ETH on United philosophy: “Built a side to play direct football”… “Impossible to play like Ajax”

I dont think being "more direct" is a problem. For example Real Madrid went a more direct route than Barcelona. Still some great football and success

The problem is we're crap at it. And to be honest one of the reasons is we build up too slow. For example in Ole's original run as he came into the club we played some devastating counterattacking football springing from back to front. We dont build up at that pace now. Most of the time in a game where we have half of the ball we end up attacking teams who are sat back with loads of players behind the ball and unable to have the intelligence and cleverness to open them up with our movements and patterns. The whole point of counterattacking and being direct is that you get to find your danger players in the areas they want the ball, when the opponents are out of position or stretched super thin covering each other's positions. If you're trying to be direct against a team with 9 players behind the ball its not going to work.
 
Conor said:
I can almost guarantee that it is poor communication, there is no way he is trying to play like Stoke, he is just saying that he has to adapt to the players he has and the culture around the club. Not that it's particularly working, but these comments are definitely going to be blown out of proportion by the frothing at the mouth section of the forum.
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Adapt to which players? The 10 players that he has brought to the club himself? As for the ‘culture of the club’ that you also referenced - clearly something in that. Somewhere in there is a ‘United Way’ nonsense that seems to prohibit us from doing anything other than looking for a player who will ‘win the title for us’. Ever since Cantona ‘did it’.

We’re lightyears behind every top club and now even a fair few average clubs too.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I don't read those comments as bad, it's just factual. Any coach coming into United would be mad to try and displace Rashford or Bruno (the same would have been the case for MG) and therefore you simply can't play possession football to a high level because you have 2/4 of the attack whose game revolves around counter and low percentage shots/passes/take ons.
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True I doubt any manager would be allowed to sell Rashford or Bruno.

Jose wanted to get rid of Shaw and Martial and the club blocked him.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
But thats the point of hiring coaches and having daily training sessions isn't it, to train players to play a certain way. I don't understand how clubs with the fraction of the budget of ours are able to play this way, but it's a seemingly impossible job at United?
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Sure, but you can't polish a turd. The bigger problem is that he seems to be replacing turds with more turds.

Think it's a mixture of him actually not being up to the job, and the job being made even harder by complete lack of any strategy or knowhow amongst the executives and directors. The club's broken and the manager isn't as good as we thought he was/hoped he would be. Both can be true at the same time.
 
This is the day I finally loss my faith in ETH. All this while I was thinking he is trying to get us to play Ajax way, but struggling to keep the pace with PL... but turns out he doesn't even intend to change the way we have been playing at all.

Still prefer to stick with him by end of season, but let's say if he gets the sack before Christmas, I won't complain.
 
I think we have better players here than he had at during his time at Ajax, so can’t he play the same so called ‘Ajax’ way? I also remember he was the overwhelmingly popular choice over Pochettino because of his ability to coach. So why has that perception change now because we are on a current bad run?
 
On a more serious note; I think one of the reasons Dutch managers sometimes (often times, whatever) fail abroad is exactly the opposite of what Ten Hag is saying here. We Dutch people usually think that we are the inventors and sole owners of the correct way of attacking football. It doesn't matter whether you have Franz Beckenbauer, Zico or Harry Maguire: thou shalt not ever play a long ball even if you concede 27 goals every game. There is only one way, and that is the Dutch way.

In reality, different leagues and different teams require different playstyles. Of course, with enough good investments you can build a team that suits your style (Like Pep at City or Klopp at 'pool), but for Ten Hag it would be a bit mad to try and play as he did at Ajax with the squad United has.

I'd say Ten Hag failed massively on the transfermarket (Antony wasn't even THAT good in the Dutch league, nor was Mount, though that's a bit unfair), but this particular quote saying he won't play the Ajax way, because he lacks the players to do so, isn't as damning as people make it out to be.
 
Knowing us, if we were set up to replicate Ajax, we probably would’ve ended up replicating their current season.
 
ToToMarshall said:
Sure, but you can't polish a turd. The bigger problem is that he seems to be replacing turds with more turds.

Think it's a mixture of him actually not being up to the job, and the job being made even harder by complete lack of any strategy or knowhow amongst the executives and directors. The club's broken and the manager isn't as good as we thought he was/hoped he would be. Both can be true at the same time.
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Many of our players may be shit relative to the standard of our great United players of the past. But they are still highly paid professional football players who should be capable of doing the basics. Brighton played some good stuff and easily best us with the likes of Welbeck and Lallana in the team. I refuse to believe we have players who are incapable of carrying out the same job as Brightons second string team.
 
There is nothing inherently wrong with a more direct playstyle or playing to the strength of the players already present. 4 out of our 6 best players were already here when Ten Hag arrived after all.

The part about United DNA is pretty awful though. I did not expect to hear that from Ten Hag.
 
Conor said:
I can almost guarantee that it is poor communication, there is no way he is trying to play like Stoke, he is just saying that he has to adapt to the players he has and the culture around the club. Not that it's particularly working, but these comments are definitely going to be blown out of proportion by the frothing at the mouth section of the forum.
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I do not consider myself part of the frothing at the mouth section. You can check my posting history. And it is not just about statements, it is about the statements confirming what we have been dreading - he has abandoned what we were admiring and he is attempting something he is not good at. As the bolded proves.
 
It was obvious that he gave up on his original idea based on his comments at the start of the season.

Our key players are Rashford and Bruno who play best when we play direct football. Then again, we aren't exactly accommodating these two. Rashford play best with a forward who will make space for him to cut inside.
And Bruno kept being shifted to the right.

I have no idea what he is trying to do.
 
Rozay said:
Adapt to which players? The 10 players that he has brought to the club himself? As for the ‘culture of the club’ that you also referenced - clearly something in that. Somewhere in there is a ‘United Way’ nonsense that seems to prohibit us from doing anything other than looking for a player who will ‘win the title for us’. Ever since Cantona ‘did it’.

We’re lightyears behind every top club and now even a fair few average clubs too.
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He has bought players that would definitely fit his Ajax play style, some of them duds, but he still has a lot of Utd players that don't fit at all, some of our biggest stars included. I think he has just realised that he is kind of fecked with the team he has, and is not going to ever be in a situation where he will have more than a starting 11 of players that could all play possession football, and so he's decided to go a different way.

In reality, how is he getting rid of Rashford and Fernandes? How does he get us to be a high press, possession based team with Rashford in the team? He's now in a situation where he basically has to replace Casemiro and Varane at the very minimum, when you're using up money on doing that sort of stuff then it's very hard to build out a full team of players that suit a style. He has of course bought badly as well, but every manager buys duds.

It's very clear to me that if we wanted the Ten Hag football we saw at Ajax, we need all youth teams being managed by coaches that know that football, we need a constant stream of young players that can play it, and a transfer committee centred around buying players that fit that ethos. I'm not sure we have any of that in any way at the moment, so I really don't see how we can succeed in doing it at this point.
 
We will never achieve anything of note playing moments/transition football. Him coming in and implementing a style to suit a group of underperforming players has been his undoing.

If results are poor but there's progress being made in terms of playstyle then I'd still be happy but the fact is at the minute, neither are happening. Anyone comparing his struggles to the same struggles Klopp and Arteta had early on are wrong as those two were trying to implement new styles completely unsuited to their squads.
 
Asking Rashford and Bruno to play anything other than direct counter punching football is impossible.

You might as well accept it at this stage :/
 
FortunaUtd said:
So this is where it all went wrong. He is not even attempting to do what we were banking our hopes on him for, and what he excelled at before, and apparently the DoF has been going along with that disappointing directive. What a letdown.

Sack him and sack Murtough, bring in a DoF and manager who agree on a dominant vision of football and are prepared to see it through.
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This
 
Moyes - "we aspire to be Manchester City"

Van Gaal - "my capitan shall always play"

Mourinho - "football heritage"

Solskjær "football is a simple game"

Ten Hag "it's impossible to play like Ajax"
 
I don't care about style, I want wins.

Klopp lost many finals then let Spurs have the ball and finally won. Fergie parked the bus numerous times and played on the counter when possible.

If LVG bored us to tears but won the league he'd be a hero. If Jose shit housed a CL he'd have a statue.

Winning football is what we need.
 
The guy literally admitted he won't play the football the club hired him for, so what's the purpose of keeping him in job ?

He's just another fraud.

Get rid.
 
KirkDuyt said:
but this particular quote saying he won't play the Ajax way, because he lacks the players to do so, isn't as damning as people make it out to be.
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It's damning because it was the very reason we all wanted him! Ole peaked with his reactive counter attacking football and there was no further progression under him. The next steps was to appoint a long term manager who played a modern style of possession based football that the rest of our rivals in football do. For him to come, falter, and then say “oh sorry guys I actually can’t do that here” is basically a slap in the face.
 
Why I am getting the Ole vibes again? Ole mentioned that he wanted to pro-active football and higher up the pitch but ended up getting Maguire and AWB for £120m in the same summer. And we’re hearing the same with ETH after the money invested into the squad….

We have got to fix our recruitment, it’s beyond a joke.
 
He is just saying what has been always fairly clear: His footballing vision is completely muddled between knowing what he would need in the long term, the pressures of getting results in the short term, and then dealing with the day-to-day challenges of managing the squad that is currently at the club.

United is going to be a poisoned chalice so long as every manager comes into the club thinking that they can't have a mediocre season without getting sacked while the footballing/recruitment side of the operation can't effectively establish a longer term footballing vision on recruitment that the manager must work within. All the incentives are set up for the manager to buy players who will help them keep their job a little longer and rally supporters to his side in the short term, rather than players that can be built around for 6-7 years. So the manager buys players that are very established but too old to be real building blocks (Casemiro, Eriksen) or that he already knows well and who therefore seem less risky to him (Antony, Malacia, Lisandro, Onana, Ambrabat) or that fit short term tactical requirements but not the style you need to eventually move toward (Lisandro, Casemiro).
 
el3mel said:
The guy literally admitted he won't play the football the club hired him for, so what's the purpose of keeping him in job ?

He's just another fraud.

Get rid.
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What makes you so sure that he was hired to play a certain way?

I doubt the people who made the decision give a single shit about the style of play.
 
Jim Beam said:
This
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I should clarify that "sack" is the wrong word. The club should plan for a next season with a new manager and hopefully changes will occur at board level until then. I do not think sacking Ten Hag today is necessary, but changing manager in summer at the latest.
 
duffer said:
What makes you so sure that he was hired to play a certain way?

I doubt the people who made the decision give a single shit about the style of play.
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You hire someone looking at the past experience, you know Ajax, Bayern etc.
 
Shocking comments really. Honestly reminds me of something Moyes or Ole would come out with. The sole reason he's here is because of how his Ajax team played. If that's not the aim, then I don't see what the point of him being here is.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
I don't care about style, I want wins.

Klopp lost many finals then let Spurs have the ball and finally won. Fergie parked the bus numerous times and played on the counter when possible.

If LVG bored us to tears but won the league he'd be a hero. If Jose shit housed a CL he'd have a statue.

Winning football is what we need.
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I think that has more to do with the fact that he played Spurs and not Bayern or Real Madrid.
 
he bought 7 starters, to be complemented by Shaw, Varane, Dalot, Bruno, Rashford .. We should be able to play whatever style he wants to impose.

This is a point where I, as a big admirer of ETH until now, have had enough.

If he's building a team to play such dull football, stop it asap.
 
Yeah he's lost me with these quotes. Why did he think most of us wanted him instead of Poch? That we liked his bald head? We wanted him to build a side that can play like his team used to play. If he's not even attempting to build a side like that, what is he even at United for? Guy's not even winning games playing this direct football he seems to think is in our DNA.

I'd say a bigger part of our DNA is taking our chances with our youth, by the way. Like the Busby Babes and the CO92. Which he has barely even attempted.
 
el3mel said:
The guy literally admitted he won't play the football the club hired him for, so what's the purpose of keeping him in job ?

He's just another fraud.

Get rid.
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Can we get the Sack or Keep thread reopened?
 
Seems to me he was told the likes of Rashford, Bruno and Shaw are untouchable.

He can't implement his way of play and he's not capable of setting up a dinosaur counter attacking team.
He's constantly compromising, trying to please the morons at the club and at the same time hoping to add some of his ideas and it's an impossible task.

Casemiro retiring, Rashford giving up and Bruno straight up sabotaging the team hasn't helped either.

Add to all that injuries to the whole back four and it's a perfect storm.

His biggest fault is Mount, a clearly bad idea. Antony, I won't put it on him, he looked a good player at Ajax and you can't always be certain if a transfer will work out. At least he's the basics of a team player.
Casemiro is obviously the morons' signing. A big name near retirement, can do a job and cost a lot. An Woodward special.
 
FrenchRed said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...NA-admits-hes-built-play-direct-football.html

If this is true, it’s shocking. Bought a stack of players at overpriced value to be more like Ajax and change the way we play. Now realises that this will never happen and claims he is trying to build a “direct” team.

This shows that ETH is out of his depth on so many levels for me, and should not be allowed to waste any more money. I’d prefer we ship him out asap and replace him with someone with a real vision for the team and that can actually coach that vision.

Quotes:

“‘We will never play the football we played at Ajax here,' he told ViaPlay after the defeat. 'I now have other players, that's not why I came here.'

'The player material you have determines how you will play. That's why we play here in a different way than I did at Ajax. That will have to be the case, because I can't play the same way here.

That is not in the DNA of Manchester United at all. The football at Ajax is very typical, here we will play much more directly. We also have the players for that, especially at the forefront.'”
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haha...jesus how do you guys not see wtf he is saying

he's not claimed to be building a direct style of team and whoever claims that has blinders on. he's clearly stated the players dictate the style you play and his players are more suited to direct style, counter attacking football which is exactly the type of players and football that Ole bought and brought in.

FFS...you can't play possession football with the likes of Maguire as your CB b/c he's shit on the ball and he's slow as fvck with his decision making. You can't play thru the thirds with Scott, Bruno as your CM's because Scott isn't good enough on the ball and Bruno gives the ball away too much with his risky passing. Rashford isn't a great possession based player and Martial can't hold up the fecking ball when he's not injured. Antony is a better possession based winger but he can't beat a guy off the dribble.

Mount signing this summer is the one real negative i'm going to put on Erik because he clearly could have made a big push for a truly possession based CM which is why this signing is so puzzling. Mount is not a CM and Erik won't play him at winger where he honestly would fit much better in the Ajax style of possession based football.
 
FortunaUtd said:
I should clarify that "sack" is the wrong word. The club should plan for a next season with a new manager and hopefully changes will occur at board level until then. I do not think sacking Ten Hag today is necessary, but changing manager in summer at the latest.
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Am also not sure that sacking atm will do any good escpecially because so much is in the air about the club and what's happening above him. People who should decide about the sack also needs to go, so am perfectly fine with your line of thinking, it's even logical. Unless we fully implode which might happen as well.

But personally I have lost faith in him and we (someone in the club) should start looking for alternatives.
 
I am pretty sure he tried his Ajax way in the very start, then changed his plans after that horrible start to last season. Disappointing.
 
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