Federico Chiesa

jamesjimmybyrondean said:
There's no point getting Chiesa and Sancho
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That's a very elaborate and well reasoned argument.

Like I said, everyone wants Sancho, I'm no different. But it may not happen. Not operating with balance for yet another season is daft as feck. We need to sort this. If Chiesa ends up being the one I suspect the initial groans will turn into celebration. I just made the point that they are both comfortable on either wing. We have Rashford who likes to attack from the left, but can operate centrally, and we have James who prefers left wing to the right wing, but is just a squad player. That's the extent of our options on the flanks.
 
I think we are working on a few fronts , there will be alot of negotiating with the post covid financial situation and we might be dipping our toe in loads of pools to see what is available . Out of interest would people prefer Sancho or Chiesa and VDB ? Sancho would give us exactly what we are lacking, the other two for roughly the same price as Sancho give us more options . It's going to be interesting with names like VdB , Sancho , Havertz and Chiesa all being linked to us
 
kirk buttercup said:
I think we are working on a few fronts , there will be alot of negotiating with the post covid financial situation and we might be dipping our toe in loads of pools to see what is available . Out of interest would people prefer Sancho or Chiesa and VDB ? Sancho would give us exactly what we are lacking, the other two for roughly the same price as Sancho give us more options . It's going to be interesting with names like VdB , Sancho , Havertz and Chiesa all being linked to us
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I think this approach is how united approach negotiations as a rule these days. There is always a main target and then lots of rumours about other similar players for example AWB and Aarons, Maguire and Diop, Ighalo and J. King etc... I think the club does it to stay unpredictable rather than out of any genuine interest in these other players
 
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The Original said:
I think this approach is how united approach negotiations as a rule these days. There is always a main target and then lots of rumours about other similar players for example AWB and Aarons, Maguire and Diop, Ighalo and J. King etc... I think the club does it to stay unpredictable rather than out of any genuine interest in these other players
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It's without doubt the way to go about it. Ya know, rather than old skool Woody telling everybody we have more money than fort knox and then focusing our entire budget on two players with no backup options.

There is more to a backup option that meets the eye as well, a backup option is only an option if you have laid some groundwork. It's not as easy as saying 'oh feck Sancho is too expensive, quick call Chiesa's agent and chuck a bid in.'

You would expect that a lot of bullshitt*ng and pandering is required to agents of players who are only our 2nd or 3rd choices. It's how savvy clubs go about things and I'm hoping Woody has started to realise how to play the game.
 
We might be using him to get a better price for Sancho but I cannot in any way see us buying him unless Sancho's delayed to next year.
 
It's never gonna happen. There's been way too many flops from Serie A in recent years and Ole won't take that risk - Darmian, Balotelli, Lamela, Jovetic, Cuadrado etc
 
Champagne Football said:
It's never gonna happen. There's been way too many flops from Serie A in recent years and Ole won't take that risk - Darmian, Balotelli, Lamela, Jovetic, Cuadrado etc
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Italy has historically produced world class players that have excelled on the world stage. It's extremely naive to suggest Ole would shun players from Italy due to the reasons you've given.
 
Bastian said:
That's a very elaborate and well reasoned argument.

Like I said, everyone wants Sancho, I'm no different. But it may not happen. Not operating with balance for yet another season is daft as feck. We need to sort this. If Chiesa ends up being the one I suspect the initial groans will turn into celebration. I just made the point that they are both comfortable on either wing. We have Rashford who likes to attack from the left, but can operate centrally, and we have James who prefers left wing to the right wing, but is just a squad player. That's the extent of our options on the flanks.
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Completely agree mate.

And just to add to your post. I think Chiesa could also be deployed as a false 9.
 
His stats are underwhelming. Modern wingers are expected to get a high volume of goals or assits. His contribution in this regard is similar to that of Daniel James. Obviously stats don't tell the whole story as I have only seen him a few times.
 
Adnan said:
Italy has historically produced world class players that have excelled on the world stage. It's extremely naive to suggest Ole would shun players from Italy due to the reasons you've given.
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Has there ever been a decent Italian winger? I don’t have the best memory but can’t think of any.

Italy has produced thousands of World Class players but I don’t know if they generally do wingers.
 
Bastian said:
That's a very elaborate and well reasoned argument.

Like I said, everyone wants Sancho, I'm no different. But it may not happen. Not operating with balance for yet another season is daft as feck. We need to sort this. If Chiesa ends up being the one I suspect the initial groans will turn into celebration. I just made the point that they are both comfortable on either wing. We have Rashford who likes to attack from the left, but can operate centrally, and we have James who prefers left wing to the right wing, but is just a squad player. That's the extent of our options on the flanks.
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If the intention is to get Sancho then we should focus on that. But if we can't get him this window then I'd much rather prefer a stop gap. Maybe a loan or a player on a free like Willian. I just think Sancho is the one and the perfect RW and no.7. After 7 years of no Rw it seems like getting Sancho would make be the perfect resolution. You also talk about balance and I think we have that when Rashford Martial and Greenwood are starting. In fact I'd say an inverted left footed right winger is more balanced than Sancho. If there was one that existed as good as Sancho that's who I'd prefer but right now Sancho is my first choice
 
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Ed throwing out a curveball to let Dortmund know we’ve got other options so they’re pressured into selling is what this looks like to me, have we been linked with him at all this year ? I remember we were last summer, only teams I’ve seen him linked with are Juve and Inter the same as Tonali.
 
davidmichael said:
Ed throwing out a curveball to let Dortmund know we’ve got other options so they’re pressured into selling is what this looks like to me, have we been linked with him at all this year ? I remember we were last summer, only teams I’ve seen him linked with are Juve and Inter the same as Tonali.
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At the start of his transfer thread there’s a story about Ole’s personal scout watching him.

This was in February.
 
Cliche Guevara said:
Has there ever been a decent Italian winger? I don’t have the best memory but can’t think of any.

Italy has produced thousands of World Class players but I don’t know if they generally do wingers.
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They have barely produced word class players in the past 10 years. Before chiesa there was Berardi and Bernardeschi.
 
Often these links are viewed as attempts to put pressure on clubs to lower their asking price and sell other targets.

They could also be effective in creating desperation within the player and encouraging them to push for a move.

Come on Sancho cause a fuss. Get more haircuts you cnut.
 
Honestly I haven't seen him play. Can an Italian break him down?
 
RUCK4444 said:
It's without doubt the way to go about it. Ya know, rather than old skool Woody telling everybody we have more money than fort knox and then focusing our entire budget on two players with no backup options.

There is more to a backup option that meets the eye as well, a backup option is only an option if you have laid some groundwork. It's not as easy as saying 'oh feck Sancho is too expensive, quick call Chiesa's agent and chuck a bid in.'

You would expect that a lot of bullshitt*ng and pandering is required to agents of players who are only our 2nd or 3rd choices. It's how savvy clubs go about things and I'm hoping Woody has started to realise how to play the game.
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Quite agree. Re: Woodward there are lots of signs that the behind-the-scenes side of things are improving too, which, given Utd's transitional woes may be just as or more important than things happening on the field.
 
Cliche Guevara said:
Has there ever been a decent Italian winger? I don’t have the best memory but can’t think of any.

Italy has produced thousands of World Class players but I don’t know if they generally do wingers.
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Bruno Conti ex Roma was one of the best wingers in the game in the mid 80s. He could play either wing and made his mark both at club level and on the International stage for Italy.

Roberto Donadoni was a exceptional wide player who played under the innovative Arrigo Sacchi and then under Fabio Capello in the 90s. Sacchi was a revolutionary and wanted his wingers to be all round players and not just one dimensional like we saw in my country England at the time where wingers were touch line huggers.

Then Marcello Lippi arrived and he played various formations at Juventus. 4-3-3 with 3 strikers brought him success and he later tinkered some more and deployed other formations to good effect. Which inturn didn't require him to use a strategy where there was a requirement for a touch line hugging winger. Lippi was well ahead of the game at the time and you now see teams adopting a very similar approach with their front 3 imo.

Chiesa to me reminds me of Robert Pires in some ways. Not only do I think he will provide a goal threat, I also see playmaking potential. But he will have to take the next step in his career to realise that potential.
 
Adnan said:
Bruno Conti ex Roma was one of the best wingers in the game in the mid 80s. He could play either wing and made his mark both at club level and on the International stage for Italy.

Roberto Donadoni was a exceptional wide player who played under the innovative Arrigo Sacchi and then under Fabio Capello in the 90s. Sacchi was a revolutionary and wanted his wingers to be all round players and not just one dimensional like we saw in my country England at the time where wingers were touch line huggers.

Then Marcello Lippi arrived and he played various formations at Juventus. 4-3-3 with 3 strikers brought him success and he later tinkered some more and deployed other formations to good effect. Which inturn didn't require him to use a strategy where there was a requirement for a touch line hugging winger. Lippi was well ahead of the game at the time and you now see teams adopting a very similar approach with their front 3 imo.

Chiesa to me reminds me of Robert Pires in some ways. Not only do I think he will provide a goal threat, I also see playmaking potential. But he will have to take the next step in his career to realise that potential.
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I remember those two now you mention them. It is a while back though.

I loved Conti, growing up in Scotland. We did wingers actually. I worked with a woman in Dundee who was close friends with Ralph Milne.
 
The Original said:
Quite agree. Re: Woodward there are lots of signs that the behind-the-scenes side of things are improving too, which, given Utd's transitional woes may be just as or more important than things happening on the field.
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Oh for sure, I hope he’s learned some hard lessons, other people in his position would have lost their jobs by now if it weren’t for his financial ability on the commercial side.

I’m hoping the penny has dropped and Ole is taking the lead on signings rather than the tail wagging the dog.

Ole should identify the players and potential backup options and Ed should cross the I’s and dot the T’s to lay the ground work to have a good summer... every summer!
 
RedCurry said:
He’s like an Italian Lingard. Runs a lot. Doesn’t produce much. Him being a downgrade from Sancho is a big understatement.
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In which game did you watch him play for Fiorentina that gave you the impression he was the 'Italian Lingard' ?
 
Adnan said:
Bruno Conti ex Roma was one of the best wingers in the game in the mid 80s. He could play either wing and made his mark both at club level and on the International stage for Italy.

Roberto Donadoni was a exceptional wide player who played under the innovative Arrigo Sacchi and then under Fabio Capello in the 90s. Sacchi was a revolutionary and wanted his wingers to be all round players and not just one dimensional like we saw in my country England at the time where wingers were touch line huggers.

Then Marcello Lippi arrived and he played various formations at Juventus. 4-3-3 with 3 strikers brought him success and he later tinkered some more and deployed other formations to good effect. Which inturn didn't require him to use a strategy where there was a requirement for a touch line hugging winger. Lippi was well ahead of the game at the time and you now see teams adopting a very similar approach with their front 3 imo.

Chiesa to me reminds me of Robert Pires in some ways. Not only do I think he will provide a goal threat, I also see playmaking potential. But he will have to take the next step in his career to realise that potential.
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Beppe Signori would be a wide forward in today’s game I think, would you agree?
 
2cents said:
Beppe Signori would be a wide forward in today’s game I think, would you agree?
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Signori was a goal machine and would definitely be deployed in a similar role no doubt. He's also another example of how the game was changing in Serie A when it came to wide players in the 90s.
 
The big difference with Sancho is that this season Chiesa has played as a striker.

The caveat is that its been in a 2 striker system which we dont play. Sancho despite his goalscoring doesnt play up front.

Chiesa is definitely not as good as Sancho. Last season he had a good season for a 21 year old in an average team, he was the bright spark. This season playing a new role he hasnt been as impressive but he's still 22 years old and if we play him on the right he'd be at his best again.

If the fee reflected where he is in his career, someone with potential but not quite as hyped as last summer then I'd be happy for us to sign him

gvk004 said:
How is he different from Daniel James . A hard working fast RW who can play on both sides . Isn't he too similar to James ?
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He's a dribbler with a good finish. A better version of James with a lot more potential maybe, or Park with a lot more quality on the ball.



At a midtable team he's as productive as James is at United. And last season when he wasnt playing as a striker, he was as productive in Serie A as James was in the championship which is obviously a lower standard
 
He's a good player, buying him if we can't get Sancho is like Fillet Steak was off the menu and you buy a decent burger in it's place. If we can't get Sancho because he's going somewhere else then fair enough, but if it's simply down to Dortmund not being willing to seel until next summer then I'd hold off and see if we can do something more stop-gap style like what we've done with the striker position.
 
Adnan said:
In which game did you watch him play for Fiorentina that gave you the impression he was the 'Italian Lingard' ?
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I watched a lot of Serie A this season before the lockdown since it is free here in Canada if you buy PL streaming. Maybe current Lingard is too much of an exaggeration but Chiesa isn’t anything worth the hype he gets. His best attributes are his work rate, pressing ability and perhaps his pace. Last thing we need in our front three is a player who doesn’t particularly score or assist.
 
we've been linked with Fati too, which also seems like bollocks

this feels like typical Ed shenanigans, trying to get them to lower the Sancho price

we'll leave it to the last few days and pay the asking price, it's just how we roll
 
With this and the Ansu Fati rumor it might be us putting pressure on Dortmund.
 
I hope we are just using these stories to help move along the Sancho deal. Chiesa might go on to be quite a player, but Sancho has the higher ceiling in my opinion. And with the players we have, a player like Sancho is what we are missing. I hope we don't screw this up.
 
RedCurry said:
I watched a lot of Serie A this season before the lockdown since it is free here in Canada if you buy PL streaming. Maybe current Lingard is too much of an exaggeration but Chiesa isn’t anything worth the hype he gets. His best attributes are his work rate, pressing ability and perhaps his pace. Last thing we need in our front three is a player who doesn’t particularly score or assist.
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He's nothing like Lingard and it's an absurd comparison.
 
Tarrou said:
we've been linked with Fati too, which also seems like bollocks

this feels like typical Ed shenanigans, trying to get them to lower the Sancho price

we'll leave it to the last few days and pay the asking price, it's just how we roll
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Just how often have we done this?
 
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