Facebook, Amazon etc....

oneniltothearsenal said:
We might need another thread here but why is this evil?

Its not a new thing for a business to provide something at a loss or even for free. There is a great example in the book/movie Molly's Game about this guy who attended these high stakes poker games and was losing 100-200K every time. So Molly called him aside and said he was the worst poker player and she wanted to kick him out of the game for his own good. But he convinced her to let him stay in the game. Then they found out while he was losing a few hundred thousand every week, he was gaining clients for his hedge fund that were worth tens of millions so he was making more money in the end than he was losing in the game.

So really Amazon is a technology and logistics company. The products they offer us cheap is not their actual business, which is technological logistics innovation. They have absolutely innovated commercial (possibly even military) logistics over the last 20 years. And their technology is so cutting edge the CIA chose to partner with them for the CIA's new 600M data center. Amazon's true business is really just technological logistics and communications innovation.
Click to expand...

This is thread worthy
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
We might need another thread here but why is this evil?

Its not a new thing for a business to provide something at a loss or even for free. There is a great example in the book/movie Molly's Game about this guy who attended these high stakes poker games and was losing 100-200K every time. So Molly called him aside and said he was the worst poker player and she wanted to kick him out of the game for his own good. But he convinced her to let him stay in the game. Then they found out while he was losing a few hundred thousand every week, he was gaining clients for his hedge fund that were worth tens of millions so he was making more money in the end than he was losing in the game.

So really Amazon is a technology and logistics company. The products they offer us cheap is not their actual business, which is technological logistics innovation. They have absolutely innovated commercial (possibly even military) logistics over the last 20 years. And their technology is so cutting edge the CIA chose to partner with them for the CIA's new 600M data center. Amazon's true business is really just technological logistics and communications innovation.
Click to expand...
I'd like to know more about this. Could you direct me to some good reads on the subject?
 
 
Last edited:
oneniltothearsenal said:
We might need another thread here but why is this evil?

Its not a new thing for a business to provide something at a loss or even for free. There is a great example in the book/movie Molly's Game about this guy who attended these high stakes poker games and was losing 100-200K every time. So Molly called him aside and said he was the worst poker player and she wanted to kick him out of the game for his own good. But he convinced her to let him stay in the game. Then they found out while he was losing a few hundred thousand every week, he was gaining clients for his hedge fund that were worth tens of millions so he was making more money in the end than he was losing in the game.

So really Amazon is a technology and logistics company. The products they offer us cheap is not their actual business, which is technological logistics innovation. They have absolutely innovated commercial (possibly even military) logistics over the last 20 years. And their technology is so cutting edge the CIA chose to partner with them for the CIA's new 600M data center. Amazon's true business is really just technological logistics and communications innovation.
Click to expand...

The major risk with Amazon is that once they have killed off enough of their competition, they'll jack up the prices to start making a profit finally. It's the same risk with Uber. You have to have a lot of faith in antitrust laws to think that's not even a possibility.
 
Revan said:
For as long as trading has existed, people buy stuff cheaper than they sell. For amazon that isn't the case, they can sell stuff cheaper than they have bought as long as their stock value goes up. And their stock value goes up while they grow.

For almost every quarter of their existence they have reported losses, but now are almost becoming the richest company in the world, and their CEO has become the richest man in the planet. While tens of thousands of businesses go out cause it is totally impossible to compete against them.
Click to expand...

They have started posting profits in the last few years though - especially last year after Trump's new tax plan.
 
SaintTresano said:
Just happened to me recently in a similar fashion. I met these two young ladies from NY in Miami this past weekend, and when I searched for the name on FB, they were the first result each. It's as if FB knew our devices were next to each other.
Click to expand...

And are you actually offended by this? That sounds like great service to me - one of the reasons Facebook is so good.

I find this outrage a bit weird. Your getting a 'free' service from Facebook, they use your own data to make the service even better but it's grossly offensive. I don't personally really give a shit with my data - the average persons data is worth the square root of feck all, but as a collective with millions of other people is where it becomes much more useful for marketing reasons.
 
Tarrou said:
They have started posting profits in the last few years though - especially last year after Trump's new tax plan.
Click to expand...
Yep, they have started posting profits since 2014 (or was it 2015) but that is more because of Amazon cloud services. Amazon retail still loses money.
 
Last edited:
Skills said:
And are you actually offended by this? That sounds like great service to me - one of the reasons Facebook is so good.
Click to expand...
I never implied — it was just a short anecdote.

Skills said:
I find this outrage a bit weird. Your getting a 'free' service from Facebook, they use your own data to make the service even better but it's grossly offensive. I don't personally really give a shit with my data - the average persons data is worth the square root of feck all, but as a collective with millions of other people is where it becomes much more useful for marketing reasons.
Click to expand...

I disagree about not caring about your data. In a consumer market, the more data the seller has on you, the less bargaining power you have, theoretically speaking. And that's just a consumer/sales aspect. There are probably bigger ideas to do with your data, but who knows what, and to whose benefit?
 
Revan said:
For as long as trading has existed, people buy stuff cheaper than they sell. For amazon that isn't the case, they can sell stuff cheaper than they have bought as long as their stock value goes up. And their stock value goes up while they grow.

For almost every quarter of their existence they have reported losses, but now are almost becoming the richest company in the world, and their CEO has become the richest man in the planet. While tens of thousands of businesses go out cause it is totally impossible to compete against them.
Click to expand...

Anti-trust watchdogs spend too much time bickering over M&As, and would do well to shine a closer light on companies like Amazon and Uber.
 
adexkola said:
Anti-trust watchdogs spend too much time bickering over M&As, and would do well to shine a closer light on companies like Amazon and Uber.
Click to expand...

They aren't likely to spend much time on this as long as the likes of Walmart and Lyft are around.
 
adexkola said:
Anti-trust watchdogs spend too much time bickering over M&As, and would do well to shine a closer light on companies like Amazon and Uber.
Click to expand...

Is there actually antitrust action regarding M&As? Like are they reviewing planned M&As?
 
adexkola said:
This is a regular procedure in any M&A involving huge companies.
Click to expand...
Allright. Can you like me something educational? Last thing I read was the Stiglitz thing a few month back and I remember that having no M&A control was a major point of criticism.
 
Javi said:
Allright. Can you like me something educational? Last thing I read was the Stiglitz thing a few month back and I remember that having no M&A control was a major point of criticism.
Click to expand...

This is on the US side.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers

The company I work for has one merger pending, but the main hold-up is government approval both in the US and the EU. Doesn't help that competitors are crying foul about the move.
 
Raoul said:
Click to expand...


Instagram is the obvious one missing. I heard it's very popular with kids these days and it would compliment WhatsApp (private messages) and reddit (topic related) very well.
 
Javi said:
Instagram is the obvious one missing. I heard it's very popular with kids these days and it would compliment WhatsApp (private messages) and reddit (topic related) very well.
Click to expand...

Yes, I don't know why the likes of Insta and Snap aren't included on the list.
 
Raoul said:
Click to expand...


To be fair to Facebook it kinda transcended “Google search” status rather than peaked and regressed as per the time line of that graph. I suspect 99% of people have the app, a bookmark or an auto fill to direct them there without the need for a Google.
 
Pexbo said:
To be fair to Facebook it kinda transcended “Google search” status rather than peaked and regressed as per the time line of that graph. I suspect 99% of people have the app, a bookmark or an auto fill to direct them there without the need for a Google.
Click to expand...

In addition if you look in the replies at the popularity of each search term in absolute terms rather than their relative popularity Facebook is in a different stratosphere still.
 
Are people actually surprised by all this? Those tech giants know more about you than you know yourself, but that does not stop people putting their entire lives on social media, and then act outraged that this sort of thing happens.
 
Pexbo said:
To be fair to Facebook it kinda transcended “Google search” status rather than peaked and regressed as per the time line of that graph. I suspect 99% of people have the app, a bookmark or an auto fill to direct them there without the need for a Google.
Click to expand...

Yep, 90% of Facebook traffic is through the app
 
Eboue said:
amazon is absolutely evil but its not because they pushed out other companies its because of how they treat their employees
Click to expand...

They pay above the market rate and offer full benefits. In return they expect high productivity. Some people simply can't hack it and others stay and enjoy the environment a lot.

Relying on a few stories mainly provided by disgruntled employees is not a reliable way of judging a company. Their glassdoor rating is 3.8/5, from over 20,000 employee reviews. That is a very good company rating when you consider many disgruntled employees write review while people that thrive at Amazon probably don't bother.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Amazon-Reviews-E6036.htm
 
Mike Schatner said:
Relying on a few stories mainly provided by disgruntled employees is not a reliable way of judging a company.
Click to expand...

Thats not what a rely on. I work for a logistics company and Amazon is one of our biggest customers. The things I see and hear back up the numerous articles exposing their treatment of employees.
 
Eboue said:
Thats not what a rely on. I work for a logistics company and Amazon is one of our biggest customers. The things I see and hear back up the numerous articles exposing their treatment of employees.
Click to expand...


Explain the glassdoor rating then.

Its a tough environment for sure and many just can't hack it. A lot can't bear being separated form their precious cell phones for a few hours, others can't handle hard work.

My son has worked for Amazon since 2015. He has seen the good, bad and ugly. Some people fold under pressure others thrive.
 
entropy said:
It is actually common knowledge how amazon underpays their employees. They actually go after cities with high unemployment rate to hire warehouse personnel. Have you read this?@Mike Schatner

https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...-how-amazon-treats-their-90000-warehouse.html
Click to expand...

Amazon build their distribution network based on multiple factors. Access to transportation networks is by far the biggest factor when opening new locations. My son is at his 4th facility now. None of them were in high unemployment locations, and all of them paid 20-25% above market rate for unskilled workers, plus offered much better benefits than comparable jobs. You simply can't open a facility and expect to hire 3,000+ staff paying under market.
 
entropy said:
Thanks for dismissing the article based on anecdotal evidence, mike. That really is the way forward.
Click to expand...


I have read many articles and watched a lot of videos on Amazon. The majority have an agenda and are pretty biased. Spent a lot of time researching the company when my son got his offer. Its a tough environment where the strong do very well and the weak fall by the wayside.

The glassdoor rating would be under two if it was a really bad place to work. I think the highest rated company I have worked at was 3.8, and I have worked at some pretty good companies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.