Books Fantasy Reads

Started Name of the Wind and found it a real chore up until now. kvothe has just reached the University and it's starting to hold my attention, does it get better from here on out?
PUT IT DOWN NOW. "Name of the Wind" came out in March 2007 as the first book in a trilogy. Going on almost ten years later, Rothfuss has still not finished the series. There are plenty of good fantasy novels out there. Check back in about 5 years time when he may have got the first draft of book 3 to his publisher.

EDIT: I suppose I should add that the two books he has written so far in the trilogy are very good. "The Slow Regard of Silent Things" (a novella set in the same world) on the other hand..............
 
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Just finished reading Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere. It's a bit YA but more mature than something like Percy Jackson series imo. Very few characters overall so it's easy to keep track of who's who. Liked the subtle humour here compared to American Gods and Sandman series where the universe is pretty expansive and the characters didn't have much scope for fun. Obviously not half as funny as Good Omens but that was mostly Pratchett.

Recommended for anyone not looking for complex fantasy stories with huge character development. A light breezy read in all.
I found it awful. Really hated it.

American Gods was much better IMO.
 
I found it awful. Really hated it.

American Gods was much better IMO.

Neverwhere is a light YA novel, Revan. Your problem is you've read it after finishing 300+ fantasy books. Possibly the same problem with Asimov's Foundation trilogy ;)

It's going to pale in comparison with American Gods, obviously. I haven't picked up anything serious (in fantasy) after finishing Black Company last December. The sheer length and complexity of Malazan is putting me off as I can't afford to spend a lot of time with books these days. Just the Diana Wynne Jones' light satire on fantasy clichés and Neverwhere so far this year.
 
Oh, come on. Not even a comparison. Foundation was awesome. I'd still rate if a one of the top books in sci-fi.

Fantasy has grown leaps and bounds against proper sci-fi imo.

Heh, I found it amazing as well. Prequels helped a lot as I wouldn't have got the entire point of psychohistory in Foundation if I hadn't known what the feck happened before that. Even the 1st sequel was good but the final one (7th in the overall series) was probably a bit underwhelming compared to what came before it.

But my earlier comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek and was in regards to Revan's review of Foundation trilogy a few months ago
 
Neverwhere is a light YA novel, Revan. Your problem is you've read it after finishing 300+ fantasy books. Possibly the same problem with Asimov's Foundation trilogy ;)

It's going to pale in comparison with American Gods, obviously. I haven't picked up anything serious (in fantasy) after finishing Black Company last December. The sheer length and complexity of Malazan is putting me off as I can't afford to spend a lot of time with books these days. Just the Diana Wynne Jones' light satire on fantasy clichés and Neverwhere so far this year.
You're likely right. Foundation was alright IMO, but not spectacular as I was expecting, and I liked Robots more than it.

If you haven't read it, I would highly recommend The Lies of Locke Lamora. One of the best books I've read in years.
Oh, come on. Not even a comparison. Foundation was awesome. I'd still rate if a one of the top books in sci-fi.

Fantasy has grown leaps and bounds against proper sci-fi imo.
That's because there is nothing that good in sci-fi except Hyperion, Hitchhickers, Thrawn and Expanse. If we put together fantasy and sci-fi, then Foundation wouldn't even make my top 20. At the same time, I acknowledge that it was written around the same time as Lord of the Rings which despite it is worshiped from community, I probably wouldn't put in my top 10 fantasy sagas.
 
Wait, apparently that's a trilogy plus one prequel published so far with 4 more books to come? I stayed away from the thread throughout 15-16 season - will go through the reviews of other books now.
The prequel was never published. So far there are three books, with the fourth one in editing (will be released in September).

The first book is all time great, the other two are decent but nowhere as good.
 
That's because there is nothing that good in sci-fi except Hyperion, Hitchhickers, Thrawn and Expanse. If we put together fantasy and sci-fi, then Foundation wouldn't even make my top 20. At the same time, I acknowledge that it was written around the same time as Lord of the Rings which despite it is worshiped from community, I probably wouldn't put in my top 10 fantasy sagas.

It is understandable that Fantasy has matured far better as writers can come up with their own magical systems as against constrained by science.

Personally I loved Foundation and the "psychohistory" as a concept was very intriguing. Most good sci-fi books are still classics, HG Wells, Jules Verne, Arthur C Clarke. Orson Scott Card's Ender series was a good read despite it's slightly weird theme. Frank Herbert's Dune is another good one...but yeah, Fantasy is far ahead both in quality and quantity.
 
It is understandable that Fantasy has matured far better as writers can come up with their own magical systems as against constrained by science.

Personally I loved Foundation and the "psychohistory" as a concept was very intriguing. Most good sci-fi books are still classics, HG Wells, Jules Verne, Arthur C Clarke. Orson Scott Card's Ender series was a good read despite it's slightly weird theme. Frank Herbert's Dune is another good one...but yeah, Fantasy is far ahead both in quality and quantity.
Only if you stop after the first one.

I don't think that I hate any series more than Dune. The first one is quite good but on the other ones, the author goes into full philosophical rambling.
 
That's because there is nothing that good in sci-fi except Hyperion, Hitchhickers, Thrawn and Expanse. If we put together fantasy and sci-fi, then Foundation wouldn't even make my top 20. At the same time, I acknowledge that it was written around the same time as Lord of the Rings which despite it is worshiped from community, I probably wouldn't put in my top 10 fantasy sagas.
Heinlein wrote some great Sci-Fi stuff. His earlier works especially are great for young adults. I whiled away many an hour as a kid reading his books.

Piers Anthony is another who has put together some fine work in that genre as has Philip K. Dick.

IMHO, the short story "The Last Question" by Isaac Asimov is one of the best pieces of philosophical literature ever written.
 
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Heinlein wrote some great Sci-Fi stuff. His earlier works especially are great for young adults. I whiled away many an hour as a kid reading his books.

Piers Anthony is another who has put together some fine work in that genre as has Philip K. Dick.

IMHO, the short story "The Last Question" by Isaac Asimov is one of the best pieces of philosophical literature ever written.
I was talking more about series. The classic sci-fi authors (bar Asimov) liked to write more standalones, and some of them are still good ('Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep' or 'The Childhood's End' for example). But when it comes to series, it falls short in comparison with fantasy. Also, I think that it ages way more faster than fantasy.

@Edgar Allan Pillow , Verne is shit if you're over 15 years old IMO. Remember that I loved twenty thousands miles under the sea as a kid though.
 
Piers Anthony is another who has put together some fine work in that genre as has Philip K. Dick
Managed to read only two PKD books so far - Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and The Man in the High Castle. His books make you think a long time afterwards.

IMHO, the short story "The Last Question" by Isaac Asimov is one of the best pieces of philosophical literature ever written.
If you're interested, check out his The Last Answer too.


Do people consider Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency part of sci-fi and if so, how do you all rate it?
 
I was talking more about series. The classic sci-fi authors (bar Asimov) liked to write more standalones, and some of them are still good ('Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep' or 'The Childhood's End' for example). But when it comes to series, it falls short in comparison with fantasy. Also, I think that it ages way more faster than fantasy.

@Edgar Allan Pillow , Verne is shit if you're over 15 years old IMO. Remember that I loved twenty thousands miles under the sea as a kid though.
I think that's fair comment (first bold). I think the reason sci-fi ages a lot faster than fantasy is that fantasy (for the most part) will always remain fantasy whereas a lot of science fiction may one day (or has) become science fact.
 
@Edgar Allan Pillow , Verne is shit if you're over 15 years old IMO. Remember that I loved twenty thousands miles under the sea as a kid though.

My second favourite classic (A distant second behind Monte Cristo). Loved the book to bits. Still have a copy of it somewhere.

I think what Sci-Fi lacks is the immersion factor of fantasy books, the good one's at least.
 
I picked up Robin Hobb's Dragon Keeper for $ 1 at a book sale. Is it any good?
Also got the expanded version of Stephen King's The Stand for $ 2 which i've heard good things about.
 
I picked up Robin Hobb's Dragon Keeper for $ 1 at a book sale. Is it any good?
Reading it right now. Easily, the worst Hobb book I have ever read. It is nowhere as good as The Farseer, Liveship Trader or The Tawny Man.
 
Reading it right now. Easily, the worst Hobb book I have ever read. It is nowhere as good as The Farseer, Liveship Trader or The Tawny Man.

Thanks Revan, I'll move it to the back of my reading list.
 
I'm almost finished with the second book in the First Law trilogy... bit underwhelmed to be honest. There's something about his writing that just doesn't grip me... maybe it's just a bit... simple? I dunno. I like the concept of his characters ... the troubled torturer.. the thinking barbarian... the cowardly fighter... and they've all grown on me. I think the author is at his best when he's dealing with these three, but then a lot of his characters just feel completely bland. The named northman may as well be the same person for all I care.

Also the world building is a bit meh as well. Nothing about it really intrigues me that much, although I do appreciate the attention to the personal plights of his main characters, it's quite unlike a fantasy series to not provoke some air of grandeur in it's overall story.

I guess the last series I read was very philosophical, had a "world ending" arc, and had one of the most intelligent prose I've come across. So it's kinda took a bit of adapting to go into something like this which I guess feels a lot smaller and intimate.. I mean... I don't dislike it but I just can't say it's going to be one that's going to ever have me re-reading.
 
Finished Dragon Keeper (Rain Wild Chronicles 1) and found it so boooring. Not only that the story is far worse than in any Hobb book, but also the writing is nowhere as good as in Fitz books or Liveship.

She also forgot to give an ending to the book. It ended like in the middle of story. Anyway, have to continue with these books just for the payoff of final Fitz books, although I am not liking where this is going.

I'm almost finished with the second book in the First Law trilogy... bit underwhelmed to be honest. There's something about his writing that just doesn't grip me... maybe it's just a bit... simple? I dunno. I like the concept of his characters ... the troubled torturer.. the thinking barbarian... the cowardly fighter... and they've all grown on me. I think the author is at his best when he's dealing with these three, but then a lot of his characters just feel completely bland. The named northman may as well be the same person for all I care.

Also the world building is a bit meh as well. Nothing about it really intrigues me that much, although I do appreciate the attention to the personal plights of his main characters, it's quite unlike a fantasy series to not provoke some air of grandeur in it's overall story.

I guess the last series I read was very philosophical, had a "world ending" arc, and had one of the most intelligent prose I've come across. So it's kinda took a bit of adapting to go into something like this which I guess feels a lot smaller and intimate.. I mean... I don't dislike it but I just can't say it's going to be one that's going to ever have me re-reading.
First Law is one of those books that becomes better after you finish it. Also, Bayaz is an all time great when it comes to fantasy characters.

I have to agree about the writing though, it isn't that good. However, on each book, the writing becomes better than in the previous ones. Similarly, I think that each book is better than the previous one. Additionally, the sequels (especially Best Served Cold and The Heroes) are far better in every aspect that the trilogy.

For what is worth, I think that now Abercrombie is one of the authors with the best writing (below Rothfuss, Kay and Tolkien, I would say around the same level as Martin, Jordan and Hobb) and it is funny to compare the difference in prose from Half a King to The Blade Itself. His newest trilogy isn't as good as The First Law and standalones, but the writing is better. Saying that, the First Law standalones (the order is The First Law trilogy - Best Served Cold - The Heroes - Red Country) have excellent writing. He is writing now a new trilogy on The First Law world which is the think I am excited most in the genre.
 
I'm almost finished with the second book in the First Law trilogy... bit underwhelmed to be honest. There's something about his writing that just doesn't grip me... maybe it's just a bit... simple? I dunno. I like the concept of his characters ... the troubled torturer.. the thinking barbarian... the cowardly fighter... and they've all grown on me. I think the author is at his best when he's dealing with these three, but then a lot of his characters just feel completely bland. The named northman may as well be the same person for all I care.

Also the world building is a bit meh as well. Nothing about it really intrigues me that much, although I do appreciate the attention to the personal plights of his main characters, it's quite unlike a fantasy series to not provoke some air of grandeur in it's overall story.

I guess the last series I read was very philosophical, had a "world ending" arc, and had one of the most intelligent prose I've come across. So it's kinda took a bit of adapting to go into something like this which I guess feels a lot smaller and intimate.. I mean... I don't dislike it but I just can't say it's going to be one that's going to ever have me re-reading.

That's a fairly concise summary and I would fully concur. I've been a bit bemused by the praise.

It's not really the writing either, which is at a level that's more than acceptable, but more the plot which is ok at best and not particularly gripping at any point in the trilogy. The second book sums up the whole series for me. You have this big plot in the book (Bayaz and co traveling) and at the end of the book you realize that the the plot hasn't moved an inch. I actually though the world building aspect was the promising part of the series albeit Abercrombie never fully delivered on that promise. All the bits about Juvens, Kanedias, the disciples and the First Law were quite interesting but all too sparse.

Won't spoil it but imo the third book is the most disappointing. Nothing really happens and and even some things that did happen in the first two books either from a plot or character perspective are reversed. There's a proxy war but no real direct conflict and my primary emotion after reading the last book was one of annoyance. You expect a lot more after investing 2000+ pages.
 
That's a fairly concise summary and I would fully concur. I've been a bit bemused by the praise.

It's not really the writing either, which is at a level that's more than acceptable, but more the plot which is ok at best and not particularly gripping at any point in the trilogy. The second book sums up the whole series for me. You have this big plot in the book (Bayaz and co traveling) and at the end of the book you realize that the the plot hasn't moved an inch. I actually though the world building aspect was the promising part of the series albeit Abercrombie never fully delivered on that promise. All the bits about Juvens, Kanedias, the disciples and the First Law were quite interesting but all too sparse.

Won't spoil it but imo the third book is the most disappointing. Nothing really happens and and even some things that did happen in the first two books either from a plot or character perspective are reversed. There's a proxy war but no real direct conflict and my primary emotion after reading the last book was one of annoyance. You expect a lot more after investing 2000+ pages.

Aye. I'll read it all within the next week or so, but for something that rated so highly I think bemused is the right word.

Good news is The Great Ordeal arriving next week, and that series is just incredible IMO. I'd rank it as the best fantasy series I've ever read. But everytime I mention it no-one ever fecking comments! I feel like everyone here just needs to pick up the Prince of Nothing trilogy right now.
 
Aye. I'll read it all within the next week or so, but for something that rated so highly I think bemused is the right word.

Good news is The Great Ordeal arriving next week, and that series is just incredible IMO. I'd rank it as the best fantasy series I've ever read. But everytime I mention it no-one ever fecking comments! I feel like everyone here just needs to pick up the Prince of Nothing trilogy right now.
I am planning to read it soon.

In asoiaf forum, it is the highest rated fantasy saga (even higher than ASOIAF itself). Everyone there seems to wank over it, although no-one else seems to have read it. I didn't read it yet cause I heard some comparisons with the Dune saga, and I actually hate Dune with passion, but I am going to give it a try when I finish Rain Wild Chronicles.
 
Seems to be set after the Prince of Nothing series timeline-wise. I need to read that first!
I meant for the entire The Second Apocalypse. As far as I know there is a trilogy followed by an quadrology (The Great Ordeal is the third part there) which will be followed by a final trilogy. So, in the end there will be 10 books there set in the same world (similar to The First Law which is trilogy - three standalones - trilogy or The Realm of the Elderlings from Hobb).
 
I meant for the entire The Second Apocalypse. As far as I know there is a trilogy followed by an quadrology (The Great Ordeal is the third part there) which will be followed by a final trilogy. So, in the end there will be 10 books there set in the same world (similar to The First Law which is trilogy - three standalones - trilogy or The Realm of the Elderlings from Hobb).

So this is the 6th book in the sequence. mmm, quite a bit of catching up to do.

With work being busy, I've to restrict myself to light reading. :(
 
I am planning to read it soon.

In asoiaf forum, it is the highest rated fantasy saga (even higher than ASOIAF itself). Everyone there seems to wank over it, although no-one else seems to have read it. I didn't read it yet cause I heard some comparisons with the Dune saga, and I actually hate Dune with passion, but I am going to give it a try when I finish Rain Wild Chronicles.

Hmm I loved Dune but can't see the comparisons.

Prince of Nothing isn't as accessible to the mainstream as GOT. GOT is the kind of fantasy that gets people who never read fantasy involved. I think GRRM has a better knack for characters, especially likeable ones. He writes his bad guys and good guys in a way that has you loving em both. Prince of Nothing is a little bit of a letdown in that regard, it only has a few characters that you really get to know and it's hard to call them likeable, but his main protagonist Kellhus is the most compelling character I've ever read. Writing a "super intelligence" must be a hell of a task but Bakker has the ability to pull it off. Despite his characters not being overly likeable, they are written very well and present strong/intelligent figures in the story that make you excited to see how they interact with each other.

Prince Of Nothing has a more targeted audience, it's heavy on the philosophy at times (but by no means bogged down by it), and sometimes it feels like Bakker has got his thesaurus out for the sake of it. But it's world building and overall arc is amazing. His writing gets better as it goes on (although it is very strong throughout), until you will find yourself re-reading bits over and over just to appreciate the dialogue between his characters.

I don't know for sure if he is going to do a final trilogy, I think he can wrap it up in the next book and sign off having written one of the greatest fantasy epics ever.
 
About a 3rd of the way through American Gods and I'm not feeling it at the moment. I'm not sure whether it's because I'm listening to the audiobook but I'm finding it a little cumbersome.
 
First Law is one of those books that becomes better after you finish it. Also, Bayaz is an all time great when it comes to fantasy characters.

I have to agree about the writing though, it isn't that good. However, on each book, the writing becomes better than in the previous ones. Similarly, I think that each book is better than the previous one. Additionally, the sequels (especially Best Served Cold and The Heroes) are far better in every aspect that the trilogy.

For what is worth, I think that now Abercrombie is one of the authors with the best writing (below Rothfuss, Kay and Tolkien, I would say around the same level as Martin, Jordan and Hobb) and it is funny to compare the difference in prose from Half a King to The Blade Itself. His newest trilogy isn't as good as The First Law and standalones, but the writing is better. Saying that, the First Law standalones (the order is The First Law trilogy - Best Served Cold - The Heroes - Red Country) have excellent writing. He is writing now a new trilogy on The First Law world which is the think I am excited most in the genre.

So I just finished the trilogy up a few days ago, I'd say all in all it was above average stuff. But still my opinion hasn't changed much. None of it really stuck with me, and by the end of it I was left a little frustrated with an ending that just seemed all to anti-climatic. I did like where they went with Bayaz though,
In the end he is no better, and arguably worse, than Khalul. The man has no remorse for any deaths he causes and opposes ideas of social progression
.

I think that some of the characters left me a bit miffed by the end.
Glotka constantly asks himself why he tortures others, now did I miss something or did he never really confront why he did this? There was no real revelation here. Also with Logen... so he was an evil son of a bitch who now tries to be good? But why? Apart from a pretty flimsy "I've had enough of killing" I never really understood how the character we come to know can be the same character everyone fears. I'm not talking about his crazy psycho fighting moments, I'm talking about how Bethod reveals how much of a savage he really was. I mean I liked how Logen was this introspective warrior, but at the same time none of it seemed to mesh with his past. Jezal was one character who I think had a good arc, he tries to be brave but is still a coward at heart, it all kinda fits and by the end even though he tries to be more than a pawn, he is no match for Bayaz's tyranny. All in all Bayaz was the one real character I liked, his development is consistent and hints of his true nature are there from the start. I think this "Anti-Gandalf" thing was probably as unique as I've ever seen when it comes to what you expect from the "Good wizard" character.

I feel like one of the reasons it's better on reflection is because the ideas and concepts were better than the execution, so it's one that I may look back on and enjoy having a little think about, but at the same time it just didn't do it for me.

I've just started The Steel Remains which is another grimdark fantasy trilogy, anyone read it?
 
First Law is one of those books that becomes better after you finish it. Also, Bayaz is an all time great when it comes to fantasy characters.

I have to agree about the writing though, it isn't that good. However, on each book, the writing becomes better than in the previous ones. Similarly, I think that each book is better than the previous one. Additionally, the sequels (especially Best Served Cold and The Heroes) are far better in every aspect that the trilogy.

For what is worth, I think that now Abercrombie is one of the authors with the best writing (below Rothfuss, Kay and Tolkien, I would say around the same level as Martin, Jordan and Hobb) and it is funny to compare the difference in prose from Half a King to The Blade Itself. His newest trilogy isn't as good as The First Law and standalones, but the writing is better. Saying that, the First Law standalones (the order is The First Law trilogy - Best Served Cold - The Heroes - Red Country) have excellent writing. He is writing now a new trilogy on The First Law world which is the think I am excited most in the genre.
Spot on on there. I was a bit ambivalent in the days after I first finished the trilogy, as I mentioned in my post here when I first finished. But in the following weeks it grew on my as I kept going back to the story in my mind, to the extent that I simply had to pick up the stand-alones. For me, that's when Abercrombie really starts to shine, and the world he has established goes from being mildly interesting to wildly fascinating, to the point where I'm hopping from my Kindle to my phone to google world maps, just to make sure I'm in "the right place" when I'm reading the stories.

I found Abercrombie's ability to juxtapose the characters' own thoughts, emotions and rationalizations for why they behave the way the do against how others perceive them enthralling, and that really shines in the sequels. Especially when you get reacquainted with characters you've gotten to know through the original trilogy. The sequels are also much better written in every way, as you said.

Out of the six books I've read so far, The Heroes was my personal favourite (saving Sharp Ends for a while). I'm really hoping that the new trilogy will focus on the overreaching story arch, but I've come to terms with the fact that Abercrombie is probably going to be staying true to recent form and focus mostly on the story of the people who are but pawns of the powers that truly rule things. I think there's a none-to-well-hidden point of social and philosophical commentary in structuring his stories that way :)

Either way, with the caveat that Sharp Ends might have done something for the overall story, I think it's brilliantly set up right now after the three other stand alone books. The "religious south vs feudal-capitalistic middle/north" power struggle will surely face some curve balls in the years to come?

Thanks again to you @Revan and @Art Vandelay for the recommendation!
 
Spot on on there. I was a bit ambivalent in the days after I first finished the trilogy, as I mentioned in my post here when I first finished. But in the following weeks it grew on my as I kept going back to the story in my mind, to the extent that I simply had to pick up the stand-alones. For me, that's when Abercrombie really starts to shine, and the world he has established goes from being mildly interesting to wildly fascinating, to the point where I'm hopping from my Kindle to my phone to google world maps, just to make sure I'm in "the right place" when I'm reading the stories.

I found Abercrombie's ability to juxtapose the characters' own thoughts, emotions and rationalizations for why they behave the way the do against how others perceive them enthralling, and that really shines in the sequels. Especially when you get reacquainted with characters you've gotten to know through the original trilogy. The sequels are also much better written in every way, as you said.

Out of the six books I've read so far, The Heroes was my personal favourite (saving Sharp Ends for a while). I'm really hoping that the new trilogy will focus on the overreaching story arch, but I've come to terms with the fact that Abercrombie is probably going to be staying true to recent form and focus mostly on the story of the people who are but pawns of the powers that truly rule things. I think there's a none-to-well-hidden point of social and philosophical commentary in structuring his stories that way :)

Either way, with the caveat that Sharp Ends might have done something for the overall story, I think it's brilliantly set up right now after the three other stand alone books. The "religious south vs feudal-capitalistic middle/north" power struggle will surely face some curve balls in the years to come?

Thanks again to you @Revan and @Art Vandelay for the recommendation!
Yep, I agree with pretty much everything there (although Best Served Cold was my favorite, slightly followed by The Heroes).

Sharp Ends is a bit different and most of the stories happen around 2 new characters. They are great though, which make it a very good read.

Also, check his other trilogy, The Shattered Sea. A bit juvenile in comparison, but it is still Abercrombie, and the writing is excellent (a level above standalones). It isn't as good as the works in The First Law, but still a very good reading, and it has a fantastic character in Yarvi.
 
I really want to get Sharp Ends, but I'm still balls deep in Wheel of Time.

I'm torn between between Best Served Cold and The Heroes as my favourite. I enjoyed BSC the whole way through and Castor is one of my favourite characters ever. The Heroes I was actually a bit bored with at times, but by the end loved it. Gorst really stood out in that one for me, he was brilliant. A lot of his characters have a hint of hopeless depression about them.
 
Read the first book of Wax and Wayne. Really enjoyed it! Just simple unassuming reading which is what you need amongst all these heavy substantial fantasy books.