Looks great, well done, Pol.
Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars
- Thread starter Polaroid
- Start date
The confusion is probably because fullback originally where those two errr fully at the back (and central) while the halves were more advanced and more akin to a DM and two wingbacks. To this day in Uruguay centrehalf is used to refer to the No. 5, as in the DM not Rio Ferdinand. The numbering follows that logic as well:
There's a lot of confusion resulting from old-fashioned nomenclature. JL Andrade is referred to as a DM in many sites, others place DMs at CB, CBs as FBs, etc. I find it quite funny actually.
The confusion is probably because fullback originally where those two errr fully at the back (and central) while the halves were more advanced and more akin to a DM and two wingbacks. To this day in Uruguay centrehalf is used to refer to the No. 5, as in the DM not Rio Ferdinand. The numbering follows that logic as well:
Yeah that is what I thought, never seen it laid out like that though so cheers!
Weird that the names and numbers developed the way they did, pretty interesting
I would actually love to end up with such a formation but struggling massively to work out a viable plan to run it with appropriate players while still able to stick to the requirements, particularly the pre-post 1972. I would need to get hold of 2-3 post 1970 players who are unlikely to be available any time soon 
It's even harder when trying to fully implement how the Might Magyars played (MM instead of WW above, not keen on the WM transition). Oddly, the older formation is easier to put together credibly with more modern players and the then revolutionary total football Magyar one is a fecking nightmare as I would need a fair few pre-72 defenders and already have those slots taken up by having the right people upfront. A bit like Mourinho and his short duvet, something has to give
It's even harder when trying to fully implement how the Might Magyars played (MM instead of WW above, not keen on the WM transition). Oddly, the older formation is easier to put together credibly with more modern players and the then revolutionary total football Magyar one is a fecking nightmare as I would need a fair few pre-72 defenders and already have those slots taken up by having the right people upfront. A bit like Mourinho and his short duvet, something has to give
I would love to see that pulled off. The formations seem to be getting more and more creative in these drafts anyway, so I reckon we will see one soon just maybe not in this draft.
The defence would be so hard to get right, I mean who would you have in mind for the complete centre back position? It would need to be the perfect fit.
Maldini -- Baresi -- Thuram could hack it defensively, but I dont know if that is a genuine enough representation because Maldini and Thuram are chosen there because they arent really fulbacks and are comfortable in CB.
If it was real fullbacks it would be so difficult.
The defence would be so hard to get right, I mean who would you have in mind for the complete centre back position? It would need to be the perfect fit.
Maldini -- Baresi -- Thuram could hack it defensively, but I dont know if that is a genuine enough representation because Maldini and Thuram are chosen there because they arent really fulbacks and are comfortable in CB.
If it was real fullbacks it would be so difficult.
I was planning on making it happen as well but considering you need not only a top LB/RB(there are very few) - you also need a world-class DM pairing.
The CB position I think you can handle by including one of the few who actually performed from it rather than a random "great CB". Of course picking one up soon enough will be important.
But spending pretty much your first 4 picks on the defense - that will be hard to come back from in these drafts.
I think in practice Maldini and Thuram could hack it, less so Baresi as he lacks some attributes you would need in that central chap. In terms of performing at World Cups and sticking to what they did, etc. it would be a big ask to line up those three credibly. On the other hand, lining up three credible ones would result in the defence being underrated more so than those three! I would actually rate Santamaría higher than Baresi for that central role but there he is warming the bench for Cutch behind Nesta and Ayala...
It's a total mindfeck really. I wouldn't mind losing once I pull it off but chances are I would get stuck in some horrible halfway house!
He was a great keeper, but yet again I find a bit of what Snow referred to earlier about how many players apparently had X, Y or Z in their pockets. He is absolutely right, it was more than anything else an immense team effort so hopefully I can put an end to myths and give way to facts here.
Winning wasn't beyond them. Football writers love the underdog story and waxing lyrical over heroic individual performances, but the fact was Uruguay had won two Olympics and a World Cup and Brazil had won nothing.
Only two months before the WC Uruguay and Brazil faced each other three times at the traditional Copa de Rio Branco (much like Copa America started as Uruguay vs. Argentina, this was the Brazil vs. Uruguay equivalent, a suitably irregular SAM version of the Home Nations). All games were played in Brazil and in more than one there was controversy over the ref favoruing the home side: 3-4 to Uruguay, 3-2 to Brazil and 1-0 to Brazil.
Do notice the one goal margins. The one-sided basketball scorelines for Brazil-Sweden/Spain were a result of the clash of styles. European teams were tactical machines unprepared to deal with improvisation and flair, South American sides had each other sized up nicely.
Anyone who had watched Copa de Rio Branco knew that Brazil's strength was the Zizinho-Ademir channel and the combination of those two and Jair, they also knew Brazil struggled with Uruguay's right flank of Ghiggia and Pérez (inside right) and Míguez-Schiaffino centrally (Schiaffino regularly moving from inside left into second striker). In fact, the moment the game finished at Maracana the Brazilian radio commentator concludes "We've lost today because two months later we still can't find a solution to Uruguay's right flank".
So that's two sides which could only ever produce a close contest. The difference was Brazil had been shitting on everyone and Uruguay had been struggling, they got overconfident and those XI Uruguayans had the temperament and character to withstand the pressure of the occasion and 220,000 overexcited supporters. More so, they handled it well enough that they gradually but devastatingly turned it against the home side.
Who excelled? Pretty much everyone.
- Máspoli made a couple of outstanding saves early on as Brazil started on a high. He didn't cover himself in glory for their goal but made up for it in the late manic minutes of the second (not first as above) half.
- Tejera and González ("The Lion of Maracana") completely nullified Ademir. A few minutes into the game they noticed Ghiggia got brought down in the Brazil box and the ref gave nothing. "Cato (Tejera), the mister doesn't give penalties". "Yups". So next time Ademir gets into the box he is double blocked by both symultaneously and literally sent flying (there's another pretty funny instance in a clip I posted earlier). With Ademir gone that's half the job on Zizinho done, a bit like taking out Yorke reducing Beckham's likely impact. Brazil were quickly reduced to long-range efforts.
- Gambetta did a fine job of getting the ball out of defence with his dribbling runs. He was a sound defender but, as I mentioned, the moment Brazil developed any sort of rhythm on a flank Andrade was sent there to put an end to that nonsense and Gambetta would provide the outlet on the opposite flank. Horses for courses.
- Varela was at his inspirational best and both distributed wisely or would show up as a CB covering either Tejera or González as they shepherded Zizinho and Jair onto the flanks (which, of course, sometimes saw them beaten and the inside cutting into the box, which is where the covering came in!). The way he managed the psychological side of that game and the mental ownership of every last one of the Brazilian players is unrivalled in World Cup history.
- Ghiggia raped Bigode all game, as he had in the Copa Rio Branco and Pérez was a big part of that pivoting and playing him on. Bauer was anonymous, he may as well not have shown up for the game.
- Míguez and Schiaffino confused the hell out of them as Míguez dropped deep and Schiaffino moved to striker leaving the Brazilian CBs and Danilo completely confused as to who was their mark. Morán completed the frontline in Vidal's injured absence but didn't make any significant impact, it was a story of penetration down the right flank or Míguez advancing centrally and shooting from range.
Anyhow, my 2p.
Top post mate and really what drafts are for.
Theon vs Gio next
This is going to be epic...
This is going to be epic...
Just checked my inbox, nothing from Theon yet so Jayvin vs Anto will go first
Oliver Kahn - World Cup Peak - 2002
Produced arguably the finest World Cup performance of any keeper in history in 2002, with his heroic saves guiding an average Germany side to the final. The first and only goalkeeper to be voted player of the tournament.
Andreas Brehme - World Cup Peak - 1990
The complete fullback, Brehme had it all. Equally adept with both feet, he was solid in defence and influential in the attacking third, he possessed great awareness, superb crossing ability and was a master of set pieces. His World Cup peak came in 1990 when he scored 3 goals (including the winner in the final) and was named in the team of the tournament.
Fabio Cannavaro - World Cup Peak - 2006
Golden Ball and World Player of the Year winner in 2006 thanks to his imperious performances en route to Italy's 2006 World Cup win. The captain and key player in a defence that conceded only twice during the entire tournament.
Mauro Ramos - World Cup Peak - 1962
Captain of Brazil's victorious 1962 side. An elegant and classy defender, Ramos was not one to dive in rashly, but rather used his superb awareness and anticipation to snuff out attacks. Brazil's monthly football magazine 'Placar' listed him alongside Da Guia and Luis Pereira as the greatest Brazillian centrebacks of all time and wrote of him: "Mauro was a classical defender, elegant; never prone to use violent tackles. Able to stop opposition attacks with an immense stillness"
Jeno Buzánszky - World Cup Peak - 1954
Buzánszky was one of the best full backs in Europe during the 1950's, playing a vital role in the success of Hungary's 1954 side. A solid and efficient player, his discipline allowed the more attack minded players in Hungary's side to shine, generally sitting back and cutting out opposition counter attacks before they had truly began.
Patrick Vieira - World Cup Peak - 2006
The unsung hero of France's 2006 campaign, putting in a string of outstanding displays in the knockout stages and laying the foundations for Zinedine Zidane's match-winning performances. He was named in the team of the tournament.
Mario Coluna - World Cup Peak - 1966
Selected in the 1966 team of the tournament, Coluna was the man who made Portugal tick. He dominated midfield with his strength, balance and tireless running and created countless goals for Eusebio with his consistent and metronomic passing.
Juan Alberto Schiaffino - World Cup Peak - 1950
Arguably Uruguay's best ever player, Schiaffino was one of the great inside forwards of his day, with exquisite ball control, vision, pace and a powerful left foot which made him a significant goal threat. He was instrumental in Uruguay's victory in 1950, scoring the equalizer in the 'final' against Brazil and setting Uruguay on their path to victory.
Julinho - World Cup Peak - 1954
Brazil's number one wing wizard before the arrival of Garrincha. A mazy dribbler with a ferocious shot, Julinho shone in his one and only World Cup appearance in 1954 and was named as one of the players of the tournament.
Rivaldo - World Cup Peak - 2002
With 8 goals in two tournament appearances, Rivaldo has World Cup pedigree of the highest order. His peak was undoubtedly in the 2002 edition, where he struck up a telepathic understanding with Ronaldo and scored in all of Brazil's first 5 games, including crucial goals against Belgium and England.
Ronaldo - World Cup Peak - 2002
With more tournament goals than any other player, the name Ronaldo is indelibly linked with the World Cup. Brilliant in both the 1998 and 2002 editions, it was Ronaldo's 8 goals in 2002 (including two in the final against the previously unbeatable Oliver Kahn) that cemented his status as one of the best of all time and fired Brazil to the trophy for a record 5th time. Truly one of the most legendary figures in World Cup history.
Produced arguably the finest World Cup performance of any keeper in history in 2002, with his heroic saves guiding an average Germany side to the final. The first and only goalkeeper to be voted player of the tournament.
Andreas Brehme - World Cup Peak - 1990
The complete fullback, Brehme had it all. Equally adept with both feet, he was solid in defence and influential in the attacking third, he possessed great awareness, superb crossing ability and was a master of set pieces. His World Cup peak came in 1990 when he scored 3 goals (including the winner in the final) and was named in the team of the tournament.
Fabio Cannavaro - World Cup Peak - 2006
Golden Ball and World Player of the Year winner in 2006 thanks to his imperious performances en route to Italy's 2006 World Cup win. The captain and key player in a defence that conceded only twice during the entire tournament.
Mauro Ramos - World Cup Peak - 1962
Captain of Brazil's victorious 1962 side. An elegant and classy defender, Ramos was not one to dive in rashly, but rather used his superb awareness and anticipation to snuff out attacks. Brazil's monthly football magazine 'Placar' listed him alongside Da Guia and Luis Pereira as the greatest Brazillian centrebacks of all time and wrote of him: "Mauro was a classical defender, elegant; never prone to use violent tackles. Able to stop opposition attacks with an immense stillness"
Jeno Buzánszky - World Cup Peak - 1954
Buzánszky was one of the best full backs in Europe during the 1950's, playing a vital role in the success of Hungary's 1954 side. A solid and efficient player, his discipline allowed the more attack minded players in Hungary's side to shine, generally sitting back and cutting out opposition counter attacks before they had truly began.
Patrick Vieira - World Cup Peak - 2006
The unsung hero of France's 2006 campaign, putting in a string of outstanding displays in the knockout stages and laying the foundations for Zinedine Zidane's match-winning performances. He was named in the team of the tournament.
Mario Coluna - World Cup Peak - 1966
Selected in the 1966 team of the tournament, Coluna was the man who made Portugal tick. He dominated midfield with his strength, balance and tireless running and created countless goals for Eusebio with his consistent and metronomic passing.
Juan Alberto Schiaffino - World Cup Peak - 1950
Arguably Uruguay's best ever player, Schiaffino was one of the great inside forwards of his day, with exquisite ball control, vision, pace and a powerful left foot which made him a significant goal threat. He was instrumental in Uruguay's victory in 1950, scoring the equalizer in the 'final' against Brazil and setting Uruguay on their path to victory.
Julinho - World Cup Peak - 1954
Brazil's number one wing wizard before the arrival of Garrincha. A mazy dribbler with a ferocious shot, Julinho shone in his one and only World Cup appearance in 1954 and was named as one of the players of the tournament.
Rivaldo - World Cup Peak - 2002
With 8 goals in two tournament appearances, Rivaldo has World Cup pedigree of the highest order. His peak was undoubtedly in the 2002 edition, where he struck up a telepathic understanding with Ronaldo and scored in all of Brazil's first 5 games, including crucial goals against Belgium and England.
Ronaldo - World Cup Peak - 2002
With more tournament goals than any other player, the name Ronaldo is indelibly linked with the World Cup. Brilliant in both the 1998 and 2002 editions, it was Ronaldo's 8 goals in 2002 (including two in the final against the previously unbeatable Oliver Kahn) that cemented his status as one of the best of all time and fired Brazil to the trophy for a record 5th time. Truly one of the most legendary figures in World Cup history.
Awesome, looking forward to it. Shame I have to go to bed soon, but hopefully I won't find myself down by too many votes when I wake up.
I'm sorry, but that indoor pitch in the Theon vs Gio game is hurting my eyes, really. Is @Gio around? Don't want to spam in the match thread, but ffs, can you please change it? If I'm the only one thinking it looks that horrible, feel free to ignore it, it won't affect my vote, but ffs, the world cup really isn't played indoor.
Just to let you know:
Just to let you know:
Aldo warned you weeks ago
That pitch is the sex boys, I don't know what you're on about. Nah if I get on I'll change it to the scabby dead grass pitch. And here's one I prepared earlier:
So when will the next matches KO?
Desert has not sent me anything so I am afraid you would have to wait Cal
Hmm... I'll be drunk this time tomorrow and on holiday (with limited access) this time the day after...
Hmm... I'll be drunk this time tomorrow and on holiday (with limited access) this time the day after...
If Desert misses the match today, then to be fair to you, he would have to wait for your next available date. It would also lead to the 2nd draft and the entire tournament being pushed back. I will start crappy vs paceme first
Actually, if we can start the match tomorrow before 4pm BST, then it'd be okay, I just want to take a look at his formation early on and elaborate on my tactics.
Hmm Paceme also has not sent me anything
Both matches can't start...
Both matches can't start...
If Fergus has sent his stuff in then we can start now.
If Fergus is present and is ok with it, we start
Otherwise would not be fair to start the match a day ahead without him around
Alright!
Are you starting my game soon Pol?
Paceme has not sent me anything, I am afraid you would have to wait crappy
Arrghhh
Has anyone seen or heard from Paceme or Desert in the last days? I don't remember either commenting or voting in one of the games so far?
What an anti-climax. I was waiting whole day for my game to start
@Polaroid - I do not want my game to happen over the weekend. Please start it on Monday only now.
@Polaroid - I do not want my game to happen over the weekend. Please start it on Monday only now.
What an anti-climax. I was waiting whole day for my game to start
@Polaroid - I do not want my game to happen over the weekend. Please start it on Monday only now.
Me too... I thought the timing was perfect on a Thursday...
Anyway, let me know if we can go ahead tmr afternoon, if not I'd prefer postponing till Monday too.
What an anti-climax. I was waiting whole day for my game to start
@Polaroid - I do not want my game to happen over the weekend. Please start it on Monday only now.
Me too... I thought the timing was perfect on a Thursday...
Anyway, let me know if we can go ahead tmr afternoon, if not I'd prefer postponing till Monday too.
Switching your games to Monday if they do not show up within an hour, only fair that they have to fit your schedule now
I will be available over the weekend but I think voting and discussion will be considerably less and I do not want to suffer because of it.
Thanks BTW. You can always start the matches scheduled for later now if the write ups are ready?
Thanks BTW. You can always start the matches scheduled for later now if the write ups are ready?
I've just checked, both were online today according to that popup window when you click on their names. Anyone sent them a PM?
I thought we could start the next draft round on the weekend
I thought we could start the next draft round on the weekend
Earliest I can get my write up in is probably Sunday afternoon. Feel free to kick off at any point after it's received because I doubt I will be able to contribute to the match thread anyway, though I will try.
Good luck, Annah.
Unfortunately I can't those dates as I already scheduled Friday/Saturday to do it. Firstly we already agreed to an earlier date which did not happen either.
I have no time at all to be involved in a draft for quite some time after this and it will be really shitty if I am forced to play without being able to participate at all in the thread when I had my team ready on time.
I have no time at all to be involved in a draft for quite some time after this and it will be really shitty if I am forced to play without being able to participate at all in the thread when I had my team ready on time.
What earlier date? I'm not sure what you mean by 'on time', seeing as I never really agreed to the Friday.
I'm happy to let you progress though.
I'm happy to let you progress though.
Actually, feck it. I will send Pol a formation but no tactics or player profiles and we can start.