class squad is crying out for some tactical nous.
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Apologies it was Dalot.

The last part wasn't just aimed at you just an actual musing.

I agree with you on Ten Hag the other 2 I wouldn't want for different reasons, it seems the board don't want to move or will wait till the end of the season I figured if no trophies this year they'll move Ole on in the summer, but I agree we need a new manager
 
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