EU discussion / and other European countries

africanspur said:
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"Tusk's decision to clear out other PiS members from other bodies including academic and social insurance institutions has been viewed by some as too heavy-handed."
I would love to see who are those 'some' and how many of them have direct economic ties to PiS.
 
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...o-oppose-far-right-afds-mass-deportation-plan

I‘m afraid we have to talk about my country. The political atmosphere within Germany is steadily shifting to the right and the AfD keeps gaining support. Some of their members actually held a secret meeting with two members of the Christian democrats (CDU, Merkel’s party), members of the Identitäre Bewegung (a Nazi movement) and some rich business people, where they discussed who would be deported if they gained and solidified power.
The AfD is on their way to become the strongest power in virtually all of the former East of Germany and is gaining more and more influence in local governments throughout the country.
It is becoming increasingly difficult for established parties to form functioning governments without them participating.
For the first time in my life, I’m actually genuinely afraid of our political landscape.
All the taboos that were so deeply entrenched in our society after the third Reich seem to break. People become more and more radical. The language regarding immigration more and more mirrors that of this dark time.
And the worst thing is that nobody seems to have any idea what to do about it.
The situation is very serious. More than I have ever seen it.
 
I'm also expecting the worse in the Portuguese March elections. I think far right party will probably reach 16 to 18% of votes making it the third most voted party in the country.

So far the main center right party has refused to make any deal with them but we know how politicians go. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up in the government . There's a precedent where the far right party supported the center right party government in the Azores Islands. Unsurprisingly it didn't work. You just can't give an inch or work with fascists which the Chega party clearly is.

To think we were considered mild mannered people. Just 10 years ago, they had residual expression and everyone mocked the far right party. Now there's a distinct possibility they may reach or have some influence in the next government.

I'm genuinely afraid for European future. We are clearly taking the wrong turn.
 
I think an open debate about why exactly people turn to these far-right parties should be had. If the fear of immigrants are such an issue throughout our continent, then we can't just ignore it and tell the people they are a bunch of racists for voting the way they do.
 
Sly said:
I'm also expecting the worse in the Portuguese March elections. I think far right party will probably reach 16 to 18% of votes making it the third most voted party in the country.

So far the main center right party has refused to make any deal with them but we know how politicians go. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up in the government . There's a precedent where the far right party supported the center right party government in the Azores Islands. Unsurprisingly it didn't work. You just can't give an inch or work with fascists which the Chega party clearly is.

To think we were considered mild mannered people. Just 10 years ago, they had residual expression and everyone mocked the far right party. Now there's a distinct possibility they may reach or have some influence in the next government.

I'm genuinely afraid for European future. We are clearly taking the wrong turn.
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If PSD needs Chega to for a government they will do it in a heartbeat, there's no doubt in my mind.

Hopefully we have another left wing coalition.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
I think an open debate about why exactly people turn to these far-right parties should be had. If the fear of immigrants are such an issue throughout our continent, then we can't just ignore it and tell the people they are a bunch of racists for voting the way they do.
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It feels like the swinging of the political pendulum in the other direction. We've enjoyed to a degree a lot of progress across what I guess would be the political left for a while now. I imagine the more progress and strength we get on the left unfortunately gets mirrored in a strengthening of resistance in the opposite direction. For me I had comfort in the thought that as new generations become adults and start influencing society that that shift to the left would increase. However, I feel like a large part of the population are just destined to repeat views/ideologies of their parents. It does also feel like, at least in the UK/US, apathy is starting to set in. I imagine we likely are sleep walking into more of these right wing governments and only when they get in maybe we'll see the energy for the left come back.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
I think an open debate about why exactly people turn to these far-right parties should be had. If the fear of immigrants are such an issue throughout our continent, then we can't just ignore it and tell the people they are a bunch of racists for voting the way they do.
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In what concerns Portugal, the problem isn't immigration. Sure we have some racist/xenophobic politicians ranting about the brazilian/bangladeshi/nepali communities but that doesn't have real traction with the people due to our low unemployment rate.

The far right party rose in the voting intentions due to the low quality of our main parties politicians and endemic corruption in our society. People are fed up.
 
HTG said:
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...o-oppose-far-right-afds-mass-deportation-plan

I‘m afraid we have to talk about my country. The political atmosphere within Germany is steadily shifting to the right and the AfD keeps gaining support. Some of their members actually held a secret meeting with two members of the Christian democrats (CDU, Merkel’s party), members of the Identitäre Bewegung (a Nazi movement) and some rich business people, where they discussed who would be deported if they gained and solidified power.
The AfD is on their way to become the strongest power in virtually all of the former East of Germany and is gaining more and more influence in local governments throughout the country.
It is becoming increasingly difficult for established parties to form functioning governments without them participating.
For the first time in my life, I’m actually genuinely afraid of our political landscape.
All the taboos that were so deeply entrenched in our society after the third Reich seem to break. People become more and more radical. The language regarding immigration more and more mirrors that of this dark time.
And the worst thing is that nobody seems to have any idea what to do about it.
The situation is very serious. More than I have ever seen it.
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I spent seven years in Thuringia from 2006 to 2013 for my studies, before moving to Cologne and there was everything in the former Länder of East Germany, from the mentality to the poor economic conditions, for the AfD to take hold and begins its expansion.

I remember it when it was just liberal conservative and eurosceptic. "The party of the professors" pandering to an educated middle-class, nothing like what it has become, although in hindsight, the signs were already there. I honestly didn't pay them much attention until 2015 and Petry's take-over and there already were some trying to raise the alarm, a worry that I shared.

I'm still astonished by its drastic shift to the far-right and the speed of its growth but I think that the 2015 mass immigration has massively played into the more radical members hand and they've never stopped gaining traction ever since. The Ukraine War and its indirect economical consequences on the inflation and high energy bills doesn't help at all. The CDU and the SPD could never find a sound strategy to counter them, other than try to (unsuccessfullly) hunt on their lands and now the AfD is just inevitable.

Germany's political situation, isn't different from what's happening not only in Europe but in the West in general. There's a massive distrust towards the traditional parties, a widespread anti-immigration sentiment, and the shift to the (far) right began a while ago. It just took longer for the dam to break in Germany because of WWII, but I too think that it now did, and nothing will stop the flood.
 
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Sly said:
In what concerns Portugal, the problem isn't immigration. Sure we have some racist/xenophobic politicians ranting about the brazilian/bangladeshi/nepali communities but that doesn't have real traction with the people due to our low unemployment rate.

The far right party rose in the voting intentions due to the low quality of our main parties politicians and endemic corruption in our society. People are fed up.
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I'm not sure I agree, why are people not going for the left wing parties, which have by far more qualified people than the far right and are talking about real issues?

Deep down what motivates many of these folks is good old racism, sprinkled with transgenders will eat our children.
 
This discontent with immigration policy is happening in Ireland too, if I can believe the stories I’m hearing from there.
Not full on national front stuff but definite rumblings and arson at immigrant shelters kind of thing is what I heard. Isolated incidents I’d imagine (hopefully) but also quite a departure.

What say the posters familiar with the situation in Ireland?
 
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maniak said:
I'm not sure I agree, why are people not going for the left wing parties, which have by far more qualified people than the far right and are talking about real issues?

Deep down what motivates many of these folks is good old racism, sprinkled with transgenders will eat our children.
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In Portugal Transgenderism isn't really an issue. It doesn't have the same clout as in the US or UK. It has residual influence on voting. Bar André Ventura and his fascist party doing the tired unfunny Martim Moniz migrants don't work schtik, no one really talks about immigration. Even with Chega party the main rallying cry for their rise to prominence was about gypsies and them taking advantage of benefits. See how Chega rose in Alentejo, specially in places like Elvas and their problem with the gypsy communities.

Immigration to Portugal is basically made up of low skilled workers that work in agriculture doing jobs that portuguese people don't want. With our low unemployment rate people can't use the "they took our jobs" reasoning. I live in Lisbon and talking with people their main concern isn't immigration. It's the state of our NHS, lack of housing, affordable rent or price of energy.

I think we have a cultural problem with what concerns racism, our colonial history, under representation and lack of opportunities for minorities but for me the main reason for the rise in far right is the low quality and incompetence of our political system.

I do agree about your assessment regarding the qualification of left wing people compared with right wing populists as Ventura and untalented, uncharismatic politicians as Montenegro but the problem was the last years of Costa, inept use and squandering of EU funds, lack of structural reforms, the corruption scandals from the PS party, general public tiredness of socialist rule. Since PSD isn't a real alternative, people flock to the trendy party (media partly to blame) which unfortunately is a far right one.
 
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VorZakone said:
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The EU has given up even on the idea of doing innovation. Essentially, ASML and Airbus are the only European companies who have large strategic value, albeit both are relatively old companies.
 
Revan said:
The EU has given up even on the idea of doing innovation. Essentially, ASML and Airbus are the only European companies who have large strategic value, albeit both are relatively old companies.
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Remember when Germany's Wirecard was a rising fintech player? Good times.
 
utdalltheway said:
This discontent with immigration policy is happening in Ireland too, if I can believe the stories I’m hearing from there.
Not full on national front stuff but definite rumblings and arson at immigrant shelters kind of thing is what I heard. Isolated incidents I’d imagine (hopefully) but also quite a departure.

What say the posters familiar with the situation in Ireland?
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I've never seen such a disconnect between the public and the political establishment (together with the traditional media) over an issue before.
 
Buster15 said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-68126373

French farmers are moving hundreds of tractors into place as a blockade of major roads, termed the "siege of Paris", gets under way

Wonder what will happen during the Olympics...
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It will be all over in a week or two. They're already starting to p!ss people off; It's not just Paris, it's on lots of motorways. Local people know how to get around the blockages but it's stopping deliveries; Moronic twats just like the gilets jaunes. Any sympathy will be soon gone.
 
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Paul the Wolf said:
It will be all over in a week or two. They're already starting to p!ss people off; It's not just Paris, it's on lots of motorways. Local people know how to get around the blockages but it's stopping deliveries; Moronic twats just like the gilets jaunes. Any sympathy will be soon gone.
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Understood thank you for this.
Is it just the farmers or is it showing any signs of spreading to other working people.
 
Buster15 said:
Understood thank you for this.
Is it just the farmers or is it showing any signs of spreading to other working people.
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Just farmers at the moment. My youngest grandson got caught up in it last Thursday night. He takes a 25 minute train ride to his college. He sat the equivalent of his mock GCSE's that day and was exhausted. The motorway was blocked and thus the driver of the train couldn't get to work so the train was cancelled. My son-in-law went to get him and then they both got caught up in it. He was supposed to be home by six and they got home by 8.30pm.

This Saturday my wife had a hospital appointment in the same town and normally I would go on the motorway which would take 35/40 minutes but knew the motorway was blocked, and still is - went through the back roads which takes an extra 20 minutes and avoided it. Although I did come across 4 drunken farmers in tractors continually going around a roundabout to p!ss people off. I slipped in between them and sped away.

There are loads of lorries parked on various parts of the motorways who can't move whilst the farmers have set up, on the motorways - marquis tents , having barbecues and portable toilets having a whale of a time.

Strangely the weather became warm and its about 15 degrees and blue skies.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Just farmers at the moment. My youngest grandson got caught up in it last Thursday night. He takes a 25 minute train ride to his college. He sat the equivalent of his mock GCSE's that day and was exhausted. The motorway was blocked and thus the driver of the train couldn't get to work so the train was cancelled. My son-in-law went to get him and then they both got caught up in it. He was supposed to be home by six and they got home by 8.30pm.

This Saturday my wife had a hospital appointment in the same town and normally I would go on the motorway which would take 35/40 minutes but knew the motorway was blocked, and still is - went through the back roads which takes an extra 20 minutes and avoided it. Although I did come across 4 drunken farmers in tractors continually going around a roundabout to p!ss people off. I slipped in between them and sped away.

There are loads of lorries parked on various parts of the motorways who can't move whilst the farmers have set up, on the motorways - marquis tents , having barbecues and portable toilets having a whale of a time.

Strangely the weather became warm and its about 15 degrees and blue skies.
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No one does protesting better than the French farmers.
Better is not the right word but hopefully you understand my meaning.

This type of protesting would be classed as illegal in England.

How is your MG4 by the way.
 
Buster15 said:
No one does protesting better than the French farmers.
Better is not the right word but hopefully you understand my meaning.

This type of protesting would be classed as illegal in England.

How is your MG4 by the way.
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I know what you mean- but they will harm other people's lives and businesses - as did the gilets jaunes - and support ebbs away.

MG4 going great so far, glad I bought it.
 
From what I've read the farmers desperately need help, so I'm with them on the effort. But. I couldn't get my son to school today: where I live happens to be right around an intersection they're blocking (including a cow, funnily enough). I kind of can't leave the house which was fun for one day...but it'd be nice if we could move this along. Traffic is still just static outside, barely moved all day.

I think it's continuing into tomorrow, but even that's not been announced.

Also, it's actually operation l'escargot. Hard to be mad at that
 
Buster15 said:
Thank you.
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The union leaders are currently meeting with the new Prime Minister, Attal. There is a line of tractors heading towards Paris from the south-west and they're aiming to block Rungis market, (bit like Covent Garden/Nine Elms used to be but much bigger). So blocking food for the country.

Egged on by the usual suspects , populist morons Le Pen and Mélenchon, anything to cause trouble.

In the local paper the farmers actually went to Burger King in the town I mentioned to inspect where the origin of the meat was from.
Now France are the 4th highest exporters of Agricultural products in the world - irony is lost on idiots.
 
“Maassen raised eyebrows in November — and drew praise from extremist bloggers — for saying in an interview with a Swiss newspaper that Germany needed “chemotherapy” to treat the “cancer” of too many immigrants.”
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A pro-Russian aide to a far-right German legislator who attempted to scuttle Berlin’s shipment of main battle tanks to Ukraine is an agent of Russian intelligence, The Insider can now reveal.
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VorZakone said:
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29 of 30 countries ratified our membership in Nato, only Hungary left. And there is some pressure on Hungary, but they want recognition as well. He want to be shown “respect”…. We caved for Erdogan, I can’t see why we‘d say no to Orban at this point. Just get this thing sealed and be done with it.
 
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