ETH: "We want to be the best transition team in the world"

Love EtH and this isn't based on the Wolves performance but in the back of my mind i'm wondering how this side eventually develops into a title winning team, which obviously i don't expect this season.

Onana
AWB Varane Martinez Shaw
Bruno Casemiro Mount
Antony Hojlund Rashford

It's a good side on paper but just wondering about the balance and quality, even with a better right back and a better RW option if Antony doesn't improve. A lot depends on how Hojlund settles and hopefully he develops into a world class striker but i don't know, i just have a questions regarding the consistency of some of the players and whether it's quite enough to be the best in the league.
 
The thing is we can't be the best in transition if we can't stop giving the ball away cheaply all the time. What was it today 80+ times? That's just causing perpetual chaos. Now fair enough, the opposition has to have it for there to be an opportunity to force a transition, but the point is to capitalise on it, not just immediately give it back and start over. Until we can get the basics of retaining possession and decision making sorted out anything else is wishful thinking. We should start by picking the players most able to retain the ball, and then work from there.

If that means Bruno & Rashford sits a few out then so be it, but we have to learn and demonstrate the principles the manager wants. Then it is up to them to force their way back in. Does it mean we have less threat? Probably, but it also means we concede less transitions on us and the more we have the ball, the more opportunity to do harm to the opposition.
 
bstb3 said:
The thing is we can't be the best in transition if we can't stop giving the ball away cheaply all the time. What was it today 80+ times? That's just causing perpetual chaos. Now fair enough, the opposition has to have it for there to be an opportunity to force a transition, but the point is to capitalise on it, not just immediately give it back and start over. Until we can get the basics of retaining possession and decision making sorted out anything else is wishful thinking. We should start by picking the players most able to retain the ball, and then work from there.

If that means Bruno & Rashford sits a few out then so be it, but we have to learn and demonstrate the principles the manager wants. Then it is up to them to force their way back in. Does it mean we have less threat? Probably, but it also means we concede less transitions on us and the more we have the ball, the more opportunity to do harm to the opposition.
Click to expand...
Good post, I agree.
 
The biggest contradiction to the idea that we're aiming to become the greatest transitional side in the world is that our midfield three consists of three players who have no exceptional athleticism at all.

They're not fast. They don't have good acceleration. Bruno and Mount aren't particularly strong. There's no dynamic quality at all. How on earth are those three supposed to handle defensive and offensive transitions if they're not athletic enough or strong enough to win physical duels or foot races or aerial duels?
 
bstb3 said:
The thing is we can't be the best in transition if we can't stop giving the ball away cheaply all the time. What was it today 80+ times? That's just causing perpetual chaos. Now fair enough, the opposition has to have it for there to be an opportunity to force a transition, but the point is to capitalise on it, not just immediately give it back and start over. Until we can get the basics of retaining possession and decision making sorted out anything else is wishful thinking. We should start by picking the players most able to retain the ball, and then work from there.

If that means Bruno & Rashford sits a few out then so be it, but we have to learn and demonstrate the principles the manager wants. Then it is up to them to force their way back in. Does it mean we have less threat? Probably, but it also means we concede less transitions on us and the more we have the ball, the more opportunity to do harm to the opposition.
Click to expand...

With Rashford and bruno on the bench, we literally cannot harm the opposition.
 
FriedClams said:
With Rashford and bruno on the bench, we literally cannot harm the opposition.
Click to expand...
Well that might be true at the moment, but it can be also because of the perpetual chaos we are in. Perhaps with more control we will find chances a different way than hit and hope?

The thing is we don't know if we don't try. What we do know is that if we keep conceding the number of turnovers and chances that we did today we will have to score more often than not 3 or 4 to get a win, and that's not practical, even with Bruno and Rashford.
ETH is trying to embed a new style of play where keeping the ball once we win it and using it well are essential. We will be much higher up the pitch and don t have the legs to recover quickly if teams break on us with pace like tonight. Trying to get that installed while losing due to cheap turnovers will kill confidence.
So, try it safely until everyone is comfortable then introduce the risk for the rewards.
 
bstb3 said:
The thing is we can't be the best in transition if we can't stop giving the ball away cheaply all the time. What was it today 80+ times? That's just causing perpetual chaos. Now fair enough, the opposition has to have it for there to be an opportunity to force a transition, but the point is to capitalise on it, not just immediately give it back and start over. Until we can get the basics of retaining possession and decision making sorted out anything else is wishful thinking. We should start by picking the players most able to retain the ball, and then work from there.

If that means Bruno & Rashford sits a few out then so be it, but we have to learn and demonstrate the principles the manager wants. Then it is up to them to force their way back in. Does it mean we have less threat? Probably, but it also means we concede less transitions on us and the more we have the ball, the more opportunity to do harm to the opposition.
Click to expand...

We probably don't have less threat without Bruno and Rashford, but just flat out no threat at all.
 
It's difficult to be the best team in the world at transitions when your frontline can't control the ball and needlessly lose it often.

I just think our players are dumb. They need to work on their decision making.
 
Hoof the ball said:
The biggest contradiction to the idea that we're aiming to become the greatest transitional side in the world is that our midfield three consists of three players who have no exceptional athleticism at all.

They're not fast. They don't have good acceleration. Bruno and Mount aren't particularly strong. There's no dynamic quality at all. How on earth are those three supposed to handle defensive and offensive transitions if they're not athletic enough or strong enough to win physical duels or foot races or aerial duels?
Click to expand...
Yep. You only have to look at how Nunes was carrying the ball and accelerating with the ball in deep areas. None of our midfielders can do that. Maybe Mainoo?
 
bstb3 said:
The thing is we can't be the best in transition if we can't stop giving the ball away cheaply all the time. What was it today 80+ times? That's just causing perpetual chaos. Now fair enough, the opposition has to have it for there to be an opportunity to force a transition, but the point is to capitalise on it, not just immediately give it back and start over. Until we can get the basics of retaining possession and decision making sorted out anything else is wishful thinking. We should start by picking the players most able to retain the ball, and then work from there.

If that means Bruno & Rashford sits a few out then so be it, but we have to learn and demonstrate the principles the manager wants. Then it is up to them to force their way back in. Does it mean we have less threat? Probably, but it also means we concede less transitions on us and the more we have the ball, the more opportunity to do harm to the opposition.
Click to expand...
As others have said without Bruno and Rashford we would have zero threat and I would prefer chaos with a threat than aimlessly keeping the ball. I think we may be overreacting to one game but I think the biggest issue is that we need a center forward who can hold up and keep the ball. The lack of a focal point I think played a big part in the loss of possession.
 
As much as we want to have the ball and to be a transition team this won't happen with the current players and if we want to achieve this we need ball playing midfielders and we have none.

If we want to be the best transition team in the world we need to completely demolish our midfield and build a new one.

We need to go from Case-Mount-Bruno to something like Camavinga-De Jong-Barella which is wet-dream.

As much as I hate Chelsea, I have to admit to them that their midfield rebuild was perfectly done. They sold useless Mount and Kavertz for 130m pounds rough added 25 to 30m more from Kovacic and bought Caicedo/Lavia with this money and have already Enzo in their midfield.

Caicedo Lavia Enzo is world class but to achieve that you need money and Glazers will never manage to achieve something like this.
 
CantonaManc said:
As much as we want to have the ball and to be a transition team this won't happen with the current players and if we want to achieve this we need ball playing midfielders and we have none.

If we want to be the best transition team in the world we need to completely demolish our midfield and build a new one.

We need to go from Case-Mount-Bruno to something like Camavinga-De Jong-Barella which is wet-dream.

As much as I hate Chelsea, I have to admit to them that their midfield rebuild was perfectly done. They sold useless Mount and Kavertz for 130m pounds rough added 25 to 30m more from Kovacic and bought Caicedo/Lavia with this money and have already Enzo in their midfield.

Caicedo Lavia Enzo is world class but to achieve that you need money and Glazers will never manage to achieve something like this.
Click to expand...
Yup!
 
CantonaManc said:
As much as we want to have the ball and to be a transition team this won't happen with the current players and if we want to achieve this we need ball playing midfielders and we have none.

If we want to be the best transition team in the world we need to completely demolish our midfield and build a new one.

We need to go from Case-Mount-Bruno to something like Camavinga-De Jong-Barella which is wet-dream.

As much as I hate Chelsea, I have to admit to them that their midfield rebuild was perfectly done. They sold useless Mount and Kavertz for 130m pounds rough added 25 to 30m more from Kovacic and bought Caicedo/Lavia with this money and have already Enzo in their midfield.

Caicedo Lavia Enzo is world class but to achieve that you need money and Glazers will never manage to achieve something like this.
Click to expand...
What could save us is that we have a couple of youngsters that could just about be serviceable in the 8 role. I am not sure Casemiro will give us the season, we need to be wary and bring in a player that ensures we don't suffer if he declines suddenly a la Matic but would also allow us to manage his minutes so that he is at his best when we need him. Amrabat looks like that player.

We can find use for Mount on wing in a Beckhamsque right sided role given that Antony looks like another dud. Hopefully Rasmus is ready to be the hold up striker around which our forward play is pivoted or Martial gets fitter. We know that the Bruno-Rashford combo has just about enough goals in it to make us competitive so we need to tighten that midfield and go for low scoring wins.
 
Irwin99 said:
Love EtH and this isn't based on the Wolves performance but in the back of my mind i'm wondering how this side eventually develops into a title winning team, which obviously i don't expect this season.

Onana
AWB Varane Martinez Shaw
Bruno Casemiro Mount
Antony Hojlund Rashford

It's a good side on paper but just wondering about the balance and quality, even with a better right back and a better RW option if Antony doesn't improve. A lot depends on how Hojlund settles and hopefully he develops into a world class striker but i don't know, i just have a questions regarding the consistency of some of the players and whether it's quite enough to be the best in the league.
Click to expand...
Waste of hopefully a great striker in Holjund having Anthony on the right wing. He can’t cross with his right foot, in fact he struggles to make the most simple of passes with his right foot, I honestly think ETH dropped a clanger in signing this Christy type player(Google Christy and my left foot). Anthony slows us down time and time again, I don’t like him and I wonder why he get picked ahead of Pellestri who deserves a run of games.
 
feck transitions we need a midfield who can defend and control a game. Casamiro cant do it on his own. Its Bruno or mount , they cant play together.
 
The Mitcher said:
You don't buy players like Martinez and Onana to play counter-attacking football.
Click to expand...

Both are very capable of sending long pass straight to front. The question should be if we don't want to play counter-attacking football why didnt we buy a Deep Lying Playmaker, someone who can help us to hold possession? We have no one who can control the tempo in midfield.
 
garelo said:
Both are very capable of sending long pass straight to front. The question should be if we don't want to play counter-attacking football why didnt we buy a Deep Lying Playmaker, someone who can help us to hold possession? We have no one who can control the tempo in midfield.
Click to expand...
Ask ETH, he's the man with the plan.
 
The Mitcher said:
Ask ETH, he's the man with the plan.
Click to expand...
Well if he trully wants us to be the best transition team in the world then the first thing he should do is to stop playing Rashford as no. 9 get someone who can hold up the ball, link up and bring everyone into the game.
 
Orange Tree said:
It's difficult to be the best team in the world at transitions when your frontline can't control the ball and needlessly lose it often.

I just think our players are dumb. They need to work on their decision making.
Click to expand...
I’ve been saying this for years. We don’t have smart players on or off the ball in attack or midfield. And when we do have one or two, like Eriksen, he’s past his prime.
We also don’t have consistency. I just want to see consistent players, playing well for months. But it looks like every other match we forget how to string two passes. Frustrating.
 
Can't see it with Eth. The Dutch are very stubborn, will be his downfall if he can't see this team is not mentally strong or physical enough!
 
On individual level we have good players who are capable of playing both transitional as well ass possession-based football (to some degree). We should be challenging Liverpool/Chelsea/Newcastle for 3rd spot easily. But from what I've seen so far, the team is less than the sum of its parts. The transfers we've been doing are also questionable when you see Chelsea rebuilding their midfield in 2 windows, while we have not addressed the biggest problem we have waiting just around the corner (Casemiro backup).
 
garelo said:
Both are very capable of sending long pass straight to front. The question should be if we don't want to play counter-attacking football why didnt we buy a Deep Lying Playmaker, someone who can help us to hold possession? We have no one who can control the tempo in midfield.
Click to expand...
I feel like dropping Hannibal in alongside Cas in a double pivot would be the making of this team. I'm not bigging Mejbri up or anything, but even if he is raw, he has the exact skillset necessary to thrive there (unlike our other options).
 
garelo said:
Well if he trully wants us to be the best transition team in the world then the first thing he should do is to stop playing Rashford as no. 9 get someone who can hold up the ball, link up and bring everyone into the game.
Click to expand...

He did. The lads injured.
 
Melville Red said:
Waste of hopefully a great striker in Holjund having Anthony on the right wing. He can’t cross with his right foot, in fact he struggles to make the most simple of passes with his right foot, I honestly think ETH dropped a clanger in signing this Christy type player(Google Christy and my left foot). Anthony slows us down time and time again, I don’t like him and I wonder why he get picked ahead of Pellestri who deserves a run of games.
Click to expand...
:D

Christy could well become Antony's new nickname!
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again - EtH is going to need patience for him to bring success back to Old Trafford - that patience will dwindle if we ever get a new ownership structure and we're still forever stuck in this state of transition. I'm not saying that is right but we get new owners and spend another season not progressing to winning ways, he will be gone. You might ask, well who will replace him? Well, there's always someone waiting in the wings as the next best thing. I have no idea right now who that is.

I really like him to be honest, but the big problem is that I ain't seeing anything of what he talks about show itself on the pitch. That must be frustrating for him too, he knows he;s still putting his own mark on this club, but this season we've got to see some of those words about transition, fitness, pressing, intelligence, creation etc come to fruition at least in the context of progress in the way we play football and the consistency in which we show it.
 
I dont mind being a transition team, but can we stop treating the ball like a hot potato?
 
We could become a top transition team if our players can understand a system of one dropping deeper when needed. Mount can win the ball deeper or higher up. Bruno can play great balls through in a deeper position and press well. With Hojlund Rashford we can play fast transitions and use Onana. We do need a chain through though and the players will have to take turns in closing some of the space more and offering an outlet instead of advancing forward too far and leaving too much to do. Mount is probably a key player for ETH in what he has in mind, we've just got to work on it and build that understanding.
 
Last edited:
Gonna be interesting to see how this team transforms from the shitstorm in the press at the moment to an acceptable performance v spurs.
 
garelo said:
then get the one in the squad that is available right now. the job wont be scoring goals but to hold up the ball and bring everyone into the game.
Click to expand...

Who? Do you have a name or just randomly outraging?
 
CantonaManc said:
As much as we want to have the ball and to be a transition team this won't happen with the current players and if we want to achieve this we need ball playing midfielders and we have none.

If we want to be the best transition team in the world we need to completely demolish our midfield and build a new one.

We need to go from Case-Mount-Bruno to something like Camavinga-De Jong-Barella which is wet-dream.

As much as I hate Chelsea, I have to admit to them that their midfield rebuild was perfectly done. They sold useless Mount and Kavertz for 130m pounds rough added 25 to 30m more from Kovacic and bought Caicedo/Lavia with this money and have already Enzo in their midfield.

Caicedo Lavia Enzo is world class but to achieve that you need money and Glazers will never manage to achieve something like this.
Click to expand...
It's not "world class."

What have Lavia and Caicedo achieved in the grand scheme of things? One played for Brighton last season and another got relegated. Only Enzo has any kind of claim to that, mostly based on his international career.

They're just the current flavour of the month. They have to actually go out and prove they're world class or develop into it in the case of Lavia, you don't just get given such accolades. It's about consistency at the top end of competition, competing for trophies, performances when it really matters - playing well for plucky underdogs and getting a big transfer fee isn't enough.
 
Interested to see if he changes tactics up a bit as a reaction to the Wolves game, or if he just sticks with it results be damned.
 
Abraxas said:
It's not "world class."

What have Lavia and Caicedo achieved in the grand scheme of things? One played for Brighton last season and another got relegated. Only Enzo has any kind of claim to that, mostly based on his international career.

They're just the current flavour of the month. They have to actually go out and prove they're world class or develop into it in the case of Lavia, you don't just get given such accolades. It's about consistency at the top end of competition, competing for trophies, performances when it really matters - playing well for plucky underdogs and getting a big transfer fee isn't enough.
Click to expand...

Bit harsh, I think. First of all I'd hope that players achieve big things after signing for us. Before that it's all about potential. Stingy Liverpool valuing these two at 160m+ should say something about how highly regarded they are. That's not being flavor of the month as far as the clubs are concerned. For the supporters, sure I agree. We're basically a Hojlund-hat-trick-on-debut away from a new flavor of the month. :-)
 
erikcred said:
Bit harsh, I think. First of all I'd hope that players achieve big things after signing for us. Before that it's all about potential. Stingy Liverpool valuing these two at 160m+ should say something about how highly regarded they are. That's not being flavor of the month as far as the clubs are concerned. For the supporters, sure I agree. We're basically a Hojlund-hat-trick-on-debut away from a new flavor of the month. :-)
Click to expand...
Flavour of the month might be harsh, but they're closer to that than world class. Especially Lavia. They're good players but transfer fees and interest are not what makes a player. I believe they have to go out there and perform and perform to a level that puts them among the very elite. There have been many, many high profile and expensive transfers where the players are not what they were made out to be so let's not crown them before they've risen.

It's just a classic example of this envy that is created. Fans always looking at what rivals do and assuming it is good whereas when you're a pessimist everything we do is bad. Grass is greener syndrome. Whereas actually are Chelsea really operating that well, last season they finished midtable after spending a fortune...

Another example, after the Wolves game we had a few praising the amazing structure and coaching of Wolves and fundamentally questioning ten Hag within those same things, and not just within the one football match but as a wider point. Well, let's see what Wolves amazing tactics gets them...wonder if they'd like to support Wolves and enjoy their football for the season!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.