Exciting time for the academy ?

TheReligion said:
Rashford, Greenwood, Garnacho, Mainoo from the academy in the starting XI easily.
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without question those four would be starters for United right now with Mason probably moved to the 9.....

Saw mention of Lacey and Williams as players to watch from the 18's .....i wouldn't sleep on Victor Musa though. Kids got 5 goals and an assist thru 9 appearances now that he's settled after his move from spain last summer.

I think Willy is going to make himself into a future starting CB for United down the road....He's comfortable on the ball enough to play but good on the tackle and a strong lad, much like Konate.

we have an outstanding group of players who could make a push to the first team in the next couple years that could save us a lot of money in transfers where we can really focus on one specific area/player to target
 
bosskeano said:
without question those four would be starters for United right now with Mason probably moved to the 9.....

Saw mention of Lacey and Williams as players to watch from the 18's .....i wouldn't sleep on Victor Musa though. Kids got 5 goals and an assist thru 9 appearances now that he's settled after his move from spain last summer.

I think Willy is going to make himself into a future starting CB for United down the road....He's comfortable on the ball enough to play but good on the tackle and a strong lad, much like Konate.

we have an outstanding group of players who could make a push to the first team in the next couple years that could save us a lot of money in transfers where we can really focus on one specific area/player to target
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Musa is a good shout. He got a hatrick recently didn’t he? I need to watch the youth team in more detail but it’s just finding the time.

I like what I’ve seen of Lacey, Amass, J Fletcher and McAllister. It looks a really good bunch. Quality footballers.

I’m also interested in seeing what happens with Ibragimov but not heard much about him for a while (appreciate he’s 15)
 
TheReligion said:
What’s your thoughts with James Garner? I’m curious.
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I can't comment on hIs current run at Everton as I can't recall anything from him. I know he's played against us but I'm usually too focused on us and our game to notice the opposition players unless they really stand out.

As for his time here in the academy, I know pretty much everyone was hyped about him but I didn't think he was going to be good enough for us. He was a fine player, had a lot of great performances for the youth teams, but I thought he was lacking certain aspects to make it here. I thought he was too, I don't know, static in possession in terms of not having the agility to turn away from pressure and didn't carry the ball when there was space to do so, which I think are vital in order to compete with the best midfields. Especially with team pressing being so prevalent in today's game. However, the qualities he did have - intensity, a great strike on him when it came to passing and shooting, always seemed smart positionally and was a good leader - still made me think he'd have a good career even if it wasn't here. I'm not too surprised he's doing well at Everton, and I'm happy for him because I always like to see our kids go on to do well (unless they're playing us!) but he's not a talent I regret us letting go of.

Have you kept up with him at Everton? I hear nothing but good things.
 
TheReligion said:
Musa is a good shout. He got a hatrick recently didn’t he? I need to watch the youth team in more detail but it’s just finding the time.

I like what I’ve seen of Lacey, Amass, J Fletcher and McAllister. It looks a really good bunch. Quality footballers.

I’m also interested in seeing what happens with Ibragimov but not heard much about him for a while (appreciate he’s 15)
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Yagami said:
I can't comment on hIs current run at Everton as I can't recall anything from him. I know he's played against us but I'm usually too focused on us and our game to notice the opposition players unless they really stand out.

As for his time here in the academy, I know pretty much everyone was hyped about him but I didn't think he was going to be good enough for us. He was a fine player, had a lot of great performances for the youth teams, but I thought he was lacking certain aspects to make it here. I thought he was too, I don't know, static in possession in terms of not having the agility to turn away from pressure and didn't carry the ball when there was space to do so, which I think are vital in order to compete with the best midfields. Especially with team pressing being so prevalent in today's game. However, the qualities he did have - intensity, a great strike on him when it came to passing and shooting, always seemed smart positionally and was a good leader - still made me think he'd have a good career even if it wasn't here. I'm not too surprised he's doing well at Everton, and I'm happy for him because I always like to see our kids go on to do well (unless they're playing us!) but he's not a talent I regret us letting go of.

Have you kept up with him at Everton? I hear nothing but good things.
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I was the opposite. I really thought he was ideal for us and was definitely getting a pathway to the first team given our difficulty in midfield.

Was really disappointed when we let him go although from memory the timing was really off for him as when Ten Hag arrived he returned from loan and got injured so missed 90% of pre season. By the time EtH hadn’t seen much of him and had signed Eriksen (And later Casemiro). Just all went a bit wrong at a crucial moment.

I have two friends who are season ticket holders at Everton. One is really knowledgeable about football and plays himself still regularly. They both love Garner and peg him as their best ‘footballer’ so to speak.

I’ve watched him a bit this season, once live, and I think he’s steadily developing, in particular the ball carrying element you mention (that Mainoo naturally has I might add, along with the sense of when to play and when to drive in to space). He’s also quite tall and his strength on the ball appears more mature than I recall.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Garner getting a full international cap very soon.
 
bosskeano said:
without question those four would be starters for United right now with Mason probably moved to the 9.....

Saw mention of Lacey and Williams as players to watch from the 18's .....i wouldn't sleep on Victor Musa though. Kids got 5 goals and an assist thru 9 appearances now that he's settled after his move from spain last summer.

I think Willy is going to make himself into a future starting CB for United down the road....He's comfortable on the ball enough to play but good on the tackle and a strong lad, much like Konate.

we have an outstanding group of players who could make a push to the first team in the next couple years that could save us a lot of money in transfers where we can really focus on one specific area/player to target
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Musa has been with the club since he was like 12 and moved to England at 10, he didn’t join from Spain last summer. He’s also nowhere near a top talent.

Kambwala being comfortable on the ball is also extremely generous.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Musa has been with the club since he was like 12 and moved to England at 10, he didn’t join from Spain last summer. He’s also nowhere near a top talent.

Kambwala being comfortable on the ball is also extremely generous.
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Who do you like out of those mentioned or those un-mentioned??
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
Shea Lacey the most hyped of them all. What’s his potential? From the short clips I’ve seen, he looks special.
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Very talented player. He can drift in and out of games at the moment, but that's fine. The only thing that worries me a little bit is that I think he lacks a bit of top level pace. At the level he is at currently, it doesn't affect him much because he is two footed, has tight dribbling control and a low centre of gravity.
 
TheReligion said:
I was the opposite. I really thought he was ideal for us and was definitely getting a pathway to the first team given our difficulty in midfield.

Was really disappointed when we let him go although from memory the timing was really off for him as when Ten Hag arrived he returned from loan and got injured so missed 90% of pre season. By the time EtH hadn’t seen much of him and had signed Eriksen (And later Casemiro). Just all went a bit wrong at a crucial moment.

I have two friends who are season ticket holders at Everton. One is really knowledgeable about football and plays himself still regularly. They both love Garner and peg him as their best ‘footballer’ so to speak.

I’ve watched him a bit this season, once live, and I think he’s steadily developing, in particular the ball carrying element you mention (that Mainoo naturally has I might add, along with the sense of when to play and when to drive in to space). He’s also quite tall and his strength on the ball appears more mature than I recall.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Garner getting a full international cap very soon.
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Thanks for the detailed reply!

I think there's definitely one midfield spot up for grabs when it comes to England. Rice has the DM spot nailed down, and Bellingham has the 10 spot. All we need next to them is the controller, and it'd be cool to see two of our academy graduates fight it out for the spot in Mainoo and Garner.
 
TheReligion said:
Who do you like out of those mentioned or those un-mentioned??
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Outside the obvious Mainoo and Garnacho who already have broke through.

Dan Gore is very good, talented on the ball but very tenacious and strong in the tackle despite his smaller frame. Not quite Mainoo level, but similar to Jimmy Garner maybe. If given the chance could make it as a decent player or will just be that level below. It’s very hard to make it at United. Same with Hannibal, got talent but harder and harder to make the breakthrough as time goes on. Hannibal’s biggest thing stopping him is the mental side, needs to show his talent more rather than acting like a headless chicken.

Kambwala is big and strong and good physically but I don’t rate his performances at youth level. Very clumsy on the ball and reactive in his defending. But he’s missed so much football with injuries so there is the possibility of huge development if he can stay fit and shake off the rust of playing twice every 6 months.

u18s looked to have bigger talents. Shea Lacey is most known probably and is incredible with the ball at his feet but as someone mentioned above he needs to impose himself more as he tends to disappear for 89 minutes of a match and doesn’t bother to do much defending. When he comes alive though he can be unstoppable.

Jack Fletcher has been really impressive since joining and I rate Jayce Fitzgerald very highly in a deeper playmaking role. Finley McAllister is a great all rounder too for a squad role. Ethan Williams really impressed me earlier in the season too, very two footed and got good pace. But maybe more of an Elanga level. Harry Amass is almost a Luke Shaw regen, amazing composure with good physicals too. Still only u18s though so it’s almost a different game. It’s a very high base level group though so I’d expect a lot more of them to be making it to Championship or even lower PL level than in previous years.

We’ve got some really good keepers too but like Kovar it’s just near on impossible to break through at a club like United.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Outside the obvious Mainoo and Garnacho who already have broke through.

Dan Gore is very good, talented on the ball but very tenacious and strong in the tackle despite his smaller frame. Not quite Mainoo level, but similar to Jimmy Garner maybe. If given the chance could make it as a decent player or will just be that level below. It’s very hard to make it at United. Same with Hannibal, got talent but harder and harder to make the breakthrough as time goes on. Hannibal’s biggest thing stopping him is the mental side, needs to show his talent more rather than acting like a headless chicken.

Kambwala is big and strong and good physically but I don’t rate his performances at youth level. Very clumsy on the ball and reactive in his defending. But he’s missed so much football with injuries so there is the possibility of huge development if he can stay fit and shake off the rust of playing twice every 6 months.

u18s looked to have bigger talents. Shea Lacey is most known probably and is incredible with the ball at his feet but as someone mentioned above he needs to impose himself more as he tends to disappear for 89 minutes of a match and doesn’t bother to do much defending. When he comes alive though he can be unstoppable.

Jack Fletcher has been really impressive since joining and I rate Jayce Fitzgerald very highly in a deeper playmaking role. Finley McAllister is a great all rounder too for a squad role. Ethan Williams really impressed me earlier in the season too, very two footed and got good pace. But maybe more of an Elanga level. Harry Amass is almost a Luke Shaw regen, amazing composure with good physicals too. Still only u18s though so it’s almost a different game. It’s a very high base level group though so I’d expect a lot more of them to be making it to Championship or even lower PL level than in previous years.

We’ve got some really good keepers too but like Kovar it’s just near on impossible to break through at a club like United.
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Thanks for posting !
 
For those in the know (as I don't watch the youth team other than occasional highlights) what's Shoretire's ceiling?
I know he didn't do much at Bolton but clearly was highly thought of, debut at 17 and the youngest ever player to play for United in Europe.
Seems to be going well again this season, 5 goals 4 assists in 8 games. Has he actually got a chance at United?
 
golden_blunder said:
I must admit we we went 2-0 down in the first half, with brailsford taking notes, I thought that was it for ETH. I think that was so close to my own breaking point and had that finished in a defeat I think that would have been it for me.
But absolutely delighted to see the turnaround and I am over the moon for the young lads. Delighted the club is going back to its roots
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100% on the same train. Was also basically done with it all (shows the turbulent times were in), but happy with the win and even happier that Hojlund bagged his first league goal as the winner. Couldn’t have scripted it better myself.

TheReligion said:
Mainoo and Garnacho both on long term deals too !
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Fantastic :drool:
 
Skills said:
Or try not to poison his work with the first team managers influence?

I think any DOF would struggle in a set up where he has to cater to an over influential first team manager. I think it's too late for Murtough now, but the next DOF needs to have complete autonomy over the manager and be allowed to work above his head. The manager needs to report into and work to the DOFs requirements and not the other way around. Until we do that, this is always going to be a shitshow.
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I mean, Murtough appointed him, or at the very least had a massive say in appointing EtH. A competent DoF wouldn’t allow a manager undue influence over decisions, or at the very least, shouldn’t. At the end of the day the money wasted on signings through overpaying or to agreeing should rest with the DoF, as tactics, in-game management and ultimately results, should lie with the manager. They both accountable here.

Same goes for Arnold. That’s how accountability works.
 
TheReligion said:
Thanks for posting !
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Yeah the clear standouts are Jack Fletcher, Jayce Fitzgerald, Shea Lacey, and Harry Amass. The 2007 generation is more talented than the 2006 generation, that have nice players, but not quite as talented.


As for the general sentiment of the thread, can we really credit Murtough for this? As for bringing in players, I can give him credit for Amass, but can we give him credit for Fletcher? Darren Fletcher was with us before Murtough was a DOF, and before Fletcher got his new role, but I would assume he would bring his kids regardless once they got to the u18 level. Lacey and Fitzgerald were with us long before.

But maybe his influence will be more felt a year from now.
 
I'm not entirely sold on Musa's technique. He did well for the hattrick, but there's something missing. It's not the physicality or him filling out; I just don't see him in games and think he's technically tight. At his current level it's good, but I don't think his touch will translate to this level well.
 
Ish said:
I mean, Murtough appointed him, or at the very least had a massive say in appointing EtH. A competent DoF wouldn’t allow a manager undue influence over decisions, or at the very least, shouldn’t. At the end of the day the money wasted on signings through overpaying or to agreeing should rest with the DoF, as tactics, in-game management and ultimately results, should lie with the manager. They both accountable here.

Same goes for Arnold. That’s how accountability works.
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This makes no sense. In this structure the DOF and manager sit at the same level and report into the same boss. So how is a DOF meant to control someone who's not even reporting into him?

ManchesterUnited_Hierarchy_2.png
 
Skills said:
This makes no sense. In this structure the DOF and manager sit at the same level and report into the same boss. So how is a DOF meant to control someone who's not even reporting into him?

ManchesterUnited_Hierarchy_2.png
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I thought the structure was changed post Woodward? And also separating responsibilities around those 2 roles isn’t impossible: ie the DoF should/could be in charge of recruitment and shaping the squad and the manager for coaching and performance/results.

But yeah, I get your point - there’s been over indulgence on managers wishes here for far too long and if Arnold still didn’t change that then it is indeed a stupid structure - showing we still haven’t quite learnt our lesson(s). The manager shouldn’t necessarily report into the DoF for it to be a well functioning unit but there should be a clear separation of duties not allowing one person way too much power/influence.
 
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dazjoe said:
For those in the know (as I don't watch the youth team other than occasional highlights) what's Shoretire's ceiling?
I know he didn't do much at Bolton but clearly was highly thought of, debut at 17 and the youngest ever player to play for United in Europe.
Seems to be going well again this season, 5 goals 4 assists in 8 games. Has he actually got a chance at United?
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I don't think he has a chance anymore, he's 20 in February and hasn't really kicked on enough the past few years. He needed another loan this season, I'm not sure what's happened there but returning to u21 football is a step back for him.
 
TheReligion said:
At United (first team)
Garnacho 19
Mainoo 18
Hojlund 20
Hannibal 20
Kambwala 19
Gore 19
Amad 21
Pellistri 21
Rashford 26
Mctominay 27
Evans 35

On loan (playing)
Greenwood 22
Williams 23
Fernandez 20
Fish 20


At United (youth)
Lacey 16
Amass 16
Jack Fletcher 16
McAllistair 17
Fitzgerald 16

Elsewhere
Garner 22
Mengi 21
Elanga 21
Gomes 23
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It’s an exciting time to be a fan of United if you like the academy players featuring. Your correct in that with the negativity around the team it’s not really highlighted buts it’s a reason that I want to help the current manager amongst others.

You could see from the way even last season that he had players under 20 in camp regularly and played them when needed or he thought they deserved it. It’s definitely a culture trait he mentioned bringing back.

I really believe that he wants a core of players young enough to be hungry, willing to be coached and also maybe more loyal too. The chemistry and togetherness could also help with style identity and fluidity.

If we get the big signings right in the next 2 years to support them I can see a core of up to 6 or more being in and around the squad regularly with more to rotate through as time passes. If the current trajectory continues…
 
Borninthe80ts said:
It’s an exciting time to be a fan of United if you like the academy players featuring. Your correct in that with the negativity around the team it’s not really highlighted buts it’s a reason that I want to help the current manager amongst others.

You could see from the way even last season that he had players under 20 in camp regularly and played them when needed or he thought they deserved it. It’s definitely a culture trait he mentioned bringing back.

I really believe that he wants a core of players young enough to be hungry, willing to be coached and also maybe more loyal too. The chemistry and togetherness could also help with style identity and fluidity.

If we get the big signings right in the next 2 years to support them I can see a core of up to 6 or more being in and around the squad regularly with more to rotate through as time passes. If the current trajectory continues…
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Good post.

I know it’s popular to bash EtH at the moment but I think he’s handled the youth integration really well personally. It’s not an easy thing to get right either.
 
TheReligion said:
Good post.

I know it’s popular to bash EtH at the moment but I think he’s handled the youth integration really well personally. It’s not an easy thing to get right either.
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I only hope he's handled it well with Gore. I would hate for him to go to Dortmund
 
TheReligion said:
Good post.

I know it’s popular to bash EtH at the moment but I think he’s handled the youth integration really well personally. It’s not an easy thing to get right either.
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Appreciated
There are some things folk can question with the manager but integration of the youth players is not one of them. Some stability before the seasons end will help.
 
The one silver lining to us being dog crap is that a lot of youth players get regular minutes, which is good to see. Rather lose with youth products than the likes of Sancho and Mount.

Also since the opening post reminded me, I watched Alvaro Fernandez at the start of season play against I think Real Madrid it was.. he looked really good. Like a left back version of Sergio Ramos when he played RB. Can see him being the backup LB next season in place of Regulion and the Dutch guy whose name I keep forgetting.
 
Borninthe80ts said:
Appreciated
There are some things folk can question with the manager but integration of the youth players is not one of them. Some stability before the seasons end will help.
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I also agreed with your view Gore would be a good Eriksen replacement. He has that added tenacity too.

Perhaps v Wigan Gore can get minutes.
 
I don't watch academy games and this has been a nice read.

Something I find interesting is that sometimes our academy players do quite well in the first team at first and then tail off - is this a real thing or am I imagining it?

Off the top of my head - Borthwick-Jackson, Williams, McNair, Tuanzebe, Wilson, even I guess Macheda and Januzaj. Lots of really positive starts, and some played well for a while (I really liked McNair and CBJ!) but ultimately didn't make it.

were we just overrating their initial performances because they were academy lads?
 
TheReligion said:
Who do you like out of those mentioned or those un-mentioned??
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I'd agree with you you on Musa, can't see him making it. Average player on a very good team.
Amas, Harrison, Fletcher, Fitzgerald, Lacey look the pick of the bunch with plenty more talent coming through.
 
greater wall said:
What's happened with Forson? Has he signed a new contract or leaving?
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Forson looks like he's a player with a lot of talent, can see him going out on loan if he signs a new contract. Is he currently injured?
 
TheReligion said:
I also agreed with your view Gore would be a good Eriksen replacement. He has that added tenacity too.

Perhaps v Wigan Gore can get minutes.
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I think we see the game similar mate. They not exactly alike but there’s enough similar traits that can overlap and as you say with tenacity added ones too.
Hopefully Casimero’s back for Wigan and he starts with them. Hannibal on to close out if we’re winning!
 
Looks like Omari Forson and Willy Kambwala are being phased into the squad now. One of the few advantages of having a first team thats mediocre is that youngsters can see a clear path to first-team football.
 
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