Was thinking this too. It's accounting rules and not really a loophole.
Actually a bit shit to see young players being traded solely for the purpose of recording gains on an income statement. Is that what football is about now?
Everton 24/25 | John Textor has entered period of exclusivity to pursue Everton takeover
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
Actually a bit shit to see young players being traded solely for the purpose of recording gains on an income statement. Is that what football is about now?
Perhaps by changing the overall dynamics of FFP and PSR? You're right, it's hard to just ban this from happening but it's just....rubbish. I don't want my club having to do this or football creating a product where this happens. It's naff.
Isn’t the answer though to stay within the rules in the first place?
With this takeover, will Everton become serious contenders or will it only go as far as giving them some stabilisation?
I'm not really clued in, have Roma spent much under this guy?
I'm not really clued in, have Roma spent much under this guy?
Well by doing this and Chelsea doing the property thing, all clubs will/should be within the rules. I just think it's silly that you get these types of things happening so clubs can push those rules to the limits in what is possible. I don't like that football has got to a stage of multi-club ownership, PSR transfer deals etc. in order to keep in line with PSR and to try and elevate your club or maintain it.
I agree with him though. Speaking on just my own club, Chelsea are in a PSR/FFP mess entirely of their own doing. If they're now having to do shitty hotel deals to exploit a loophole or sell off valuable academy players to stay within the rules, that's entirely of their own doing. They should have been more careful and smarter with their spending. I'm not too well versed in Everton and Villa finances to confidently speak on what they're doing wrong, but if you have to resort to these PSR shenanigans with another club in the same PSR predicament, then it's fair to say the clubs has been messed up somewhere.
I do agree with you that the PSR rules could do with a tweak that makes it not so profitable to sell academy players, but I don't know how they can realistically do that.
The reality and dynamics of football now are that clubs outside of the Chelsea/United/Liverpool/Arsenal mould aka the traditional big hitters, aren't able to break the mould without pushing the club to the limits in terms of PSR. You may be able to do it one season, that Newcastle and Villa have shown, but to upkeep that you're going to need to fiddle books at some stage and in some capacity.
Obviously, we spent on rubbish at times and we aren't without fault in the situation, but the rules aren't perfect.
There is a problem -
1. You try to organically grow a club but like Brighton you'll reach a limit because you need further investment to grow the club
but 2. Even if you are heavily financially backed you're restricted.
You essentially have to get everything perfect to break into that top 4 and maintain it without doing these types of deals if you're not one of the traditionally big clubs.
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I mean is that really true though? Chelsea are struggling with the rules and have breached them, whilst United are having to operate in a more limited capacity despite the huge revenue the club makes.
I think it’s somewhat perverse to suggest that breaking the rules is the only option to clubs to compete.
The real elephant in the room is how much City have expanded away from the rest so quickly, due to breaking the rules in several different areas thus far unpunished, which has essentially caused everyone to fall behind and push their spending to try and tread water. The knock on effect skittles down the table at every level.
I think the can’t beat them, join them, attitude isn’t the correct one, especially if we all genuinely want fairness within the league.
Chelsea are only struggling due to the absolutely daft transfer model they decided to implement, that's not a victim of the rules, that's being a victim of themselves. To a lesser extent, that's also been the case with United by signing people like Casemiro for an inflated fee and wage etc. I wouldn't say that Newcastle have been daft in their transfer model, they've tried to do things right but they're being hampered by rules. Villa, aside from the early Coutinho deal are in a similar boat as are Brighton.
Also, i'm not suggesting clubs break the rules? How have you got that from my post? What Villa and Everton are doing is not against the rules and what Chelsea have done with the property stuff/the 8 year contract, is/was not against the rules. What I'm saying is that clubs outside of the 'big' 6 have to push those rules to the limits in respect to loopholes or clever accounting because their revenues and income will be dwarfed by those big clubs so they're always one step behind. They're not breaking rules, but they're being clever in the way they navigate them because of how they're restricted.
I despise City and what they've done, and to an extent they're a reason for these types of rules.
There isn't fairness in the league though because it's nigh on impossible for clubs to organically grow and become a top team.
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I depends if you’re of the mindset it’s ethical to do what Chelsea, Villa and Everton are doing in order to circumnavigate the rules? I personally don’t feel that it is whilst I get the feeling you do (I’ve possibly got that wrong so apologies if so).
I also get the feeling that you feel as though Everton and Villa have been pushed in to this situation by an unfair set of rules or by some kind of injustice. Again, I don’t feel that is the case myself. Whilst there’s always room for improvement every club knows the league rules and agrees to adhere to them in playing in the PL.
It doesn’t seem right to accept the rules, play in the league then complain when you fall outside them or look for loopholes to exploit.
I think you're misreading my posts or position.
I don't like that football has become like this. I hate multi-club ownership, I hate PSR workarounds etc. It's not a good look but it's legal, which is a problem in itself.
Injustice/unfair is the wrong word to say how I feel about Everton/Villa doing this or if Brighton or someone else decided to do it too. It's more a case of me understanding why clubs look for loopholes or ways to be within the rules in a legal way, because the way the league is and the rules in place, I do not believe it's possible for clubs to break and stay within the top bracket without pushing them because of the extent of revenue of a Villa/Everton/Brighton/Newcastle etc. in comparison to United/City/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool etc.
I agree that if you can't beat them, join them attitude is shite, but unfortunately with the rules in place and with clubs around doing so, it's the way football is going.
That is fair enough. it’s just a shame these are now the talking points of the game.
Makes sense, they'll never have to worry about both teams being in Europe.
Rumours we might be involved in another PSR deal but this time with City in regards to Kabore (RB who was on loan at Luton from City) and Lukjanciks (Under-18 GK at Everton).
Here’s another clear example of taking the piss to circumvent PSR rules. The Maatsen deal on its own is fine but that we’re paying £20m for random academy prospect no one has heard of feels dodgy as feck.
They're paying about 10 million over the odds and so are we.
He's not some random kid no one has heard of, he is very highly rated and has even started in the prem for them.
It's an obvious ffp fudge of course. Be interesting to see how the change the rules because this will happen again.
Villa signed him for 600k in 2022 and he’s played roughly 280 professional mins since then. Now he goes for £20m.
Villa, Chelsea and Everton are rotating players between each other for big fees to help each other circumvent the rules, which feels just so ….. dirty.
Kellyman is a very highly rated prospect.
Very much so. Apparently we might try and get in on another one of these types of deals with Newcastle and DCL/Minteh. Not only is it dirty but it sucks the fun out of a transfer window.
Yes, it's a ffp fudge. Everyone knows it.
He's not some random kid though. They started him against Man City in the Premier League.
FFP rule change in 3....2.....
Could they offer fans the chance to be a player in a competition and sell them between each other?
You win the right to call yourself a professional footballer, perhaps are allowed to go to one training session or use the gym and get a £50 a week contract as your prize.
Just wondering how far they could legally push this, and what levels of plausible deniability are required here.
Or Perhaps they could register office admin staff, groundskeepers or canteen staff etc. as players and sell them between each other? Everton offer a Chelsea staff member a playing contract and vice versa. They 'quit' their job to take up their dream of being a pro footballer, then are immediately sold back and carry on performing their regular duties with their playing contract being whatever they were paid anyway.
Could transfer them as fake consultants with expensive compensation packages rather than players if that made it more legal?
I'm having a laugh here by the way, but it makes you wonder just how far things could go.
You win the right to call yourself a professional footballer, perhaps are allowed to go to one training session or use the gym and get a £50 a week contract as your prize.
Just wondering how far they could legally push this, and what levels of plausible deniability are required here.
Or Perhaps they could register office admin staff, groundskeepers or canteen staff etc. as players and sell them between each other? Everton offer a Chelsea staff member a playing contract and vice versa. They 'quit' their job to take up their dream of being a pro footballer, then are immediately sold back and carry on performing their regular duties with their playing contract being whatever they were paid anyway.
Could transfer them as fake consultants with expensive compensation packages rather than players if that made it more legal?
I'm having a laugh here by the way, but it makes you wonder just how far things could go.
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Nice.
This is surely the fault of Manchester United 
Uh oh.
How does this affect you financially?
Uh oh.
They wanted that Branthwaite wonga
Genuinely difficult to say but I imagine the structure of those loans are dodgy and quite a burden to us. It also means that ongoing costs of the club will be a concern too. Moshiri has been absolutely toxic.
All they had to do was pay the asking price. It's not hard.
I fear for Everton.
Is this existential for Everton or?
Not to be insensitive but surely this helps with signing Branthwaite?
£60m will make a significant dent in their debt
could be a bit of a fire sale coming
So, everybody involved is crooked and going bust. It's almost impressive that after the Moshiri/Usmanov situation, they managed to jump into bed with characters who might be even dodgier.
Not really when you consider it was them who was jumping into bed with them!
It doesn't look good for Everton if proposed buyers are being put off by historical debt.