Fans behaviour

France's sports minister says Liverpool fans without valid tickets caused the initial crowd problems at Saturday's Champions League final in Paris.
 
Kag said:
The biggest issue to me seems to be the deliberate decision to funnel thousands of supporters through a two metre gap between a riot van and a brick wall.
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That's not a huge issue per se. It's when the stewards started lying that people with real tickets had 'fake' tickets and then abandoning the only funnel in you're going to get slightly worried and miffed people. And then tear gassing them, mostly women and children, then there's a real worry. I certainly wouldn't be laughing or casting aspersions if these were Utd supporting women and children.

I know a minority of other Pool fans might, but I like to think I have more empathy and class.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I don't think this is true. At international level England has poorly behaved fans but at club level hooliganism is rare these days. Admittedly the recent pitch invasions and assaults are a concerning new development and something needs to be done about that.

It's a little surprising coming from a German criticising English fans when Frankfurt fans have been causing trouble throughout their UEFA Europa League campaign. If English fans had behaved like the Frankfurt hooligans there'd be multiple threads on it.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/18738...gans-ahead-of-antwerp-frankfurt-football-game

https://talksport.com/football/1102...cannons-eintracht-frankfurt-hooligans-attack/

https://www.sportbible.com/football...ck-rangers-supporters-ahead-of-final-20220518

For all that talk of how bad the West Ham and Rangers fans are they were throughly outdone by their German counterparts
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I was referring to the what goes on inside and around stadiums, because they are a contained environment, where it's actually possible to expect a tight security concept and some element of fans keeping each other in line.
What happens outside the grounds is another matter entirely.
 
We’ve had a resurgence in racism and now this. It’s worryingly contagious. There’s little hope of England fans letting a World Cup pass without getting in on the act. Hooliganism is back but it’s just getting started.
 
Dumbstar said:
That's not a huge issue per se. It's when the stewards started lying that people with real tickets had 'fake' tickets and then abandoning the only funnel in you're going to get slightly worried and miffed people. And then tear gassing them, mostly women and children, then there's a real worry. I certainly wouldn't be laughing or casting aspersions if these were Utd supporting women and children.

I know a minority of other Pool fans might, but I like to think I have more empathy and class.
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Is that a fact then? That they were deliberately targeting women and children with tear gas?
 
We made a rod for our own back with the behaviour at the Euro Championships final. Any progress we had made in shedding our hooligan reputation over the previous 20 or 30 years was ruined in one night.
 
There is very little doubt in my mind that the majority of police etc. on the continent treat English fans differently, as has been said by multiple people, there is just a never-ending list of previous bad behaviour to draw from, and I'm sure it influences people. When I was at the Euros in 2016, all you heard people talking about was the behaviour of the English fans. An awful lot of bad apples ruining it for everyone. Also, people say jibbing at this level is always going to occur anywhere, I don't recall hearing about it happening consistently at CL or Europa finals?
 
Ludens the Red said:
Is that a fact then? That they were deliberately targeting women and children with tear gas?
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Not the stewards. The french police used tear gas to get people to back off from the gate. According to them there was a huge risk for life losses if some iron gates were to fall down.

People pushing these gates are brainless…
 
do.ob said:
I was referring to the what goes on inside and around stadiums, because they are a contained environment, where it's actually possible to expect a tight security concept and some element of fans keeping each other in line.
What happens outside the grounds is another matter entirely.
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Agree about the (lack of) organization: Dortmund fans tried to do the same here at Portugal in the game against Sporting but they couldn't even get close to the gates, as the police intercepted them way before they could gang up near the gates. They later caused some chaos in the city, but no serious damage was done.
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This was posted on the previous page by a Portuguese poster and we saw a lot of French fans jibbing at the weekend. Frankfurt fans also invaded the pitch which is one of the pictures in the article I posted so I'm not sure it's fair to pin this on English fans specifically. The English NT and Liverpool also played in the highest profile games of the past couple of years where these issues occurred.

Lets say the fake ticket issue was the principal cause as has been claimed. Going forward the solution is simple. UEFA need to step away from issuing paper tickets which is now antiquated technology. They should go digital like Ticketmaster and only allow ticket transfers to be done on their website and at face value. I think this would hinder the fake ticket market significantly.
 
Cast your mind back to the Derby at the Emptyhad when Rio was injured by a coin that hit him just above the eye. Despite having ‘The best stadium in the country’ at the time, not one City fan was sanctioned despite multiple cctv cameras. ‘Fans’ get away with bad behaviour as the clubs ca be arsed. I will refrain from talking about the saintly Liverpool fans that wreck the toilets at OT, stole tickets from their own fans in Istanbul when they miraculously came back to win a match against a team that had been found guilty of betting fraud.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This was posted on the previous page by a Portuguese poster and we saw a lot of French fans jibbing at the weekend. Frankfurt fans also invaded the pitch which is one of the pictures in the article I posted so I'm not sure it's fair to pin this on English fans specifically. The English NT and Liverpool also played in the highest profile games of the past couple of years where these issues occurred.

Lets say the fake ticket issue was the principal cause as has been claimed. Going forward the solution is simple. UEFA need to step away from issuing paper tickets which is now antiquated technology. They should go digital like Ticketmaster and only allow ticket transfers to be done on their website and at face value. I think this would hinder the fake ticket market significantly.
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I don’t think this will ever happen. It’s been obvious to me for a long time that ticket touting involves Uefa and the players themselves. A lot of these tickets, I am, certain are offset by uefa and the players to these ticket selling agencies who sell for an extortionate price and some of the profits go up to uefa and the players themselves.
 
reddyornot said:
France's sports minister says Liverpool fans without valid tickets caused the initial crowd problems at Saturday's Champions League final in Paris.
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During the game they talked about around 40k Liverpool fans trying to force their way into the stadium without a ticket? This just blows my mind, Liverpool fans of all the fans around the world should know best the catastrophic consequences that overcrowded stadiums can cause.
 
NoLogo said:
During the game they talked about around 40k Liverpool fans trying to force their way into the stadium without a ticket? This just blows my mind, Liverpool fans of all the fans around the world should know best the catastrophic consequences that overcrowded stadiums can cause.
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40k fans trying to get in without tickets would be an actual bonafide riot....I heard there were 40k thousand Pool fans in the Fanzone which strangely was as without incident as could be expected.....perhaps that's what they were referring to?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This was posted on the previous page by a Portuguese poster and we saw a lot of French fans jibbing at the weekend. Frankfurt fans also invaded the pitch which is one of the pictures in the article I posted so I'm not sure it's fair to pin this on English fans specifically. The English NT and Liverpool also played in the highest profile games of the past couple of years where these issues occurred.

Lets say the fake ticket issue was the principal cause as has been claimed. Going forward the solution is simple. UEFA need to step away from issuing paper tickets which is now antiquated technology. They should go digital like Ticketmaster and only allow ticket transfers to be done on their website and at face value. I think this would hinder the fake ticket market significantly.
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The poster you're referring to already highlighted the difference: during the incident he describes things were apparently (able to be) stopped in their tracks, be that because of less criminal energy or a better security concept. Meanwhile we have video of lots of Liverpool fans breaking through an entrance and of course the footage from the Euros. This is also the first time I've been made aware of fake tickets causing significant problems.

Pitch invasions aren't inherently violent. I'm fairly sure a club like Frankfurt actually welcomes them (inofficially). In the incident you picked there were stewards watching out for opposition players, you had police positioned in front of the away block to prevent escalation between both sets of fans and they also established a larger safety cushion once Frankfurt fans approached. To me that looks like a clear difference (except for David Moyes attempts to hurt a ball boy of course) compared to the assaults we've seen in the English game and the scenes from the ASSE game.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This was posted on the previous page by a Portuguese poster and we saw a lot of French fans jibbing at the weekend. Frankfurt fans also invaded the pitch which is one of the pictures in the article I posted so I'm not sure it's fair to pin this on English fans specifically. The English NT and Liverpool also played in the highest profile games of the past couple of years where these issues occurred.

Lets say the fake ticket issue was the principal cause as has been claimed. Going forward the solution is simple. UEFA need to step away from issuing paper tickets which is now antiquated technology. They should go digital like Ticketmaster and only allow ticket transfers to be done on their website and at face value. I think this would hinder the fake ticket market significantly.
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That sounds like a really great idea.

No chance of it happening then......Eufa, like FIFA are as corrupt as fek.
 
do.ob said:
The poster you're referring to already highlighted the difference: during the incident he describes things were (able to be) stopped in their tracks, be that because of less criminal energy or a better security concept. Meanwhile we have video of lots of Liverpool fans breaking through an entrance and of course the footage from the Euros. This is also the first time I've been made aware of fake tickets causing significant problems.

Pitch invasions aren't inherently violent. I'm fairly sure a club like Frankfurt actually welcomes them (inofficially). In the incident you picked there were stewards watching out for opposition players, you had police positioned in front of the away block to prevent escalation between both sets of fans and they also established a larger safety cushion once Frankfurt fans approached. To me that looks like a clear difference compared to the assaults we've seen in the English game (except for David Moyes attempts to hurt a ball boy of course) and the scenes from the ASSE game.
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And what about these?







All from this season. All more violent than what happened in England where the pitch invasions were celebratory with a couple of individuals hitting a player.

Still an English problem?
 
NoLogo said:
During the game they talked about around 40k Liverpool fans trying to force their way into the stadium without a ticket? This just blows my mind, Liverpool fans of all the fans around the world should know best the catastrophic consequences that overcrowded stadiums can cause.
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This is a lie. For a range of reasons also mathematically impossible from a logistical perspective.

It seems overwhelmingly clear to me that UEFA and the French authorities were negligent and could have been responsible for mass deaths. Now comes the cover up; we’ve seen this time and time before.
 
It's slightly dispiriting how quick opposition fans are to rip into Liverpool fans when the bigger issue should be UEFA treating match-going fans like shit.

It seems particularly self-defeating for English fans given you could easily find yourselves in a similar situation in the future, with the reputation English fans carry being used as justifcation for you being mistreated.
 
sullydnl said:
It's slightly dispiriting how quick opposition fans are to rip into Liverpool fans when the bigger issue should be UEFA treating match-going fans like shit.

It seems particularly self-defeating for English fans given you could easily find yourselves in a similar situation in the future, with the reputation English fans carry being used as justifcation for you being mistreated.
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I actually think both side are to blame. Actually think the organisation was atrocious and is mainly to blame.
 



Still seeing the narrative pushed that it was only Liverpool's end were the problems were coming from. Plenty coming out to the contrary.

I'm a beautiful thing said:
It always happens with Liverpool,the most hypocritical fans in the world
Always offended,never ashamed
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But the 'typical scousers' narrative will stay strong regardless. Some of you lot are begging to live in a police state.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
And what about these?







All from this season. All more violent than what happened in England where the pitch invasions were celebratory with a couple of individuals hitting a player.

Still an English problem?
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Stuff like this is probably also part of the reason why the French police doesn't feck around when it comes to football fans "misbehaving".
 
Classical Mechanic said:
And what about these?







All from this season. All more violent than what happened in England where the pitch invasions were celebratory with a couple of individuals hitting a player.

Still an English problem?
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Just a few hours ago you quoted this post of mine.

Every country has its problems, but my impression is that things seem worse in England (e.g. fans headbutting players, the stuff that happened at the Euros) and France than elsewhere.
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To clarify things I'll also add that Lens, Lille, Nice, Marseille, Saint-Etienne and Auxerre are in fact French cities located in France.

The very post you are quoting here also contains this part:
" scenes from the ASSE game"
 
do.ob said:
Just a few hours ago you quoted this post of mine.



To clarify things I'll also add that Lens, Lille, Nice, Marseille, Saint-Etienne and Auxerre are in fact French cities located in France.
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Fair enough. I read that as meaning what happened in France with the Liverpool fans. I think you are right in that German policing is more effective but in the UK it would be seen as regressive to have riot police in numbers inside the ground at football matches. I think a different solution will be sought.
 
sullydnl said:
It's slightly dispiriting how quick opposition fans are to rip into Liverpool fans when the bigger issue should be UEFA treating match-going fans like shit.

It seems particularly self-defeating for English fans given you could easily find yourselves in a similar situation in the future, with the reputation English fans carry being used as justifcation for you being mistreated.
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I think people are taking umbrage with the fact that a lot of Liverpool fans seem to be solely blaming UEFA, when it's clear a portion of their fans are absolute idiots, with many of them breaking into the final and causing a lot of the issues, meaning people that actually paid for tickets got shafted. It can be more than 1 groups fault.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Fair enough. I read that as meaning what happened in France with the Liverpool fans. I think you are right in that German policing is more effective but in the UK it would be seen as regressive to have riot police in numbers inside the ground at football matches. I think a different solution will be sought.
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Who cares how it's 'seen' if it stops people from running onto the pitch and assaulting players/staff?
 
DoubleDinhos said:
I'm not saying there were no issues, and no doubt a tiny minority did take the piss trying to jib in. Any event with tens of thousands of fans is going to have those problems. In fact, many of the journalist reports said that the fake tickets and ticketless were less than pre-pandemic levels for a European cup final.

But because a few context-less videos are shared, where it is unclear what has gone on before (if fans are being overcrowded and bottle-necked by poorly organised check-point system typically you want to get away), plenty have taken the bait and accepted fans being made the scapegoat. The problem is how working-class people continue to get treated like scum by fascist policing practices. It's not 'sad' that people and children were traumatised just going the game, it's an outrage. Again, no doubt some Liverpool fans made the situation worse, but every credible source says they weren't the issue. The fact that so many are ignoring that and seeing it as an opportunity to lay it on further is what really depresses me. This isn't a point-scoring moment. I'd think the exact same if it was United fans getting attacked and demonised.
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Why no problems with the Madrid fans, then?

Or are they not downtrodden, working class enough to be attacked by the police?

Liverpool fans doing what they do best, yet again.
 
Dansk said:
Yeah, there's two distinct stories: the one that English media is sticking to, and then the one that the entire rest of the world does. We can see the videos and images with our own eyes. People in Liverpool kit climbing fences, charging through barricades, etc. Unless they want to claim it was some kind of fecking false flag operation made to discredit them, it's pretty obvious what happened. I quite doubt that a gang of local French youth would go out and buy Liverpool shirts and carry out a false flag attack on their own stadium just to make LFC look bad.
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The organization was poor and the police were, at times, heavy handed but why can't some people admit that some Liverpool fans were guilty of storming the stewards and climbing barriers etc. They need to accept a small part of the resonsibility for what happened. The English media are just lying to the public by saying that Liverpool fans were not involved, when we've all seen video footage of them doing exactly that.
Conor said:
I think people are taking umbrage with the fact that a lot of Liverpool fans seem to be solely blaming UEFA, when it's clear a portion of their fans are absolute idiots, with many of them breaking into the final and causing a lot of the issues, meaning people that actually paid for tickets got shafted. It can be more than 1 groups fault.
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Although there are plenty of video footage doing the rounds clearly showing LFC fans climbing barracades and storming the stewards etc. none of the mainstream English media outets have either reported or shown it.
Obvious problems with organisation, stewarding and policing but no talk of the LFC fans part in this, even with proof.
 
Barnslig said:
Who cares how it's 'seen' if it stops people from running onto the pitch and assaulting players/staff?
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This is a fairly recent development. If it didn't happen before without riot police then there's no reason why it cant go back to that. Fan behaviour seems to have taken a turn for the worse since the pandemic.

I think there's a different attitude towards policing in the UK than there is in a lot of European countries. Boris Johnson famously bought some watercannons from Germany when he was London mayor but wasn't ever able to get them into service because their use was too politically controversial.

I'm not saying that the UK police aren't without a lot of ills (they are) but I think riot police at games would be something like a last resort.
 
All those footages and shots of liverpool supporter acting up and it's not our faults laa, it's the evil UEFA

Maybe they minddroned the scousers into acting like savages.

Yes you may have legit ticket but for feck sake que up properly
 


Some interesting claims:
-around 40k fake tickets from Liverpool fans
-similar issues in the 2019 Liverpool vs Spurs final
-" patently only in football with certain English clubs that these events happen"

I assume a response will follow quickly.
 
do.ob said:


Some interesting claims:
-around 40k fake tickets from Liverpool fans
-similar issues in the 2019 Liverpool vs Spurs final
-" patently only in football with certain English clubs that these events happen"

I assume a response will follow quickly.
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Similar issues at the 2019 final? I don't remember that. From having a look on Google there were some crime gangs in Madrid selling fake tickets but was there anything like what happened at the weekend? Maybe there was but I don't remember it and couldn't find anything about crowd trouble.
 
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