Not in my opinion
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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Not in my opinion
The good conduct and integrity of the European Union has been shown to be lacking all too often in recent years, its flaws can no longer be concealed beneath a facade of liberal values.
Will they not learn from their mistakes? Had they but considered the longer term benefits as opposed to short term fixes, Greece might have been allowed to exit the Eurozone. Or the IMF could have advanced the theory of a two or three currency union, centred around like-minded economies.
I might just take you up on this wager, although i would favour a charity bet. Let me think on it.
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Meanwhile you lump the same amount on Leave with Coral at 2/1?
Away with you sir, you think there are no gamblers on this board?
If anyone's really interested in polling data, there's a useful spreadsheet here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...rEfQc6uzNP98KXwZcf-8JsKZto/edit#gid=548761846
Most of the recent polls still show remain ahead, but it's been tightening recently. However, there's a fair old chunk of don't knows, which could easily swing things either way.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...rEfQc6uzNP98KXwZcf-8JsKZto/edit#gid=548761846
Most of the recent polls still show remain ahead, but it's been tightening recently. However, there's a fair old chunk of don't knows, which could easily swing things either way.
Tbf, some economists, most notably Roger Bootle have long been calling for the EU to split into a north and south group, but EU mandarins are unlikely to want to confirm the failure of the organisation I guess.
As for the IMF's warning, it does have a point that it is a venture into the unknown and who knows of two years will be sufficient to get all of the key trade and visa agreements in place.
If he offered me a gift of a million pound I would refuse it cos I know in return someone else will have to suffer top cover the cost.
Indeed, and i would hope that an increasing number of voters are coming to realise that they are but inconsequential baggage when compared with Brussels' future ambitions.
Ultimately, you've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette; whereas the IMF would far sooner go hungry through fear of washing up.
The time frame allotted is more flexible than people might realise: Article 50 does not have to be activated on June 24th, potentially it could be delayed until after any internal party politics had been resolved; additionally, the UK and the EU can agree to extend the negotiating period as the need demands. Contrary to what some people might suppose, we are not going to be on the receiving end of a trade embargo and mass deportations as soon as summer htis in 2018.
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Eloquently put, but I'm minded to think that the refugee crisis and breakdown of Schengen must surely lead to even the most ardent Europhiles reconsidering the structure of the EU as it currently stands. Add in the rising anti-EU sentiment and you can see politicians coming under increasing pressure to renegotiate the terms of their membership.
You'd hope everyone would be sensible and extend if necessary, but I can't shake the feeling that some within the EU will want to make the process as arduous as possible as punishment, regardless of the economic hit to both sides.
The concerns about the impact are clearly very real. Citi has become the latest US bank to throw cash at the remain campaign.
http://news.sky.com/story/1677906/citi-hands-six-figure-sum-to-eu-in-campaign
Vote Leave granted the position of the official campaign for Outers, hopefully means we'll see less of the horrific ties from GO.
As reported above, the offical nomenclature - originally titled 'Let's f*ck off from Europe so we can concentrate on screwing our own plebs over' - has now been decided.
While i do not the rule out the possibility of a petty revenge, i think it the least likely of the two outcomes, particularly with the global economy being in such a precarious state. And should their bruised ego force them into a policy of self harm, we could soon find ourselves negotiating with entirely new (as well as more practically minded) governments.
When one considers the difficulty in even reaching this point, as well as the unlikelihood of being granted another referendum, a year of uncertainty seems a small price to pay. Countries adapt, as will the business community when it recalls that millions of customers still exist on these islands.
So not only are renowned lefties on this forum holding hands with George Osborne, but they are chumming it up with a nasty bank into the bargain.
Support like that could be a boost to Leave though, if handled with some delicacy. Boris couldn't be the one to make the point of course, although the Green Party's Jenny Jones...
We're not holding hands with gideon as much considering if jumping off a cliff is a reasonable response to being on the same side.
If you would but look over the edge of said cliff, you'd see a survivable drop to an enchanting crystalline pool, happy people sunning themselves along its shore and sipping cocktails. Yet if date night with Gideon is what the Left now aspires to who am i to judge.
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You feeling alright about holding hands with Farage and Galloway then, Nick?
Come on folks, be sensible now. We don't want anyone holding hands with little GO. They're probably cold and clammy with a weak handshake.
Can't see anyone rushing to hold hands with Galloway either but I'll bet Farage has dry hands and a firm handshake.
Can't see anyone rushing to hold hands with Galloway either but I'll bet Farage has dry hands and a firm handshake.
Farage's hands would be soaked from spillage after all of those pints he's had in traditional British pubs.
Admit Silvia, you secretly want to hold hands with Georgey.
I still believe more info on potential terms of exit before we can make an informed decision. Doubt it will happen though.
Companies do adapt but companies can and do up sticks and leave. If you have some firm like Citi downsize its UK base, you're talking thousands of jobs and millions in lost revenue.
Part of me does wonder whether we would be staying in for the right reason, but leaving won't solve half of the issues, ie we'll still pay money to the EU and have to adhere to its regulations for trade.
You're getting in bed with the Weatherspoons boss, Boris and Peter Hargreaves. We all come out of this a little sullied.
It's dashed awkward i can tell you (Kate Hoey warned me that Galloway's hands go a wandering), but we Leavers reassure ourselves with the prospect a hasty separation after the 23rd of June. The trouble for the Remain types, is that should the EU be triumphant its claws will only tighten their hold. There'll be little in the way of internal reform from that point forward, or not as we wish such to manifest. As Daniel Hannan alluded to in his interview, the only honest position from thereon would be to join the Eurozne and Schengen sooner or later.
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Saw on TV today that one reason given for leaving the EU was because British people were worried about no longer being able to have kettles to boil the water for their tea. Is this really serious? Don't we have kettles in France then?
Sounds like some poor comedy playing on British stereotypes. To me, Broadly, the Brexit lot are motivated by the belief that somehow immigration will end if we leave and remain is made up by a load of cosmopolitan lefties not wanting to be associated with that.
The genuine debate about democracy and sovereignty only seems to concern a minority.
What on earth were you watching?
No it was actually an article in the Sun or the Mirror, can't remember.
Agree with your other points
Unfortunately the Brexit lobby are going to be sadly disappointed if they win and expect immigration will change or the savings they think the UK will make by not being a member is going to change
Uk had massive immigration in the 50s & 60s and the cost of not being in will far outweigh the expected savings.
the news
In France?
Yes, there's a lot of talk of the "Brexit" on the news with reporters in the UK, this was about lots of headlines in the tabloids giving reasons for the UK to leave the EU
PS I am an Englishman living in France
Sadly true.
Ah....here we are!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rive-tea-loving-britons-towards-a6899551.html
Good example though of these daft rules Brussels keeps coming up with. We're just getting fed up with their interference in our lives.
My french friends all drink more tea than I do and they're not worried
Oh we're not worried. More annoyed if you like. Annoyed that some European bods, that we haven't voted for and don't want anything to do with, are telling us which kettles we can and cannot have. Same as they did with vacuums too.
Its an environmental issue
I just think these sort of things are a complete red herring and one of the stupidest things people rage against the EU about.
I feel like in part its the UK Governments fault that people get angry about this sort of stuff though, too often they've washed their hands of well intentioned (and in this case, in my opinion, well executed) but unpopular plans by saying stuff like 'Ah, the bloody EU, if only we could stop them hey!' when in reality they agree with it but don't see admitting it as a vote winner.
We can think for ourselves on environmental issues though. We can decide for ourselves too.
I don't know about in general, but I stayed in a hotel in Paris last month that had no kettle in the room, which is unheard of in Britain. I just bought the cheapest one I could find in a corner shop type place, and left it the room afterwards. I found teabags on sale easily enough, and fresh milk, eventually. No way am I going without my wake-up two pints of tea. This isn't a serious comment on the EU of course.
Such things are far more effective when implemented at a continent wide level. Otherwise you'd get Farage types saying "we're small and have no effect on global warming in the grand scheme of things", leading to no-one taking essential steps to minimise energy usage.
Has such a notion been represented in any of the campaigning?
If we transferred that logic to Kyoto or Paris, then we ought to be living under a global government right now. The agreements that count need to be global, thinking about such in a purely European context is rather small time and dated.
Because Kyoto and Paris have been so effectively implemented?
Farage is always going on about 'controlling our borders'.
Are you saying that we should have a global government modelled on the European Union? Authoritarian rule, corruption, death, loads of fun.
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