If you want to go the conspiracy route, it could be that we are waiting to tie up a sexy signing i.e. a midfielder, before getting a player that most fans wouldn't see the need for. If we sign a midfielder, or even better, two, 99% of fans couldn't give two hoots who came in after.
Ezequiel Garay
- Thread starter moses
- Start date
Apparently we're after Roma's Marquinhos as well, would be strange to shell out £50m on two defenders. Perhaps Moyes is holding out to see the Marquinhos deal unfold (PSG and Barcelona have bid for him) before finalising Garay, but this is all speculation
Our scouts did an A++ job scouting Djemba Djemba and Kleberson
Vidic? We had Silvestre and Brown for that position, how that was needless?
Probably you're right about Evra, Heinze was good at that time.
Here is a different situation though, 6 CB would be overkill. At best, Garay will slow the development of Smalling and Jones, at worst he'll stay at bench watching Rio, Vidic and Evans play.
Whatever we think now, I remember well that at the time it was considered an overkill in itself, especially as we needed, err, a midfielder, especially after Keane was released. I do agree that six centerhalves would be too many. But lets see how it unfolds. For all the talk, we should have been signing this guy about ten times now.
Fergie was proved right in both Evra and Vidic's cases. Heinze was good at the time but he wanted a huge increase in pay, plus opponents started exploiting his lack of pace.
Vidic was brought in to replace Brown (injury prone) and Silvestre (never injured but an accident waiting to happen at times).
More importantly club insiders have certain knowledge that fans do not have. For example, we don't know the seriousness of Vidic's injury or Rio's fitness situation.
In a year or so, we might end up with 3 centre halves and considering that a new defender might take time to settle down (Vidic and Evra are two good examples), it makes perfect sense signing a centre half now, rather than wait..
Wasn't Heinze already injured when we signed Evra - so Sylvestre was covering LB and CB? Or am I getting the timeline wrong?
Meanwhile, lucky lucky Garay. Let's hope we're lucky too.
Meanwhile, lucky lucky Garay. Let's hope we're lucky too.
Yeah, Heinze was injured at the time. It was still considered overkill to sign Evra in January, though.
So, we're offering Garay 100,000 pounds a week now?
I still smell an agent trying to get a great deal for his client. Sorry. This deal has been too imminent for far too long.
So, we're offering Garay 100,000 pounds a week now?
I still smell an agent trying to get a great deal for his client. Sorry. This deal has been too imminent for far too long.
WHY? What attributes does he have that our current defense doesn't have? Smalling and Jones have power, pace and energy - Vidic and Rio have experience. All of them are good in the air, Rio is great at reading the play and Vidic may just be the best tackler in the PL. This would be ridiculous.
Whats the big deal - Garay's a highly regarded defender & its not your money that would be spent?!
Its better to be safe than sorry in case we get ravaged by defensive injuries again. Fergie's been after him for years aswell, so its his signing if it goes through, but i think we're holding out to see where Marquinhos decides to go first - we're in for him appararantly...
Did that in any way disprove my point?
Sounds to me like taking iron supplement without needing it, which is more harmful than it does good. I would take my chances with the defenders available. There are 5 fullbacks and five cbs. No need for more.
Oh, an the "it's not your money" argument - seriously?
I am worried about Smalling (who I rate very highly) if we sign this guy. Maybe there's something we don't know about Vidic or Rio. This transfer doesn't make any sense to me.
Every top club needs 2 players for every position. So: 2 fullback positions = 4 fullbacks, 2 centre-back positions = 4 centre-backs. We are one over that quota for those positions by havin 5 each.
Take into the equasion that Rio has on-going fitness struggles with a specially designed training programme to meet those needs, he cant play 2 games a week on more than 2 occasions per month - if even 2.
Vida has missed something like nearly 2 whole seasons out of 3 & he's not on tour because of sciatica & he cant play 2 games a week on more than 2 occasions per month either - maybe just 1.
Vida & Rio cant be risked to play any more than 3/4 games per month, to make sure they're available for the big games both domestically & in Europe. They'll continue to be rested when its possible, especially against the mid-to-lower half league teams at home, but away - that might be a different story depending on the form of the so-called lesser sides.
Worst-case scenario is that both Rio & Vida struggle with injury's for large portions of the campaign, possibly leavin only 3 fit centre-halfs available at certain periods of the season. Evans is also injury prone & Smalling is still recovering from last seasons injury & operation, so we dont know how he's gonna be after that to be honest. Jones is probably our only fit defender all the time & thats him possibly covering right-back & centre-midfield too. I still think he needs more games at CB to be truly trusted in top games, especially in Europe & he'll need to get those games of course - Smalling the same, who can also cover at Right-back.
So out of 5 CB's, 3 of them are injury-prone, 1 of them is coming back to fitness after a lengthy lay-off with injury & operation recovery, so that could be problematic. Which leave us with pretty much 1 reliably fit CB in Jones. I dont think that brings great security whatsoever & given the fact that Rio will probably retire after this season - bringin Garay or another into the club, will enable an easier transition (as he'd be bedded in nicely by then) to compete for Rio's position when he's gone!
We've been ravaged defensively for the past 3 season & we cant count on what we have to stay fit. Garay or another, would make sense to bring in for the reasons i've mentioned!
Let's try and start applying that logic to central midfield before signing a 6th CB.
10th time we've signed him now isn't it?
Like that they're both in their 30's and have had injury problems?
The fact we've been 'signing' this guy for six months now is the thing that doesn't make sense to me.
We still have three other CBs. It's in midfield where we're relying on old and injury-prone players and we've been doing so for quite a while now yet the club did nothing about it.
So we should do nothing else at all before we sign a midfielder?
Spending €17m on a 6th choice CB looks pretty fecking dumb while the midfield is in a desperate state, yes. It's one of the consequences of letting the midfield deteriorate to this level: everything else should take a back seat to fixing the glaring problems in CM. We shouldn't spank money on comparatively needless transfers before that.
If Smalling isnt ready to be bumped up the pecking order, I guess we wasted our money
The midfield has been fecked for about 3 years, are you saying we shouldn't have signed the players we have in that time?
If this guy comes he'll be competing for a first team spot, he wont be 6th choice, stop exaggerating. 2 of our first choice players for the position are over 30 and have picked up injuries in recent years, not to mention both Smalling and Jones, have had their own injuries and Jones is more likely to be used as back up for Rafael than at CB.
We obviously need a midfielder or two, but you don't ignore the rest of the team, particularly if a player that fits becomes available.
Yeah because at 23 you've either made it or you haven't.
Remember when Johnny Evans was 23? Shite, thank god we cut out losses on him!
Smalling is ready, if he can stay clear of injuries he should be pretty much 1st choice next season. He's a fantastic defender & shouldn't be filling in for Rafael.
Yes, Evans was first backup. Which Smalling would be if we for instance had Rio retire. Thats up the pecking order
Shoving Garay in his face wouldnt do that
By that logic we should sign a left-back as Büttner is mediocre and Evra is getting on; Rafael is injury- and card-prone, so is Smalling so we need a right-back as well. Van Persie had his share of injuries in the past, Welbeck is more of a back-up on the flanks so a striker should be bought as well.
What else? Young and Nani both had lots of injuries and Zaha is unproven so let's buy a winger as well. About 7or 8 players should do it for this summer. We can put off signing a goalkeeper for next season though Lindegaard did have injuries.
We signed Smalling & Jones while Evans was trying to break into the team, and while Rio and Vidic were younger and fitter.
If you're good enough you'll play, there are plenty of games to go round.
Quality squad players are what have allowed us to keep pace with our rivals since we lost the individual brilliance of Ronaldo (although the squad when we had him wasn't too shabby).
Obviously we have neglected the midfield in recent years, for whatever reasons, but if you don't try to maintain balance throughout the squad this years CM becomes next years CB.
Actually you're not far wrong. We do need a LB, hence the bid for Baines. I think we're ok at RB with Jones, Smalling and if it really comes to it Valencia as cover.
As for strikers, we we have an embarrassment of riches really don't we? Primarily as a consequence of buying RVP, when according to you we should have focused on CM and nothing else. We generally play 1 up top and have 3 players more than capable of playing there, leaving aside Welbeck who will probably be played from the wing most of the time. Which, combined with Zaha goes some way to answering your question about the wings, but again I do think we could do with a winger.
So, in my estimations we should be looking at -
LB - which we are
CB - which we are
CM - which we are
LW
CM is clearly a priority but if players for the other positions become available we should obviously try and sign them.
Going from reports, the deal for Garay just needs to be rubber-stamped, so that wont take any focus away from signing mid-fielders & plus there's that thing called multi-tasking, which i'm sure the good many folk at the club that deal with transfers, are well capable of doing...
Yeah but we'd spend money that we don't need to spend.
I think we could do with a striker/number 10 as well - Rooney looks likely to leave, we only have Kagawa to play behind the main striker; also, Hernández isn't really a great fit for the lone striker position while Welbeck doesn't really score.
My point is that just about every other area of the team is more important to strengthen than CB. Seriously, we have five quality players for two positions there. Rio Ferdinand, the one with the supposedly huge injury problems, played 72 games over the last two seasons. Vidic's injury record over the same period is a bit terrifying, yes, but should we buy a CB on the basis that one of the five we currently possess has had problems with his knee which, apparently, did not affect his quality as he was really good during the second half of last season. Spending €17m for a sixth CB is overkill in these circumstances. Unless we have unlimited amounts of money, which we probably don't.
Jesus Siorac - after all the points made about the CB position & you still maintain we're sorted there...
Garay wouldnt be 6th choice either, dont be rediculous - he's being brought in to eventually replace Rio or Vida. You dont pay that sort of money to be 6th choice
Garay wouldnt be 6th choice either, dont be rediculous - he's being brought in to eventually replace Rio or Vida. You dont pay that sort of money to be 6th choice
Jesus Siorac - after all the points made about the CB position & you still maintain we're sorted there...
Garay wouldnt be 6th choice either, dont be rediculous - he's being brought in to eventually replace Rio or Vida. You dont pay that sort of money to be 6th choice
Yes, I made perfectly valid points as to why we are sorted there. The points made about why we need Garay are, with all due respect, almost uniformly ridiculous, people are just desperately looking for explanations as to why we'd make such an apparently unnecessary transfer.
Whether he'd be sixth choice or not is irrelevant. He is the sixth player for the position we'd have at the club though. If you have five goalscorers but Messi becomes available you buy him. Is Garay in that category? Not really. Unless we've given up on Evans, Smalling and Jones replacing Ferdinand and Vidic then it's a pointless signing.
I repeat: we have Ferdinand who played 72 games over the last two seasons; we have Vidic who finished last season in fine form; we have Evans who's matured a lot and is now a very reliable defender; we have Smalling and Jones who can't really get enough games at CB as it is. Nobody would even mention a need for CBs if this persistent rumour about Garay wasn't so... persistent.
It makes no sense to me. I'll need to see the guy in a United shirt to believe this one.
You're right & Fergie's wrong!
Oh, the ultimate argument. We might as well close the forums if it comes down to this. Why discuss anything regarding Manchester United?