Goooose
New Member
So this thread is still open, is it back on or something?
Can we just pretend it's back on? I'm at work all weekend and need something to obsess over.
So this thread is still open, is it back on or something?
Can we just pretend it's back on? I'm at work all weekend and need something to obsess over.
We'll find you a new home.
How about the Modric thread?
That'll work, I need my muppet fix. I just can't stay away from it, even asked to be banned from the transfer forum until it was closed.
This is the bit I fail to understand some peoples mentality on.
WHY is is a waste of time to try and sign a world class player? You will probably say "because we didnt sign him" but sure if you dont try, you will never get!
WHY is it "a bit daft" to persue players of the likes of Fabregas? Should we just let Barca and Real Madrid walk over the transfer markets doing the same thing and not attempt to do the same thing ourselves?
This is the bit I fail to understand some peoples mentality on.
WHY is is a waste of time to try and sign a world class player? You will probably say "because we didnt sign him" but sure if you dont try, you will never get!
WHY is it "a bit daft" to persue players of the likes of Fabregas? Should we just let Barca and Real Madrid walk over the transfer markets doing the same thing and not attempt to do the same thing ourselves?
It's not a daft thing to chase Fabregas - what's daft is getting people's hopes up by revealing it in the press and then not pulling it off. I don't think anyone thinks it's a mad thing to do in principle.
This is the bit I fail to understand some peoples mentality on.
WHY is is a waste of time to try and sign a world class player? You will probably say "because we didnt sign him" but sure if you dont try, you will never get!
WHY is it "a bit daft" to persue players of the likes of Fabregas? Should we just let Barca and Real Madrid walk over the transfer markets doing the same thing and not attempt to do the same thing ourselves?
You keep saying the same thing. When we bid a starting amount we know its not going to be accepted. But we are trying to gauge how much higher they want. Lets say our 35m for Cesc was accepted. If we started at 40m, would that be a bigger loss for us? They might have rejected our 40m first bid due to the fact that we would be willing to pay more than 40m which means he will cost us even more.
Let's stipulate neither one of us have any idea what was discussed between the two clubs for Fabregas. With that, an opening bid of 25m was never going to result in a bid that would result in a final bid that would ever be accepted by Barcelona. Isn't it reasonable to believe that, given the insanity of today's market, it would have taken about 50m to pry Fabregas loose? Yes, it is.
Remember...Barcelona had previously NEVER publicly expressed any interest in selling and Fabregas had previously NEVER expressed any interest in leaving, so it's not as though there was any justifiable reason to think a we could get Fabregas on the cheap.
Maybe we would never have considered going that high (you think?) but if we were, it's not reasonable to believe we would have been willing to double our original offer of 25m to eventually get to 50m.
What are the feck are you talking about again? We NEED both a creative midfielder and a defensive mid. The latter is obviously going to be backup for Carrick. But Carrick cant go on forever, so we need a replacement soon.
Young Luke, you confuse what we want with what we need. You've argued against your own point by acknowledging that that we only need a backup for Carrick "SOON", while implicitly conceding we need a starting creative playmaker NOW. The hole we have in the latter position (creative midfielder) is more akin to a crisis than the hole we have in the former position (the need for cover for Carrick). I'm a huge believer in ensuring depth in the squad, but if we're looking at a more immediate need the vastly greater immediate need is that of a creative midfielder. There's simply no question about this whatsoever.
I agree, Carrick can't go on forever and that we need "a replacement soon"; but we need a solution to the creative midfield position NOW.
This is the bit I fail to understand some peoples mentality on.
WHY is is a waste of time to try and sign a world class player? You will probably say "because we didnt sign him" but sure if you dont try, you will never get!
WHY is it "a bit daft" to persue players of the likes of Fabregas? Should we just let Barca and Real Madrid walk over the transfer markets doing the same thing and not attempt to do the same thing ourselves?
The reason Real and Barcelona dominate the market is because they pay, and they pay very well, often over the odds. Until United are willing to step over that mark again they won't secure world-class players. Van Persie was for me the exception that proves the rule. His circumstances were very different.
Its a waste of time because the club didn't even get to speak to the player...no sit down to convince him. It took them a considerable amount of time to make 2 bids that are absolutely nowhere near what Barcelona would be inclined to accept, particularly after just selling their finest young midfield talent to another main European rival. Yes United asked, but they didn't ask in a convincing way. They talked a lot about it to the media though, why I will never fully understand. If they truly want Fabregas, and had encouragement, they should have asked Barcelona what they wanted for the player. If the money is there then cough up. If Woodward and Moyes hadn't spent time suggesting we had a pit of cash then I wouldn't be puzzled.
We really have people now discussing tactics for transfers?
How do you know what dialogue they had with Barcelona?
This season can't kick off quick enough
The thing is, it is always implied that transfers very rarely take place in reality as they appear in the media. By this I mean, a bid does not come out of nowhere randomly, with a random figure - generally, the implication is either/or the player and the selling club are contacted to guage openness and willingness to do a deal. Hence, when offers are made public, the feeling is rarely 'oh, let's hope the player has some willingness to join and club has willingness to sell' - the issue is often 'let's hope we can agree terms, or club x does not steal'.
Barcelona are not fecking Fulham, you cannot just make offers for the better players of elite clubs. Transfers do not appear to work that way. Otherwise, clubs would just be putting in offers for Iniesta or Schweinsteiger on the basis that they would 'like them in their team'.
Yes, we all want our team to go after the best players. That said, I do not take the lack of threads and posters calling for us to bid for Messi as evidence that they do not want him to play for us. We know that it does not work like that. However, if there was any inclination that Messi wished to leave or Barca wished to sell, then I'd imagine many posters would want us to be involved. Also, if news broke that we made an offer for Messi, most posters would assume that it was because something has changed in his situation and he was now potentially on the market.
Our pursuit of Fabregas, at least conspiracy theories of 'encouragement' aside, appeared to be extremely amateur. We wanted a midfielder, we went for one of the world's best, who was contracted for a long time to one of the world's biggest clubs, at below market value, seemingly with no encoragement from either the club or the selling player. I see nothing wrong with questions being asked about why we would operate in such a way, particularly so publicly.
We all convinced ourselves that this move had legs simpy on the basis that our club is not run by idiots, so if we are going after such a player, from such a club - then surely, surely - something must not be as it appears on face value. The sheer stupidity of it being just as it looked like, was what encouraged most people that there was hope. Ultimately, it literelly appeared to be as stupid as it seemed - we went after a top midfielder, from a top club, at below market value - and were told by both club and player to get lost. Upon which we then released a statement and said 'okay guys, we get it - we'll go away now'. Seemed a bit of a pointless exercise, at least on face value.
Indeed that there some things that we can never be sure of but still one of them is that the bids fort Fabregas were too low. Absolutely no doubt that and not only once which is worse.
Only saw the highlights, but from what I saw, the likes of Modric, Fabregas and Thiago (although I've admittedly seen little of him,) wouldn't have helped much in plugging the gaping holes that Sevilla were passing through. We need a new Keane more than we need a new Scholes (of course, I know that neither exists, but you get the idea.)After watching us today I'm not sure Fabregas would've been the midfielder we really needed. He would've been an excellent buy but we really need someone other than Carrick with the discipline needed to protect the back four.
Anderson and Cleverley are far to casual with their runs upfield and leaving us with no cover whatsoever.
Well I hope we try the same tactic with the likes of Gundogan - go in with a 25 million bid and hopefully turn his head, all the while being more than ready to spend 40 million.fecks sake
Do you not think that it is more likely that?
The low ball bids are to unsettle the player by creating a bit of a media shitstorm. Chelsea have done it with Rooney and Arsenal have done it with Suarez. If the player starts wanting the move it puts the selling club in an awkward position, what with a distracted player and newspapers constantly banging on about it it becomes a negative force around the club, just like the position we are in with Rooney right now.
We tried to unsettle Cesc and turn his head. From what the Barca manager and Alves have said it certainly seemed like it worked a bit, only he decided in the end to stay. The actual fee would have been agreed in the third or forth bid, as they will with Suarez and Rooney should they be sold.
You can go in like Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime a la Madrid and Bale but then you a cnut like Levy demanding £120m. If Madrid had started at 55m, Levy would be thinking he was the king negotiator when the 4th bid came in at 80m, which is an obscene fee for Bale BTW. Madrid seem to think it is part of their image to throw around obscene amounts of money, like it distinguishes them from the rest of the worlds clubs below them.
Only saw the highlights, but from what I saw, the likes of Modric, Fabregas and Thiago (although I've admittedly seen little of him,) wouldn't have helped much in plugging the gaping holes that Sevilla were passing through. We need a new Keane more than we need a new Scholes (of course, I know that neither exists, but you get the idea.)
So, in the almost impossible event that we still actually managed to sign him, how does he back out of his comments from earlier in the week? I just can't see how he'd justify it without looking like an utter bell end.
So, in the almost impossible event that we still actually managed to sign him, how does he back out of his comments from earlier in the week? I just can't see how he'd justify it without looking like an utter bell end.
So, in the almost impossible event that we still actually managed to sign him, how does he back out of his comments from earlier in the week? I just can't see how he'd justify it without looking like an utter bell end.
Only saw the highlights, but from what I saw, the likes of Modric, Fabregas and Thiago (although I've admittedly seen little of him,) wouldn't have helped much in plugging the gaping holes that Sevilla were passing through. We need a new Keane more than we need a new Scholes (of course, I know that neither exists, but you get the idea.)
His comments were in a press conference organised by Barcelona. I'd have found it strange if he didn't make the comments he did at the time and if in the unlikely event we did manage to sign him, I don't think he'd need to justify the comments.
fecks sake
Do you not think that it is more likely that?
The low ball bids are to unsettle the player by creating a bit of a media shitstorm. Chelsea have done it with Rooney and Arsenal have done it with Suarez. If the player starts wanting the move it puts the selling club in an awkward position, what with a distracted player and newspapers constantly banging on about it it becomes a negative force around the club, just like the position we are in with Rooney right now.
We tried to unsettle Cesc and turn his head. From what the Barca manager and Alves have said it certainly seemed like it worked a bit, only he decided in the end to stay. The actual fee would have been agreed in the third or forth bid, as they will with Suarez and Rooney should they be sold.
You can go in like Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime a la Madrid and Bale but then you a cnut like Levy demanding £120m. If Madrid had started at 55m, Levy would be thinking he was the king negotiator when the 4th bid came in at 80m, which is an obscene fee for Bale BTW. Madrid seem to think it is part of their image to throw around obscene amounts of money, like it distinguishes them from the rest of the worlds clubs below them.
To be fair, my ever optimistic, straw clutching self was thinking the same thing regarding this. He can hardly refuse to attend a press conference if asked by Barca or obviously he would show something isn't right, and at the press conference he can hardly say anything but positive things without shit hitting the fan.
It's just a very confusing situation. I honestly do think our club are stupid enough to pursue a transfer that was off the cards from the get go.
Why does this continually get bumped when the deal is off? If something new happens fair enough but let it die until then ffs.
I know.
I keep opening this thread thinking we have some new changes regarding this.