Evra | (Soon to be Ex-)Pundit Thread | Patman Watch

Uncle Pat's honesty seems to not be sitting well with some people. As he said it himself, you can't shut him up and you can't take away his love for the club or the sacrifices he had to make during his time here, putting everything else behind the cause for Manchester United's success.

I think that's also a big problem currently, we don't seem to have many players who are ready to focus solely on bringing the club back to where it should be. As Patrice said, in their time they had to sacrifice their whole life, their family, their interests in order to put every ounce of effort into playing for us and making sure standards don't fall.
 
Cassidy said:
The one the agent spoke about didnt meet Ole by the way and wasnt shown around the club either. They went to the clubs London office

What I am saying is that the club needs to consider that Ole or other football people need to be involved alot more and not leave players with people who dont know football.

At the end of the say Ajax CEO knows football so does Bayern etc. I wont go into too much detail. I fully underatand we need lawyers to handle deals, my point is football people need to be involved at every point as thats what we are competing with.

How do you end up with Sanchez on a crazy contract that dirupts the dressing room? I would argue that football people were not involved enough in the financial aspect of that deal.
Click to expand...

Here is the thing, Watzke wasn't a football guy, nor were Florentino Perez, Aulas, Soriano or Liverpool current CEO. Nothing prevents Ole from getting more involved which is why he seemingly has been more involved, nothing prevented SAF from being more involved or to send his brother as an emissary.
As for the Sanchez part, you don't think that maybe the manager wanted the player and never really cared about the cost, we increased the wage bill by a 100m and he was still moaning about not having enough new players? There is a bit of a contradiction among fans where when the club has reported doubts about the financial logic of a deal, we scream about a lack of support of the manager and when the deal is done we blame the club because it was too expensive.

I definitely believe that the club should have a DOF, I definitely believe that Ole shouldn't have to fill SAF's trousers because they are too big, he should focus on the team while someone(s) takes care of all the footbal HR stuffs. But that's a shift from SAF because he was the one taking care of it, with his brother and the head scout. That was the flaw of our organization, the over reliance on SAF, that's why I believe that Gill and Woodward have done a poor job because they have never created the structure that would allow us to emancipate ourselves from SAF, they just assumed that we could dump eveything on the next men.

I'm getting tired of people failing to read what I write, I have for years pointed the finger at the issues, I have for years said that Woodward wasn't competent as a CEO and that we needed to change the structure and go into specialization like all the top clubs. So it's tiring that in 2020 people are still not getting it, 7 years ago we lost SAF and SAF was the football side of United, no other clubs worked like that outside of Arsenal. Ajax for example got rid of that organization more than 50 years ago.
 
JPRouve said:
Nothing prevents Ole from getting more involved which is why he seemingly has been more involved, nothing prevented SAF from being more involved or to send his brother as an emissary.
Click to expand...
It's weird cos your last 2 paragraphs (which I think most people here - and, from what I understand, Evra and other former Utd players - would agree on) seem to contradict this part. First of all, we don't really know enough about the hierarchy of the club and the internal organisation and governance to say "nothing prevents Ole from getting more involved". But more importantly, that's beside the point, the issue at hand is not whether or not Ole can or can't get involved in transfers, but rather whether he should (which I think we all agree he shouldn't, or only to an extent), but mainly that the mere fact we're asking this question shows a systemic dysfunctional organisation, which most former players, pundits and journalists have higlighted.

I don't disagree with the rest of the post, on the contrary I've been feeling that way pretty much since the Mata transfer and Moyes's year, but I was just surprised by how you introduced your post.
 
Mainoldo said:
Well maybe he should be our Director of Football, because he can’t coach.
Click to expand...
I think the same. His best qualities have been resetting the culture of the club and managing the ins and outs of the club (although Maguire and AWB I don’t believe were the best options). These are things the director of football should do. I’d want us to actually try and be proactive and get one of the managers that will probably go to big clubs sooner rather than later before they do like Nagelsmann. Never going to happen though of course.
 
DoomSlayer said:
Uncle Pat's honesty seems to not be sitting well with some people. As he said it himself, you can't shut him up and you can't take away his love for the club or the sacrifices he had to make during his time here, putting everything else behind the cause for Manchester United's success.

I think that's also a big problem currently, we don't seem to have many players who are ready to focus solely on bringing the club back to where it should be. As Patrice said, in their time they had to sacrifice their whole life, their family, their interests in order to put every ounce of effort into playing for us and making sure standards don't fall.
Click to expand...

Sure his love for the club is all well and stuff, but his off-field antics has made him unbearable.

When a public figure like him goes out and says stuff like has about COVID, I for one, can't take him seriously anymore.
 
DoomSlayer said:
we don't seem to have many players who are ready to focus solely on bringing the club back to where it should be. As Patrice said, in their time they had to sacrifice their whole life, their family, their interests in order to put every ounce of effort into playing for us and making sure standards don't fall.
Click to expand...
A friend of mine and I were discussing this exact same thing the other day. Been following the club for like 25 years but in the recent past we can't seem to connect with the players anymore. Love and passion for the club has not changed one bit. Love for players isn't there anymore.
The only one I can kind of connect to is Bruno because it seems like he cares. Only player that seems to have his heard on his sleeve right now. Everyone else seems to be treating it as a job. And I think that is what it is for me. Doesn't look like players care as much about the club as players used to do in the past.
Or I am close to 40 now so can't really connect with these 23/24 year olds.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
It's weird cos your last 2 paragraphs (which I think most people here - and, from what I understand, Evra and other former Utd players - would agree on) seem to contradict this part. First of all, we don't really know enough about the hierarchy of the club and the internal organisation and governance to say "nothing prevents Ole from getting more involved". But more importantly, that's beside the point, the issue at hand is not whether or not Ole can or can't get involved in transfers, but rather whether he should (which I think we all agree he shouldn't, or only to an extent), but mainly that the mere fact we're asking this question shows a systemic dysfunctional organisation, which most former players, pundits and journalists have higlighted.

I don't disagree with the rest of the post, on the contrary I've been feeling that way pretty much since the Mata transfer and Moyes's year, but I was just surprised by how you introduced your post.
Click to expand...

I don't see the contradiction. From what we know Ole does it, if something prevented him from doing it surely he wouldn't be able to do it? I also want to add that neither LVG nor Mourinho ever had that type of role which would explain why we may have had that void from 2014 to 2019 since we had two managers that had no experiences outside of being head coaches. Now there was/is seemingly a lot of dysfunction within the club, in my opinion it's because we are still trying to emulate SAF's system even though no one has the ability to do it.

As for your second point while we seem to share the same opinion, you know that it's not shared by everyone. On this forum alone we still have a large amount of believers of the "United way aka SAF way" many thinks that Ole and all managers should be leading everything related to football, many are absolutely against the idea of having a more specialized organization where we have technical directors, a DOF and where the head coach focuses on the first team and leaves transfers and HR concerns to others.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't see the contradiction. From what we know Ole does it, if something prevented him from doing it surely he wouldn't be able to do it? I also want to add that neither LVG nor Mourinho ever had that type of role which would explain why we may have had that void from 2014 to 2019 since we had two managers that had no experiences outside of being head coaches. Now there was/is seemingly a lot of dysfunction within the club, in my opinion it's because we are still trying to emulate SAF's system even though no one has the ability to do it.

As for your second point while we seem to share the same opinion, you know that it's not shared by everyone. On this forum alone we still have a large amount of believers of the "United way aka SAF way" many thinks that Ole and all managers should be leading everything related to football, many are absolutely against the idea of having a more specialized organization where we have technical directors, a DOF and where the head coach focuses on the first team and leaves transfers and HR concerns to others.
Click to expand...
Really? I think there is only a fringe of the fanbase that thinks that way and the nostalgia related to the handling of the club under SAF/Gill has dissipated with the mess we've become along with the sporting success of clubs that are ran like well-oiled machines. I think if there were a poll on here, it'd drastically lean towards the specialized organisation approach.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Really? I think there is only a fringe of the fanbase that thinks that way and the nostalgia related to the handling of the club under SAF/Gill has dissipated with the mess we've become along with the sporting success of clubs that are ran like well-oiled machines. I think if there were a poll on here, it'd drastically lean towards the specialized organisation approach.
Click to expand...

Over the years people have shifted but we still have a large amount of people believing in the United way. And since we are talking about the last 7 years it is relevant to point to the fact that the way we have tried to do things followed that logic. Also I have seen people who are for a DOF but somehow think that he should report to the manager which defies the point of a DOF. But maybe you are right and the fanbase completely shifted.
 
JPRouve said:
Over the years people have shifted but we still have a large amount of people believing in the United way. And since we are talking about the last 7 years it is relevant to point to the fact that the way we have tried to do things followed that logic. Also I have seen people who are for a DOF but somehow think that he should report to the manager which defies the point of a DOF. But maybe you are right and the fanbase completely shifted.
Click to expand...
Would be interesting to gauge in fact, maybe my perception of the matter is wrong.
 
kiristao said:
A friend of mine and I were discussing this exact same thing the other day. Been following the club for like 25 years but in the recent past we can't seem to connect with the players anymore. Love and passion for the club has not changed one bit. Love for players isn't there anymore.
The only one I can kind of connect to is Bruno because it seems like he cares. Only player that seems to have his heard on his sleeve right now. Everyone else seems to be treating it as a job. And I think that is what it is for me. Doesn't look like players care as much about the club as players used to do in the past.
Or I am close to 40 now so can't really connect with these 23/24 year olds.
Click to expand...
I'm still "only" 25, but have a similar feeling. Times have indeed changed, but the teams on the top are still the ones that put the most work in, on a club level overall, not just the individual players.

Probably in the eyes of many people within the club, the effort required to bring us back to being a competitive team is too big and the financial incentive isn't there, as Manchester United will keep the global brand which brings guaranteed profit every year.
 
Jibbs said:
I did not say they are not allowed opinion. All I am saying is their opinions reeks of opportunism.
Click to expand...
Both Evra and Rio. To a lesser extent Neville, have all criticised the clubs recruitment and said something is wrong at board level. I dont know what opportunities you think they are trying to seek out? Or what opinions they have shared which makes you think that? Do you have any examples?
 
kiristao said:
A friend of mine and I were discussing this exact same thing the other day. Been following the club for like 25 years but in the recent past we can't seem to connect with the players anymore. Love and passion for the club has not changed one bit. Love for players isn't there anymore.
The only one I can kind of connect to is Bruno because it seems like he cares. Only player that seems to have his heard on his sleeve right now. Everyone else seems to be treating it as a job. And I think that is what it is for me. Doesn't look like players care as much about the club as players used to do in the past.
Or I am close to 40 now so can't really connect with these 23/24 year olds.
Click to expand...

I very much enjoyed watching Rashford and Martial last year, good lads grafting and no little talent. That's certainly Ole's biggest credit in his time here for me is the work he's done with them, particularly Martial. I also like McTominay a lot, although I'm not sure he's really of the calibre needed at the moment.

But yes, we still lack a bit of character across the pitch. And a bit of flair at times too, which is weird when you consider the ability of some of our players but perhaps that has to do with character again. Henderson could be one of those that the fans take to of course as well...
 
kiristao said:
The only one I can kind of connect to is Bruno because it seems like he cares. Only player that seems to have his heard on his sleeve right now.
Click to expand...

I get what you mean, I’d say we have made strides and for me I feel that way about Bruno, Henderson, Williams, Rashford and I’m excited about Greenwood though his attitude is a concern (I know he is 18).

I actually quite like our players more than I have for a few years, same with England actually.
 
Falcow said:
I enjoyed listening to it but he was fairly light on solutions. He is ok with the Glazers, ok with Ed, Ole is the man......I'm not really sure what his point was?
Click to expand...
I think he was saying that players need to know that you need to sacrifice to be successful. Put the club first, rather than doing just enough. Be obsessed with improving and don't let your own personal ambitions get in the way. Ideally, football should be the end in itself, not a means to an end. If the motivation is only financial success, then failure should not be a surprise.
 
Falcow said:
I enjoyed listening to it but he was fairly light on solutions. He is ok with the Glazers, ok with Ed, Ole is the man......I'm not really sure what his point was?
Click to expand...

Read between the lines. He doesn’t want to be banished from the club.
 
Falcow said:
I enjoyed listening to it but he was fairly light on solutions. He is ok with the Glazers, ok with Ed, Ole is the man......I'm not really sure what his point was?
Click to expand...

He only played for United when the Glazers were there, he had a very good career with us so it makes sense he wouldn't have a problem.

He's a bit of an idiot with most stuff, funny seeing people get their back up cos calling an ex United player an idiot....seems a bit sensitive.
 
He is really upset. He’s calling out the board and Maguire.
 
I disagree with him on Pogba. He continually puts him before everything else to defend him. However, what he’s just said and how much he cares about the club is great to see. Though he may be sacked for encouraging someone to slap to Woodward :lol:
 
Love him as a player but some of his social media insanity has put me off with all the conspiracy theories. He knows whats up about football though.
 
Mickeza said:
I disagree with him on Pogba. He continually puts him before everything else to defend him. However, what he’s just said and how much he cares about the club is great to see. Though he may be sacked for encouraging someone to slap to Woodward :lol:
Click to expand...
They ll soon accuse him of inciting the fans:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.