EU discussion / and other European countries

The Germans bounced back from WW2, trust them to overcome a tiny recession.

As for excessive bureaucracy, they have a million civil servants less than France with 15 million more inhabitants
That... isn't a good thing at the moment, so not sure why you listed it as such.

Germany is generally lagging far behind in digitalisation & eGovernance compared even to Central European countries, never mind Western or Northern European ones. It ranks much below the EU27-average on eGovernance, it's in fact in the bottom 5 with Romania, Cyprus, Italy and Slovakia.

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On top of that it has a very bloated, bureaucratic model where everything is very strictly regulated, yet the process of interacting with the State is heavily manual (literally involving paper forms and letters). So having few public sector workers is not good, simply because there's not enough of them to keep up and everything becomes a frustratingly-long, opaque process.

While having a "slimmer" public service might be fiscally good, and Germans (on the whole) are openly proud fiscal conservatives, the cost of the bureaucracy to the civilians and businesses is big and often goes uncalculated. Never mind the opportunity cost for faster economic growth. Germany is generally "stuck" both in its governance and in its business model to the 90s-00s days. Compared with some of its neighbours like Denmark, Netherlands and even Austria, it's really lagging far behind.

They can sure turn it around, but there's tough decisions to be taken and some painful times ahead. Their staple business sectors of automotive, construction and manufacturing are all in dire straits.
 
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We'll see, it is for sure difficult not to be very pessimistic about security and stability in Europe for the coming years. Russia must be in overdrive right now planning their campaigns and influences across Europe.

There is still the chance that EU will step up collectively (for the most part, excluding Hungary/Slovakia, maybe Germany) and realize the dangerous situation that is unfolding and take a stance against Russia with increased military spending and security without reliance on US



Specially Finland/Sweden and Baltic states, and Poland, who have the most to lose due to their proximity to Russia. We might see a shakeup of alliances - perhaps EU in its current form will fold and other kinds of cooperation come through instead. Too soon to tell but the window to take a strong stance and shape the security for the coming decade will also close quickly.

I wouldn’t count on Germany at all. So I would pull the maybe in front of us. The next government will likely be even worse than the current one and the electoral future looks dire. AfD is firmly established in the mainstream by now and the only party able to rival their populism is the BSW, which is also a Russian asset. Were close to a situation were two of the five biggest parties are basically Russian operations.
Our only hope is to forbid the AfD. Otherwise, the future looks very dark for us.
 
That... isn't a good thing at the moment, so not sure why you listed it as such.

Germany is generally lagging far behind in digitalisation & eGovernance compared even to Central European countries, never mind Western or Northern European ones. It ranks much below the EU27-average on eGovernance, it's in fact in the bottom 5 with Romania, Cyprus, Italy and Slovakia.

BqbYSHv.png

On top of that it has a very bloated, bureaucratic model where everything is very strictly regulated, yet the process of interacting with the State is heavily manual (literally involving paper forms and letters). So having few public sector workers is not good, simply because there's not enough of them keep to up and everything becomes a frustratingly-long, opaque process.

While having a "slimmer" public service might be fiscally good, and Germans (on the whole) are openly proud fiscal conservatives, the cost of the bureaucracy to the civilians and businesses is big and often goes uncalculated. Never mind the opportunity cost for faster economic growth. Germany is generally "stuck" both in its governance and in its business model to the 90s-00s days. Compared with some of its neighbours like Denmark, Netherlands and even Austria, it's really lagging far behind.

They can sure turn it around, but there's tough decisions to be taken and some painful times ahead. Their staple business sectors of automotive, construction and manufacturing are all in dire straits.
Working in public administration in Germany, I can only agree. If it wasn’t for Covid, we’d be even further behind in terms of digitalisation.
And the bureaucracy is impossible to imagine for people outside of Germany. It is kafkaesque at times. We have too few workers, too few qualified ones and we’re stuck in the early 2000‘s in regards to technology.
 

And this is where the German dilemma starts. We aren’t allowed by our constitution to make new debt, unless we have an extreme situation. Which makes it almost impossible to do, what is suggested in the tweet.
 
Working in public administration in Germany, I can only agree. If it wasn’t for Covid, we’d be even further behind in terms of digitalisation.
And the bureaucracy is impossible to imagine for people outside of Germany. It is kafkaesque at times. We have too few workers, too few qualified ones and we’re stuck in the early 2000‘s in regards to technology.
Also, the size of grey economy in Germany must be huge resulting in substantial tax avoidance. It was really an eye opener this summer when in Berlin for the Euros (having not visited Germany for a few years) how prevalent cash still was in shops / cafes, living in Lithuania I almost forgotten how banknotes are like.
 
Also, the size of grey economy in Germany must be huge resulting in substantial tax avoidance. It was really an eye opener this summer when in Berlin for the Euros (having not visited Germany for a few years) how prevalent cash still was in shops / cafes, living in Lithuania I almost forgotten how banknotes are like.
We are a paradise for money laundering. I think it’s one of the reasons why the Italian mafia is currently so big around here. People in Germany don’t seem to trust electronic cash transactions for some reason. No idea why.
 
We are a paradise for money laundering. I think it’s one of the reasons why the Italian mafia is currently so big around here. People in Germany don’t seem to trust electronic cash transactions for some reason. No idea why.
Political will must be lacking to stamp it out, people will adapt and accept over the time but seems like political leadership is really weak and allergic to progress and technological advancements.
 
Political will must be lacking to stamp it out, people will adapt and accept over the time but seems like political leadership is really weak and allergic to progress and technological advancements.
They are afraid to touch stuff like that. It will immediately anger older voters and they are the holiest of cows for German politicians. Basically our whole political landscape serves to appease the elderly.
 
I doubt FDP wants to go to elections with their current polling numbers… I see a good chance of a minority government (SPD + Green) kept alive by some revised deal with FDP. The latter getting the benefit of going to the next elections as a non-government party.
 
I doubt FDP wants to go to elections with their current polling numbers… I see a good chance of a minority government (SPD + Green) kept alive by some revised deal with FDP. The latter getting the benefit of going to the next elections as a non-government party.
Doubt Lindner can afford that now. He just got rightfully humiliated.
Joke of a party and I hope this charlatan will be done soon. Nevertheless, CDU and AFD polling at 50%+ right now is the stuff of nightmares anyway.
 
Doubt Lindner can afford that now. He just got rightfully humiliated.
Joke of a party and I hope this charlatan will be done soon. Nevertheless, CDU and AFD polling at 50%+ right now is the stuff of nightmares anyway.
Not sure who actually got humiliated there (possibly everyone). If I've ever seen a political own goal it was Scholz's speech tonight, essentially trashing the 3 years he's been Kanzler in the only ever speech people actually stuck around to listen to him.
 
They are lame ducks for a long time now. Worst post war German government of all time, without a doubt shadow of doubt. Individually this is how they are polling right now:

FDP = 3 %
Green Party = 10 %
SPD = 15 %.

Imagine a 15 % chancelor and even those 15 % only thanks to 70 year olds who vote for them out of habit. The Green sect which are voted for by a few rich out of touch do gooders with a bad conscience and college students who haven't grown up yet. And the FDP who get their votes from ... well, no one anymore. Will be out of the parliament.

Unfortunately CDU post Merkel doesn't really differ much from these and that's what the majority of Germans have not fully grasped yet. We'll probably get CDU + Green Party next and the downward spiral of Germany will continue. Merkel was a respectable figure on the foreign stage but caved too many times to the left in interior politics so the erosion started under her spell. She was a nice mommy to everyone who administered but didn't govern.

And that's the problem with the German political landscape. CDU + SPD + Green + FDP can easily merge into 1 party, not much difference between them.
 
They are lame ducks for a long time now. Worst post war German government of all time, without a doubt shadow of doubt. Individually this is how they are polling right now:

FDP = 3 %
Green Party = 10 %
SPD = 15 %.

Imagine a 15 % chancelor and even those 15 % only thanks to 70 year olds who vote for them out of habit. The Green sect which are voted for by a few rich out of touch do gooders with a bad conscience and college students who haven't grown up yet. And the FDP who get their votes from ... well, no one anymore. Will be out of the parliament.

Unfortunately CDU post Merkel doesn't really differ much from these and that's what the majority of Germans have not fully grasped yet. We'll probably get CDU + Green Party next and the downward spiral of Germany will continue. Merkel was a respectable figure on the foreign stage but caved too many times to the left in interior politics so the erosion started under her spell. She was a nice mommy to everyone who administered but didn't govern.

And that's the problem with the German political landscape. CDU + SPD + Green + FDP can easily merge into 1 party, not much difference between them.
Doesn’t this legislation prove that they’re very much not compatible? Why would you say they could be one party then? It makes no sense
 
Doesn’t this legislation prove that they’re very much not compatible? Why would you say they could be one party then? It makes no sense

The coalition didn't fail because of incompatibility. It failed because of incompetence. Replace FDP with Linke and you get the same, if not worse result. Even woke Berlin voted SPD-Linke-Green out last time around. These are simply all unelectable parties filled with politicians who don't even hold any sort of degree or education yet for some reason CDU is pandering to them.
 
The coalition didn't fail because of incompatibility. It failed because of incompetence. Replace FDP with Linke and you get the same, if not worse result. Even woke Berlin voted SPD-Linke-Green out last time around. These are simply all unelectable parties filled with politicians who don't even hold any sort of degree or education yet for some reason CDU is pandering to them.
That’s just populist nonsense. The coalition is clearly failing over ideological differences.
 
That’s just populist nonsense. The coalition is clearly failing over ideological differences.
Is it though? As far as I can tell the deciding factor was that Lindner didn't want to go against the "Schuldenbremse" (cap in borrowing) to fix the budget. Understandable, after all the previous time they did it, timed for political convenience, the highest court in the country decided it was unconstitutional. That could have been avoided had the war in Ukraine been used to permanently declare the cap obsolete or at least paused. For me they mismanaged themselves into this dead end of ideological differences. On first principles their ideologies aren't incompatible at all.

To who you assign the the most blame is probably determined by ones own outlook. For me it's the SPD and Scholz. They have been part of a ruling coalition for 22 of the previous 26 years and together with the CDU are responsible for the long term problems the country currently faces.
 
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Is it though? As far as I can tell the deciding factor was that Lindner didn't want to go against the "Schuldenbremse" (cap in borrowing) to fix the budget. Understandable, after all the previous time they did it, timed for political convenience, the highest court in the country decided it was unconstitutional. That could have been avoided had the war in Ukraine been used to permanently declare the cap obsolete or at least paused. For me they mismanaged themselves into this dead end of ideological differences. On first principles their ideologies aren't incompatible at all.

To who you assign the the most blame is probably determined by ones own outlook. For me it's the SPD and Scholz. They have been part of a ruling coalition for 22 of the previous 26 years and together with the CDU are responsible for the long term problems the country currently faces.
Lindner‘s refusal to go against the Schuldenbremse is the ideological difference between the parties. It was motivated by his firm believe that the state should spend as little money as possible. It doesn’t get much more ideological than this. And his refusal to do so, is irresponsible in a time of badly needed infrastructure investments and the need to aid Ukraine. Lindner is so dogmatic, he refused to compromise in times of a war in Europe ffs.
There’s a reason reputable economists warned Scholz that he shouldn’t make him finance minister. Lindner is a human and political disaster that should be held as far from any real responsibility as possible.
 
Lindner‘s refusal to go against the Schuldenbremse is the ideological difference between the parties. It was motivated by his firm believe that the state should spend as little money as possible. It doesn’t get much more ideological than this. And his refusal to do so, is irresponsible in a time of badly needed infrastructure investments and the need to aid Ukraine. Lindner is so dogmatic, he refused to compromise in times of a war in Europe ffs.
There’s a reason reputable economists warned Scholz that he shouldn’t make him finance minister. Lindner is a human and political disaster that should be held as far from any real responsibility as possible.
It was the SPD that introduced it together with the CDU. With many of the votes of todays parliamentarians too. It wasn't supposed to be lifted until they suddenly needed to, to access more money.

Scholz now acting as if the effort he has been dragging his feet on for over 2 years (supporting Ukraine) was made impossible because of Lindner is as far from the truth as anything Trump claims.
 
There is no ideological difference. FDP are doing this solely to save their own asses. They have plummeted below the 5 % hurdle. Why have they done that? Because people expected the FDP to stop the worst excesses of the other 2 parties. Yet in 3 years the FDP never did anything. The dominating topics all come from the Green Party even though FDP actually is equally strong in the parliament. This government has implemented laws to receive the German passport quicker, allowed double citizenship, implemented transgender law where you just declare yourself whatever you wanna be on a whim and people at old age who paid off decades for their homes are suddenly supposed to renovate their homes again with costs possibly beyond 100k because oil and gas heating systems are supposed to be forbidden and heat pumps only make sense if your house is renovated with modern insulation, underfloor heating etc. Social welfare benefits are so high now people who never worked and aren't even citizens get roughly 600 € cash on top of free healthcare + free rent, amounting to 1.200 €-ish per month per single person. Meaning that simple jobs are completely unattractive now so no one does them despite millions of refugees coming in. Why work 40 hours a week as a cashier or butcher when you can get the same money doing nothing?

All left projects. What did we get from FDP? Nothing. So they were completely okay ideologically with everything for 3 years until they became obsolet in the eye of the electorate. Now they are trying to save their own asses, not the country.

So you are wasting taxpayer money into the lost cause Ukraine while no one in Germany really cares where the borders between Ukraine and Russia are drawn unless they are morally blackmailed into it by the Green media, let in millions of refugees into your social security system who never paid in while your industry is collapsing left and right (all big car manufacturers recently issued profit warnings, we have a record number of insolvencies) and your solution is to burden future generations with even more debt, against the constitution. Hilarious. Yet deserved. This population is mass hypnotized and nothing but a big economic collapse will wake the country up, if at all. I have my doubts even then. Germans are notorious in following wrong ideologies until Endsieg unless a foreign power saves them.
 
I absolutely adore the conviction that Germany is some sort of magical, isolated island that is completely shielded from negative consequences of neighboring countries being completely dysfunctional, corrupt and unstable.
 
Racism
Tell me you're voting AfD without telling me you're voting AfD

Great argument. I'll tell you a secret though. I won't vote for anyone soon in Germany because we've long decided to move to Switzerland once my PhD is finished. It may appear as if I were mad from my rants but I'm actually very calm. This time there are no walls in this socialist utopia where you pay the highest energy prices and highest taxes in the world to feed millions of migrants and pump money into a collapsing ex Soviet country because "hurr durr Russia will attack us too if not", all the while shutting your own economy down while bridges are literally collapsing. If Germany wants to commit economic and social seppuku and 80 % of the voters don't want different politics because "aber Höcke!!!" then that's democracy, I have no problems with that. I have the freedom to go elsewhere after all, so no hard feelings, my posts shouldn't be seen as rants, rather cold description of the reality in Germany.

I absolutely adore the conviction that Germany is some sort of magical, isolated island that is completely shielded from negative consequences of neighboring countries being completely dysfunctional, corrupt and unstable.

Rich comming from a Pole whose country only lets in Ukrainian women and 0 Middle Eastern men so your girlfriend/wife can actually feel safe out alone at night and whose president stopped weapon delivery to Ukraine and called the Ukrainian ambassador in because of a dispute about grain imports. :lol: Your country is actually looking like the Germany of the 90s while Germany is like the Libanon of the 60s which used to be the "Switzerland of the Middle East" and has now turned into ... well, the Libanon we know today.
 
Great argument. I'll tell you a secret though. I won't vote for anyone soon in Germany because we've long decided to move to Switzerland once my PhD is finished. It may appear as if I were mad from my rants but I'm actually very calm. This time there are no walls in this socialist utopia where you pay the highest energy prices and highest taxes in the world to feed millions of migrants and pump money into a collapsing ex Soviet country because "hurr durr Russia will attack us too if not", all the while shutting your own economy down while bridges are literally collapsing. If Germany wants to commit economic and social seppuku and 80 % of the voters don't want different politics because "aber Höcke!!!" then that's democracy, I have no problems with that. I have the freedom to go elsewhere after all, so no hard feelings, my posts shouldn't be seen as rants, rather cold description of the reality in Germany.



Rich comming from a Pole whose country only lets in Ukrainian women and 0 Middle Eastern men so your girlfriend/wife can actually feel safe out alone at night and whose president stopped weapon delivery to Ukraine and called the Ukrainian ambassador in because of a dispute about grain imports. :lol: Your country is actually looking like the Germany of the 90s while Germany is like the Libanon of the 60s which used to be the "Switzerland of the Middle East" and has now turned into ... well, the Libanon we know today.
Hope you enjoy your Swiss utopia where all the scary brown people can’t get you.
 
Great argument. I'll tell you a secret though. I won't vote for anyone soon in Germany because we've long decided to move to Switzerland once my PhD is finished. It may appear as if I were mad from my rants but I'm actually very calm. This time there are no walls in this socialist utopia where you pay the highest energy prices and highest taxes in the world to feed millions of migrants and pump money into a collapsing ex Soviet country because "hurr durr Russia will attack us too if not", all the while shutting your own economy down while bridges are literally collapsing. If Germany wants to commit economic and social seppuku and 80 % of the voters don't want different politics because "aber Höcke!!!" then that's democracy, I have no problems with that. I have the freedom to go elsewhere after all, so no hard feelings, my posts shouldn't be seen as rants, rather cold description of the reality in Germany.



Rich comming from a Pole whose country only lets in Ukrainian women and 0 Middle Eastern men so your girlfriend/wife can actually feel safe out alone at night and whose president stopped weapon delivery to Ukraine and called the Ukrainian ambassador in because of a dispute about grain imports. :lol: Your country is actually looking like the Germany of the 90s while Germany is like the Libanon of the 60s which used to be the "Switzerland of the Middle East" and has now turned into ... well, the Libanon we know today.

Your rants don't make you seem mad, they just make you seem like a bigot.
 
Great argument. I'll tell you a secret though. I won't vote for anyone soon in Germany because we've long decided to move to Switzerland once my PhD is finished. It may appear as if I were mad from my rants but I'm actually very calm. This time there are no walls in this socialist utopia where you pay the highest energy prices and highest taxes in the world to feed millions of migrants and pump money into a collapsing ex Soviet country because "hurr durr Russia will attack us too if not", all the while shutting your own economy down while bridges are literally collapsing. If Germany wants to commit economic and social seppuku and 80 % of the voters don't want different politics because "aber Höcke!!!" then that's democracy, I have no problems with that. I have the freedom to go elsewhere after all, so no hard feelings, my posts shouldn't be seen as rants, rather cold description of the reality in Germany.
You also have the freedom to not make every post incredibly bitter and yet here we are.


Rich comming from a Pole whose country only lets in Ukrainian women and 0 Middle Eastern men so your girlfriend/wife can actually feel safe out alone at night and whose president stopped weapon delivery to Ukraine and called the Ukrainian ambassador in because of a dispute about grain imports. :lol: Your country is actually looking like the Germany of the 90s while Germany is like the Libanon of the 60s which used to be the "Switzerland of the Middle East" and has now turned into ... well, the Libanon we know today.
1. Jesse, what the feck are you talking about?
2. Even if that were the case, what would even be the relevance? Even if you absolutely despise immigrants (I'm sure that you are one of the few good ones though, unlike them) instability in those countries is a massive contributing factor and Germans closing their eyes on what is happening there is not going to magically solve anything here, nor save you from similar bullshit if one of the Putin's heirs decides that they can benefit from doing similar stuff there.
 
@Cait Sith showing that academic success only correlates with intelligence. The „hurr durr“ rant is the cherry on top of the rant of a clueless Fachidiot (at best).
 
France Seeks to Rope in Poland to Block Mercosur Trade Deal

France is hoping to persuade Poland into joining forces to block a trade deal between the European Union and Latin America’s Mercosur bloc that’s been a quarter of a century in the making.


Prime Minister Michel Barnier’s cabinet is aiming to convince Warsaw to form a coalition against the Mercosur pact, amid worries that the European Commission – helmed by Ursula von der Leyen – is pushing negotiations to seal the blockbuster deal by the end of the year, people familiar with the matter said.

Countries with a strong agriculture sector such as Austria, Hungary and Ireland could potentially align with France in objecting to the deal, they said.

Poland has a history of shielding its agricultural industry from foreign competition. The previous government last year imposed a unilateral ban on grain imports from Ukraine sparking a diplomatic spat with Kyiv. The Polish government didn’t respond to a request for comment.

“We aren’t against free trade but this agreement is not acceptable as such,” France’s minister for European affairs Benjamin Haddad told Bloomberg on the sidelines of a summit in Budapest. “When we impose norms and standards on ourselves, then our trade partners must do the same, otherwise we shoot ourselves in the foot, and hurt our farmers and companies.”

The long-delayed Mercosur trade pact comprising Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay was agreed to in principle in 2019 but has mainly been held up by French objections since.

Two people close to President Emmanuel Macron said that the French bid to block the deal remains a long shot as, according to EU rules, Paris would need four member states representing 35% of the population to form a blocking minority.

Germany, which represents around a fifth of the EU population, is a strong backer of the deal, along with Italy and Spain. Germany’s struggling export-oriented economy stands to benefit from the deal as it would open the protectionist Latin American market to European exports such as machinery and cars.

French farmers meanwhile fiercely oppose the deal as they fear South American exporters could cut into their bottom lines with cheaper goods.

France has long been the chief opponent of the pact and has continued to call for “mirror clauses” guaranteeing that the production constraints that weigh on European farmers apply to their Mercosur competitors that have lower health and environment standards.

In response to French concerns, the commission is considering a compensation package for French farmers affected by the deal, people familiar with the negotiations said.

Pascal Lecamp, a lawmaker in Macron’s party and former executive with the French export agency Business France, warned that any financial compensation is unlikely to appease farmers who are already struggling with low prices and bad weather. Lecamp is part of a transpartisan group of 209 lawmakers in the French National Assembly who have called for Macron to reject Mercosur.

“I love Brazil and I’m a strong advocate of free trade, but not at any cost,” Lecamp told Bloomberg in an interview. “No compromise is possible in the short term, unless for instance Brazil stops using antibiotics overnight.”

French farmers unions have called for demonstrations later this month, as sources close to the negotiations say the commission could aim to sign the deal possibly as early as on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in Rio in November.

The commission’s move to seal one of the largest free-trade agreements ever is fraught with political risks. Von der Leyen would provoke a diplomatic war if she were to push the deal at a time when high-stakes negotiations over the budget are underway in the French parliament, a person close to the French government said.

For Macron, the EU’s renewed impetus to get the deal over the line could not have come at a worse time, as his weakened government is struggling to balance the 2025 budget and could face a no-confidence motion before the end of the year.

Brussels could also propose to have part of the deal implemented in a provisional manner in order to avoid a lengthy ratification process that requires a sign-off from every national parliament.

The split would mean that the trade part of the deal would be “EU only,” meaning it will not require member states’ unanimity and only the approval of the European Parliament because it would only cover EU-level competencies. Brussels hopes this would accelerate the deal’s implementation even if the final go-ahead on the remainder of the deal stays pending. Concerns remain however that such a move by Brussels could further fuel Euroskepticism.

Lecamp called the possibility of Von der Leyen splitting the deal in two, and passing the key trade provisions on a provisional basis despite France’s opposition, an undemocratic “trick.”

An EU official said the commission is working to address the concerns of every member state and insisted on the protections offered by the pact.

A spokesperson in Barnier’s office declined to comment on Paris’ strategy to obtain concessions on Mercosur, adding that Macron and Barnier shared the same goals of ensuring uniform standards for farmers on both sides and making sure that the deal doesn’t just refer to the Paris climate accord, but can also be suspended if the accord isn’t respected.
 
Has the potential to become a disaster. Everybody wants to get rid of the current government, but the CDU‘s candidate Merz is also really unpopular. For good reasons. Sobering options.