There's something incredibly compelling about the way Robin Hobb writes Fitz. Makes you want to read on and on while she puts him through hell.
Books Fantasy Reads
- Thread starter Alock1
- Start date
Yeah, she's evil.
Fitz is by far the most tragic character I have read about in this genre.
Possibly. Still only a 100 pages in to the book
I started a free sample of Wheel of Time. Jordan can really paint a picture, he's phenomenal at it. Really enjoying it so far my only complaint being the chapters aren't really broken up at all, they are just massive long blurbs.
Enjoy it! It is fantastic until it goes shit.
The first book goes shit or the series in general? I finished the sample and bought the first book as I was really enjoying it. The book itself appears to be dauntingly massive, not sure I'll ever get through the whole series, but it's off to a good start at least so, maybe.
Finished Winter Warriors by David Gemmell last week. Not his best but pretty good. It gets a bit heavy handed at times, but it was a very enjoyable read.
The first 6/7 books are good to great. 8th one is ok. 9th is average and the 10th book is just a waste of paper. 11th one is ok. 12th book is excellent, 13th is average and the last one is quite good albeit the ending didn't make too much sense now that I look back at it.
9th and 10th are IMO very poor. 7th, 8th and 13th are okayish, with all the other books (including the prequel which I would recommend to read between books 7 and 12) are from good to OMG this is fecking brilliant (like books 5 and 12).
The first book is very good, though is plagiarism of Fellowship of the Ring. Better in every aspect though.
Wait till you read Thomas Covenant.
Anyway, finished God Emperor of Dune, and this is the last Dune book I will ever read. A very draining experience, when the author neither tells, nor shows. The majority part of these books is some philosophical mumbo jumbo, when the entire dialogues serve only to make the reader more stupid. And you don't have a clue what is going on, because the author didn't have a clue too.
Started the Lies of Locke Lamora and seems to be bloody fantastic. I am at the very beginning, but it seems to be 'Name of the Wind' quality.
Started the Lies of Locke Lamora and seems to be bloody fantastic. I am at the very beginning, but it seems to be 'Name of the Wind' quality.
It's shit then? 
Read the Greatcoats series up to book 3 from Senastien de Castell. Top stuff.
Read the first two books years ago. Great stuff. Then the author got depressed and did a GRRM. With alot of pooha book three was released more than a year ago. Left it around page 150 and still have yet to pick it yp again.
The first one was very good. My criticism was more for the other three, when pretty much everything happens behind the scenes and all dialogues are cryptic.
Locke doesn't seem arrogant, and neither seems to be the best at everything. Very different to Kvothe as a character.It's shit then?
I was talking about the lies of locke lamora series btw.
Oh and you should read the greatcoats. My taste in books is as good as in players I will have you know.
Ah, thought that you were talking for Dune.
Yep, Lynch seems to suffer a lot from depression, although he seems to be better now. The fourth book 'will' get released this year.
I'm going to add The Lies of Locke Lamora to my list of books to read, I've been hearing good things about it for a while.
I'm almost halfway through the first Wheel of Time book, the individual name of which I can never remember, and it's bloody good. I have one thing that's been bugging me for a while though. The three main women all seem to be more or less the same character right down to their description. They are all various degrees of short, bossy and bitchy with big dark eyes and dark hair. I've put it down to geographical population all being a bit Hispanic looking or something so far, but their characters aren't even that different at the minute. It's a bit odd and I'm tired of reading about them putting their hair over their shoulders. Other than that though it's been really good.
I'm almost halfway through the first Wheel of Time book, the individual name of which I can never remember, and it's bloody good. I have one thing that's been bugging me for a while though. The three main women all seem to be more or less the same character right down to their description. They are all various degrees of short, bossy and bitchy with big dark eyes and dark hair. I've put it down to geographical population all being a bit Hispanic looking or something so far, but their characters aren't even that different at the minute. It's a bit odd and I'm tired of reading about them putting their hair over their shoulders. Other than that though it's been really good.
Added it to my list. Rothfuss is a class apart, and anything close to what he can write deserves a read.
It's shit then?
If you're going to spend so much time thinking about each character in WoT, you have a long long way to go.
"Nynaeve tugs her braid" is going to get irritating very soon.
Male fantasy writers are usually shitty in writing female characters, but Jordan is exceptionally bad at it.
Just ignore them and enjoy the rest of the books.
Just ignore them and enjoy the rest of the books.
Egwene and Nynaeve are at the beginning very similar in character, which is alright considering that Egwene tried to emulate Nynaeve for her entire life.
Moiraine is extremely different though, the ultimate Obi Wan character of fantasy books, and my overall favorite character in the genre.
They are described to look similar but there is a ton of other characters (including the second most important for in the series) who look completely different.
Moiraine is extremely different though, the ultimate Obi Wan character of fantasy books, and my overall favorite character in the genre.
They are described to look similar but there is a ton of other characters (including the second most important for in the series) who look completely different.
Not surprisingly, Robin Hobb has the best set of female characters (well Martin despite being a man, is quite good at it too, but then Martin is a few levels above any other fantasy author when it comes to characters).
Rothfuss ain't bad either tbf.
His characters aren't fleshed out that much, and like Abercrombie's, they aren't very realistic. Still better than most though.
I think in general, we shouldn't hold them to the literary standard of Nobel prize contenders or anything like that, just that too often they fall back to using well known tropes and the female characters are indistinguishable from one book/author to the other. I tend to give the author a pass if the female characters aren't a caricature and have some sorts of interesting trait about them.
Look at it this way, Cersei Lannister is a well written character, but she has nothing to Natasha from War and Peace, Anna Karenina or Catherine from A Farewell to Arms.
Tbh I dont think much of her female characters. Kettricken has her moments i guess and a couple of the Liveships characters are good.
Shes a good character writer but i wouldn't hold her up as shining example of female characterisation in particular. I'd put Rothfuss on her level I think (just for auri if nothing else)
I think GRRM is probably the best of the bunch personally. Arya is still my favourite character from that series
Definitely. But she is till a very realistic character, and a well written character. Other authors in the genre don't manage to do it. Hobb is quite good at it, Rothfuss too but then his main character is as Gary Sue as someone might be, Abercrombie has great characters but they are very unrealistic, Cook doesn't get focused on characters, Sanderson's characters are extremely shallow, Lawrence's and Abraham's are alright I guess, etc etc.
The other thing is that while many authors manage to make a few good characters (Abercrombie has for example Bayaz, Glokta and Logen as all time greats in the genre; Rothfuss has Kvothe, Denna, Elohin and Devi; Sanderson has in Mistborn: Kelsier and Vin (as Mary Sue as possible)), only Martin has managed to actually have tens of characters who are very fleshed out, who have a background and clear motivations, and who actually behave like real people.
It is why I put ASOIAF in a level of its own, despite that there are books which have far better magic systems (everything from Sanderson), better world-building (actually, only Wheel of Time has that), better writing (Rothfuss, Guy Gavriel Kay, Tolkien) and possibly better main stories.
Kettricken is awesome and I was very dissapointed that she was underused in the second Fitz trilogy. Althea, Romanda, Etta and Amber are also very good in Liveship Traders. Malta also did a Sansa-esque transformation there.
I dont remember romanda and etta at all tbh (maybe i should re read that series, its been a while), I didn't like malta and her sansa-esque transformation is as much of a cliche as the mary sues of the genre at this point.
Dont get me wrong, i like Robin Hobb and her characters tend to be some of the better ones. But i think the characters shes really nailed are mostly male - Fitz, Nighteyes, Chade initially (im very bored of him now), The bad guy (name escapes me) and paragon from the liveship traders.
She writes an awesome boat, ill give her that
Finished the Lies of Locke Lamora and it really was great.
Also, I visited Lynch's site, and there he mentioned that the name of Locke comes from Locke of Final Fantasy VI. I was expecting that, considering that both are awesome and funny thieves.
Also, I visited Lynch's site, and there he mentioned that the name of Locke comes from Locke of Final Fantasy VI. I was expecting that, considering that both are awesome and funny thieves.
I don't think I have ever read a series where people haven't moaned about how so and so female character is sooo annoying and how the author cannot write female characters. Most books have some good female characters, some not so good one's. Same as the male characters. I really don't see the need to single out female characters.
Forge of Darkness
Bk 1 of the Kharkanas Trilogy (part of Malazan series)
Though it has some familiar characters, it is a standalone series and you do not need to have read the other books to follow the story. The story is set in Kurald Galain, the Tiste realm and covers their split into Andii, Liosan and Edur.
A marked change of writing style from Erkson. This book is more GRRM'esque with lot of gruesome descriptions of war, killing, rape and psychotic behaviour of the characters. More blood, gore and violence in this than all the Malazan books put together imo. The plot is also more of a ASOIAF'esque drama between royal families, heir to the throne, political back stabbings etc. It has lots of pseudo-philosophical rambling by the characters which can be a slight drag.
Overall Rating: 7.5/10
Bk 1 of the Kharkanas Trilogy (part of Malazan series)
Though it has some familiar characters, it is a standalone series and you do not need to have read the other books to follow the story. The story is set in Kurald Galain, the Tiste realm and covers their split into Andii, Liosan and Edur.
A marked change of writing style from Erkson. This book is more GRRM'esque with lot of gruesome descriptions of war, killing, rape and psychotic behaviour of the characters. More blood, gore and violence in this than all the Malazan books put together imo. The plot is also more of a ASOIAF'esque drama between royal families, heir to the throne, political back stabbings etc. It has lots of pseudo-philosophical rambling by the characters which can be a slight drag.
Overall Rating: 7.5/10
Geez, looks a brilliant series from the description.
I really need to do something about Malazan series. Have been planning to read it for years, but still not started it. Actually, I read the entire Black Company (10 books) just to prepare for Malazan, and for the most part, I loved that series.
But then, Malazan is too intimidating, and there are so many great series that are shorter than it (reading currently Gentlemen Bastards). Not having as much free time as before doesn't help my case.
I wouldn't bother with Malazan. Tried giving Midnight Tides another shot but couldn't read beyond a chapter.
3/4ths of every book is ordinary soldiers discussing life and death and how war has changed them. The other 1/4th is loads of shit happening which Erikson refuses to explain at any proper length leaving anyone who hasn't read the books 5 times before in an utter state of confusion. And power attracts power. This is standard plot device (Deux eh Machina) used in the books to explain away all kinds of shit happening with no logic. And this is just the first half of the series which is apparently a lot better than the 2nd half. The 2nd half is filled with even more philosophical ramblings.
If the wheel of time books needed editing, the Malazan one's need a fecking bulldozer.
3/4ths of every book is ordinary soldiers discussing life and death and how war has changed them. The other 1/4th is loads of shit happening which Erikson refuses to explain at any proper length leaving anyone who hasn't read the books 5 times before in an utter state of confusion. And power attracts power. This is standard plot device (Deux eh Machina) used in the books to explain away all kinds of shit happening with no logic. And this is just the first half of the series which is apparently a lot better than the 2nd half. The 2nd half is filled with even more philosophical ramblings.
If the wheel of time books needed editing, the Malazan one's need a fecking bulldozer.
Can't disagree much with what Akash says except for the 1st line. It is a hard but brilliant read!
Yes, there are philosophical ramblings, yes, the storyline is not linear and characters introduced randomly with split or no backstories. yes, it is very confusing....but still
- on a sheer epic scale, I've not read any books bigger than this.
- the characters are brilliant and leaves you want to get to know them more.
- powerful writing (when not in midst of a philosophical ramble) and the sheer plot keeps you engrossed.
From personal experience, the best way to read Malazan is to keep bulldozing your way forward. If you come across something unexplained or new character, don't stop and go back to check...just carry one and when you reach the end see if all makes sense (and it mostly will).
Just like any other series, it had good and mediocre books (plus unlike other series has standalone novels to confuse things too). Persevere and you'll be rewarded.
Yes, there are philosophical ramblings, yes, the storyline is not linear and characters introduced randomly with split or no backstories. yes, it is very confusing....but still
- on a sheer epic scale, I've not read any books bigger than this.
- the characters are brilliant and leaves you want to get to know them more.
- powerful writing (when not in midst of a philosophical ramble) and the sheer plot keeps you engrossed.
From personal experience, the best way to read Malazan is to keep bulldozing your way forward. If you come across something unexplained or new character, don't stop and go back to check...just carry one and when you reach the end see if all makes sense (and it mostly will).
Just like any other series, it had good and mediocre books (plus unlike other series has standalone novels to confuse things too). Persevere and you'll be rewarded.
@Akash @Edgar Allan Pillow
I hate philosophical rambling, and definitely hate 'tell, but don't show'. Reading the Dune books was a torture (the first one was quite good though, despite the philosophical rambling there). They were really ridiculous, with most of the dialogues having nothing to do with anything. A text random generator (with some edit) might have done a better job.
Incidentally, I have read that there are similarities between those two, which is a reason why I haven't read Malazan yet. And the main reason, why I haven't read yet 'The Second Apocalypse' from Bakker.
If it is anything like Dune, then really, I should not read it. On the other side, if it is similar to The Black Company (whom Eriksen considers as his main inspiration from Malazan, and the seventh Malazan book is dedicated to it) then I would enjoy it a lot. A very big dilemma for me.
I hate philosophical rambling, and definitely hate 'tell, but don't show'. Reading the Dune books was a torture (the first one was quite good though, despite the philosophical rambling there). They were really ridiculous, with most of the dialogues having nothing to do with anything. A text random generator (with some edit) might have done a better job.
Incidentally, I have read that there are similarities between those two, which is a reason why I haven't read Malazan yet. And the main reason, why I haven't read yet 'The Second Apocalypse' from Bakker.
If it is anything like Dune, then really, I should not read it. On the other side, if it is similar to The Black Company (whom Eriksen considers as his main inspiration from Malazan, and the seventh Malazan book is dedicated to it) then I would enjoy it a lot. A very big dilemma for me.
I thought you liked it in Darth Revan book
Tbh, the ramblings are not really that bad. They are a bit of a drag on the story's pace, but not really a major show stopper.It is very difficult to classify Malazan as each book/novel is different from the other (and so to compare to Black Company or other series). It is at best taken one at a time. Gardens of the Moon is a personal favourite of mine and a good starting point for the whole plot. Start from there and see how it goes....
It is simple initially...there are 3 major story arcs which merge at the end.
Arc 1: Follows Ganoes Paran and Bridgeburners - #1 Gardens of the Moon and #3 Memories of Ice
Arc 2: Follows Tavore Paran and Bonehunters - #2 Deadhouse Gates, #4 House of Chains and #6 Bonehunters
Arc 3: Continent of Lether - #5 Midnight Tides and #7 Reapers Gale
After that the arcs merge together (to an extent) but may plots can continue in parallel (still).
Arc 1 is my favourite. Bloody brilliant. Dies down mostly after Memories of Ice and remaining scraps move straight to the plot end.
Arc 2 is a bit more melodramatic (still good) and #6 Bonehunters is a brilliant book. Merges with Arc 3 down the line.
Arc 3 is main series plot and continues till the end with other arcs merging into this. Good read, I rate this less for personal reasons as my favourite characters are in Arc 1.
The plot gets a bit confusing when you reach books 8,9 and 10 when the actual merging happens.
The novellas give more perspective and if read in order is a bit more enlightening.
Whether you complete it or not...Gardens of the Moon and Memories are Ice are worth the read themselves.
Thanks!I thought you liked it in Darth Revan book
It is very difficult to classify Malazan as each book/novel is different from the other (and so to compare to Black Company or other series). It is at best taken one at a time. Gardens of the Moon is a personal favourite of mine and a good starting point for the whole plot. Start from there and see how it goes....
It is simple initially...there are 3 major story arcs which merge at the end.
Arc 1: Follows Ganoes Paran and Bridgeburners - #1 Gardens of the Moon and #3 Memories of Ice
Arc 2: Follows Tavore Paran and Bonehunters - #2 Deadhouse Gates, #4 House of Chains and #6 Bonehunters
Arc 3: Continent of Lether - #5 Midnight Tides and #7 Reapers Gale
After that the arcs merge together (to an extent) but may plots can continue in parallel (still).
Arc 1 is my favourite. Bloody brilliant. Dies down mostly after Memories of Ice and remaining scraps move straight to the plot end.
Arc 2 is a bit more melodramatic (still good) and #6 Bonehunters is a brilliant book. Merges with Arc 3 down the line.
Arc 3 is main series plot and continues till the end with other arcs merging into this. Good read, I rate this less for personal reasons as my favourite characters are in Arc 1.
The plot gets a bit confusing when you reach books 8,9 and 10 when the actual merging happens.
The novellas give more perspective and if read in order is a bit more enlightening.
Was there so much rambling on Revan's book? I don't remember. In fact, I think that Karpyshyn is a bit like a worse version of Sanderson as a writer, making relatively fast stories.
Also, that was just the conclusion (in reality no considering that his story continues in The Old Republic MMORPG) of a character who was the main protagonist of my favorite video game, and an influence of an another game I loved. As a standalone, likely it wouldn't have made much impression on me.
Agree with Edgar. It's best to read Malazan by just keeping on and be confused at times
It is a really epic tale in the end.
It is a really epic tale in the end.