F1 2022 Season

And you don't think bringing up Max's name at all in this whole conversation serves no purpose? Did he do anything, or is he controlling what other people say?

The anger should be directed at Piquet. Imagine saying Max has a bad influence all around, when he has done or shown no behaviour of racism. Why bring up his name at all?

Again, you are missing the point. You made a point to defend Max, but not to criticise what was said about Hamilton. It means you prioritise defending Max (invalidly, see below) than condemning a racist comment. People can make of that what they will I suppose.

On your questions, you have created this fictitious scenario where Max has been criticised for what Piquet has said. Key word being fictitious. Because no one has criticised him. Purpose of raising it? Is it not noteworthy to raise his relationship with Piquet, when assessing the potential issue of bias in respect of why Red Bull haven’t issued a statement of condemnation, like every other team, but were very quick to dismiss someone in their team? Is it not a relevant information point?

And, let’s assume people brought Max in to smear his name. Even in that scenario, my first point in this post still stands. Defending his name is more important to you than the issue of racism, or at least, in addressing a racist quote.
 
Maybe two quotes in one day is too much for them to condone racism?

Vips removed all association with Red Bull from his socials last week, they’ve been sitting on this story for a few days at the very least, waiting for the right time. I’m guessing they thought this was it, trying to nail two birds with one stone but missing one bird.
 
Max's girlfriend is getting herself in more trouble online. Liking a post that supports her dads comment about lewis hamilton.

Can see Maxs people having a chat with the young lady and telling her to wind her neck in. Max and his sponsors really dont need that sort of association.
 


I know people will say they shouldn't have to say anything but other team like Ferrari are. It's about standing up to racism whoever is involved. Especially when you look the young Red Bull driver situation a week ago and Nelson being linked to Max, a little tweet of support to Lewis wouldn't kill them.

Horrible organisation with Marko and Horner at the wheel.
 
Imagine waking up, seeing this on the news, making a point of posting on RedCafe to defend Max (or specifically point out why he is innocent and how this place is just filled with Max haters), as if it is the most pertinent thing to do in relation to this story, when no one has even criticised him, or accused him of anything, except pointing out the relationship Max has with the man who made the statement, that Max may not have great role models, and highlighting the double standards of the team Max drives for in not willing to make a statement.

Just imagine. Can only think of a handful of reasons one might think like this.
Didn't you know, Max is the persecuted one. Spare a thought for the real prejudice in this World, against Max.
 
Imagine being blinkered enough to think Ferrari and Mercedes' platitude statements are more impactful than actually terminating the contract of a driver for using racist language.

Well, dont have to imagine. That's what this thread is for.

That was as much a formality as the statements from Ferrari and Mercedes. In situations like that their hand is basically forced when it's a nobody we're talking about. If Max had said it on stream, there is a 0% chance that Red Bull would have done anything remotely similar.
 
I used to find Lewis's early driving style overly aggressive but now I realise both that and his demeanour was probably a defence mechanism to all the shit he has been through pursuing a career in motor-racing.

F1 is such an ugly sport and Lewis is one of the few good guys.

That's what one can conclude if you hear from the dad all the stories they had to face during the early days.


There is always a perception/bias that when a black or minority guy is successful and confident, the world sees him as arrogant and detestable. It's both for historical and cultural reasons.

It's less likely the case with white guys who are successful.
 
Some people in this thread, seem to care more about defending their team/driver, than looking at the actual issue. I don't see how people commenting that it looks bad on Redbull for not commenting on the issue, particularly when there is a family link to the person who has made the actual comments. That isn't hate on Max as some claim, its a valid comment on the current situation.
 
Imagine being blinkered enough to think Ferrari and Mercedes' platitude statements are more impactful than actually terminating the contract of a driver for using racist language.

Well, dont have to imagine. That's what this thread is for.

Red Bull only went live with the statement today because of Piquets comments. The Vips decision was made last week and they’ve sat on the statement.

Let’s not make out the actual decision on Vips was accelerated because of Piquets comments, rather than the fortunate timing of a related statement.

Red Bull’s association with Piquet, connected through Verstappen, still needs addressing regardless of the Vips position.
 
Red Bull only went live with the statement today because of Piquets comments. The Vips decision was made last week and they’ve sat on the statement.

Let’s not make out the actual decision on Vips was accelerated because of Piquets comments, rather than the fortunate timing of a related statement.

Red Bull’s association with Piquet, connected through Verstappen, still needs addressing regardless of the Vips position.

Red Bull sat on the statement in case a comment from Piquet made a year ago just happened to resurface? I'd love to have a go on their crystal ball.
 
Red Bull sat on the statement in case a comment from Piquet made a year ago just happened to resurface? I'd love to have a go on their crystal ball.

No, that’s not what I said. The Vips decision was made last week, he took down any association with Red Bull at the back end of last week. They could have made the statement over the weekend or Monday, most likely they were going to make it on Thursday ahead of the F2 race this weekend.

This Piquet incident fell as an opportune time to get the Vips statement out, but still doesn’t address the Piquet issue as his association by proxy (more so when you see his daughters activity) to Red Bull.
 
No, that’s not what I said. The Vips decision was made last week, he took down any association with Red Bull at the back end of last week. They could have made the statement over the weekend or Monday, most likely they were going to make it on Thursday ahead of the F2 race this weekend.

This Piquet incident fell as an opportune time to get the Vips statement out, but still doesn’t address the Piquet issue as his association by proxy (more so when you see his daughters activity) to Red Bull.

Yes, it is what you said. You are assuming the decision was made last week, Vips removing stuff from Instagram might suggest that but I've known athletes to do it to preempt anything (example, British Weightlifer Sarah Davies). I'd agree it's likely but you know what they say about assuming...

You are also suggesting Red Bull delayed the announcement for....what reason? Then it just so happened that within a week of them telling Vips, but not making a statement, the Piquet racist comments from a year ago came out.

I've no problem hating Marko and think Horner is a smug twat but the mental logistics the last few days have been incredible.
 
Imagine being blinkered enough to think Ferrari and Mercedes' platitude statements are more impactful than actually terminating the contract of a driver for using racist language.

Well, dont have to imagine. That's what this thread is for.
Considering Vips is a nobody who probably wasn't going to make it anyway, it's not that grand of a statement.

Publicly condemning a 3x world champion who just happens to be the granddad of the current world champion and your golden boy - now that would be a statement.

Clearly though, racism isn't important enough to rock the red bull boat ;)
 
Yes, it is what you said. You are assuming the decision was made last week, Vips removing stuff from Instagram might suggest that but I've known athletes to do it to preempt anything (example, British Weightlifer Sarah Davies). I'd agree it's likely but you know what they say about assuming...

You are also suggesting Red Bull delayed the announcement for....what reason? Then it just so happened that within a week of them telling Vips, but not making a statement, the Piquet racist comments from a year ago came out.

I've no problem hating Marko and think Horner is a smug twat but the mental logistics the last few days have been incredible.

Waiting for the F2 interviews on Thursday ahead of the racing this weekend in which Vips will be racing for Hitech.

My point really is they need to address the Piquet issue considering the indirect links to the team. Making a statement about Vips isn’t really talking about the same thing albeit the same subject.

Personally, I can’t believe in 2022 we’re still having to debate the whether calling out racism, or over communicating on similar matters is the right thing or not.
 
Waiting for the F2 interviews on Thursday ahead of the racing this weekend in which Vips will be racing for Hitech.

My point really is they need to address the Piquet issue considering the indirect links to the team. Making a statement about Vips isn’t really talking about the same thing albeit the same subject.

Personally, I can’t believe in 2022 we’re still having to debate the whether calling out racism, or over communicating on similar matters is the right thing or not.

Such a cheap and easy line to throw in. I don't think anybody is saying it's the wrong thing to call out racism.
 
Such a cheap and easy line to throw in. I don't think anybody is saying it's the wrong thing to call out racism.

Not against you personally, yet the thread is still debating whether a statement on Juri Vips is enough to cover the words of Nelson Piquet. Red Bull could have come out with that statement and condemned both yesterday, but they chose not to.
 
Not against you personally, yet the thread is still debating whether a statement on Juri Vips is enough to cover the words of Nelson Piquet. Red Bull could have come out with that statement and condemned both yesterday, but they chose not to.

Have all teams condemned it? I know the focus is on Red Bull but I've not seen anything from Alpine or Alfa? (I let Haas off, they seem to have retweeted the official f1 tweet).
 
Red Bull only went live with the statement today because of Piquets comments. The Vips decision was made last week and they’ve sat on the statement.

Let’s not make out the actual decision on Vips was accelerated because of Piquets comments, rather than the fortunate timing of a related statement.

Red Bull’s association with Piquet, connected through Verstappen, still needs addressing regardless of the Vips position.
Yep. Obvious really. Cynical timing by Red Bull whose silence is "backing their mate".

But the usual suspect seems to be in denial. The 2 comments are not mutually exclusive. Red Bull don't have to choose to comment on one OR the other.
 
Have all teams condemned it? I know the focus is on Red Bull but I've not seen anything from Alpine or Alfa? (I let Haas off, they seem to have retweeted the official f1 tweet).

Of those teams, no. I have seen open comments from Ocon and Guanyu of those teams condemning it.
 
Piquet has also claimed he's better than Senna because he didn't die in a F1 car. He's been a lunatic for far longer than RB or Max have been around. (I still kinda had a soft spot for him but this might harden it).
 
Here we go with the "you don't get my language" bullshit.


Like I said yesterday, when used impersonally to refer to people in general it is not inherently racist (because those people can be of any race), but he was using it to refer to a specific person that is black, and that makes it entirely different from the other usage.
 
Like I said yesterday, when used impersonally to refer to people in general it is not inherently racist (because those people can be of any race), but he was using it to refer to a specific person that is black, and that makes it entirely different from the other usage.
What is the basis for using this word to refer to "people in general"? Where does it stem from?
 
What is the basis for using this word to refer to "people in general"? Where does it stem from?
Hm... I don't quite know when or why it started to be used that way. It could be a transition from using the term more explicitly to refer to black people (which was certainly common in Brazil until as recently as a few decades ago), but not sure when it would have transitioned to be used in the sense of "people" that I mention.

It's regional too I think, so in Rio we use it but I don't think in all other states they do.
 
What is the basis for using this word to refer to "people in general"? Where does it stem from?

Here's an article from a few years back, about J-Lo using a similar word, I guess this provides some context. A professor of law and a cultural anthropologist discussing the matter. As you might expect. Remember, Suarez also tried to excuse himself by saying it's not a racist word in Uruguay. I do dare to doubt that these words would be considered as neutral or positive in any of those countries if it wasn't for the colonial history

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...grita-in-latin-culture-after-j-lo-controversy

For what it's worth, I am in Estonia, and let me tell you, the Jüri Vips saga didn't go down well with the people here. People claiming Vips not being racist defended what he said in the most racist manner possible.

"Why can't we call a n**** a n*****?! That's how we've always called them! Red Bull bowing down to the mental SJW warriors! That's not racist! It's racist to accuse him of being a racist!"

Yes, there is context and different languages, however, white people fighting for their right to use these words are almost certainly either racists or incredibly ignorant and tone deaf.

And with Piquet, well the context doesn't help him either. Everyone had a name during his interview, except for Lewis.