If everyone in the league had been better than us, we'd be getting relegated this season. Food for thought.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Or if villa started off well… we can’t go of ifs and buts. Liverpool and Chelsea have been awful, we haven’t been as bad we’ve seen some glimpses of bad but we went on a decent run which put us in the position we’re in. Some people exaggerate, when we’re going on long unbeaten runs, ETH is the best thing that’s ever happened but when we play crap in a few games because we’ve had a busy fixture schedule then ETH needs to improve. This isn’t even ETH full team. I’m sure next season with a few more additions we’ll look a lot better and more consistent.
Dammit. I was all pleased about winning a trophy as well, only to find out it doesn't count. Thanks a lot!
Taking Sancho off and bringing in Weghorst was a mistake, but you can see the logic. Bring on someone who will give the effort defensively and take off someone who is notoriously bad at that (although he was doing okay yesterday).
Wan Bissaka looked cooked and wasn't defending well, so bringing on Malacia made sense. Bringing on Fred made sense because he offers us more effort and energy than Eriksen. The problem is that both of these players are inconsistent and yesterday was one of their worst days.
When AWB, Casemiro, Fred and Malacia are all having stinkers I think it's fair to say the players let him down rather than ETH making bonkers tactical mistakes.
Wan Bissaka looked cooked and wasn't defending well, so bringing on Malacia made sense. Bringing on Fred made sense because he offers us more effort and energy than Eriksen. The problem is that both of these players are inconsistent and yesterday was one of their worst days.
When AWB, Casemiro, Fred and Malacia are all having stinkers I think it's fair to say the players let him down rather than ETH making bonkers tactical mistakes.
Does the context of missing key players, having played more games and having just played 120 minutes in a cup semi count too?
He is very stubborn and not a fast learner, he keeps doing the same mistakes. That said, I think he’s doing very well (8/10) and if we do get CL (which I think we will), and he gets the financial backing, he’ll do even better.
Bald Genius got the subs wrong again - but he doesn't have excellent options at all
Garnacho has been our best sub this season by far, and we won a lot of points bringing him on. Big miss.
I knew exactly how Martial, Weggy and Fred were going to play when they came on. Shit
Garnacho has been our best sub this season by far, and we won a lot of points bringing him on. Big miss.
I knew exactly how Martial, Weggy and Fred were going to play when they came on. Shit
Terrible substitutions yesterday which basically killed the game for us. No idea what's his deal with Pellistri. I don't know how Weghorst and corpse of Martial were going to get us anywhere.
Also the fact that our players can't run past 60 minute mark anymore is largely on him as well. I know most won't admit it, but his squad management over the course of season has been horrible and it's something Ajax fans had warned us about as well. I pointed this out in January, and it is still true, playing all your best players in every single game is going to backfire spectacularly, and even more so in a season when most of them are also going to be involved in World Cup right in the middle of it. And before people point to our dreadful terrible squad that did not allow him to make even a few changes here & there, well he knew the quality of the squad very early on, if it was deemed to short to allow for any rotation then we should not have gone all in in all competitions but prioritize. I still refuse to believe that resting a few players against Omonia or Sheriff, or not playing our absolutely strongest team against Nottingham with a 3-0 lead from first leg would have caused us to fail in all those games and even if it did, I'd have preferred to be knocked out in some of these cups to running all our key players into the ground.
We will probably limp towards top 4 but the finish to this season has been discouraging for me. We basically had terrible start, very promising mid-season and now retracted to being either terrible or exhausted.
Of course he should not be sacked though, even if we fail to make top 4. It's a 6.5/10 season, will go down to 5/10 if we don't make CL, but he still has shown some qualities that give you hope that he can take us forward. But it's only fair to point out he's also shown very prominent issues that will absolutely need to be ironed out for him to succeed here.
Also the fact that our players can't run past 60 minute mark anymore is largely on him as well. I know most won't admit it, but his squad management over the course of season has been horrible and it's something Ajax fans had warned us about as well. I pointed this out in January, and it is still true, playing all your best players in every single game is going to backfire spectacularly, and even more so in a season when most of them are also going to be involved in World Cup right in the middle of it. And before people point to our dreadful terrible squad that did not allow him to make even a few changes here & there, well he knew the quality of the squad very early on, if it was deemed to short to allow for any rotation then we should not have gone all in in all competitions but prioritize. I still refuse to believe that resting a few players against Omonia or Sheriff, or not playing our absolutely strongest team against Nottingham with a 3-0 lead from first leg would have caused us to fail in all those games and even if it did, I'd have preferred to be knocked out in some of these cups to running all our key players into the ground.
We will probably limp towards top 4 but the finish to this season has been discouraging for me. We basically had terrible start, very promising mid-season and now retracted to being either terrible or exhausted.
Of course he should not be sacked though, even if we fail to make top 4. It's a 6.5/10 season, will go down to 5/10 if we don't make CL, but he still has shown some qualities that give you hope that he can take us forward. But it's only fair to point out he's also shown very prominent issues that will absolutely need to be ironed out for him to succeed here.
ETH hasn't been perfect, but our recent downturn looks like burnout to me, combined with a massive drop-off in quality outside of the first XI. Some of our players will be knocking on the door of 70 games this season including internationals, we've been hit with a rash of injuries and suspensions. We need to rotate but haven't been able to afford to as there are very few easy games in this league. As the fatigue has set in teams have seen that if they can keep at us for 90 minutes we're liable to ship a goal or two.
Whilst I'd hate to finish below Newcastle, our aim should be to tie-down 4th (3 wins in our 7 remaining games should do it) and then focus on preparing for the Cup Final. 4th and a Cup would be a good season compared to where we were last year, and 4th and two Cups would be a very good season.
Whilst I'd hate to finish below Newcastle, our aim should be to tie-down 4th (3 wins in our 7 remaining games should do it) and then focus on preparing for the Cup Final. 4th and a Cup would be a good season compared to where we were last year, and 4th and two Cups would be a very good season.
Hes gone long more often since the Sevilla game. Becuase hes shit with the ball at his feet.
It’s not complacency. We are incapable of handling a high press with consistency. Sometimes we’ll score a goal on the counter but this team is not passing through a press and controlling games like top teams do.
The horrible squad management thats taken us to two cup finals and almost a third, all while being a good few points clear of the top 4 chasers with a few games to go?
Whenever we lose the midfield battle, we crumble. Spurs established an overload in midfield in the second half and magically made us look like relegation fodder. It's disturbing. We need to sort it out or these last remaining games will be a disaster.
We’ve had possibly the most ridiculous schedule that any top club wise ever has due to the World Cup, being in every single cup competition, and that old one croaking it. It’s nuts. Of course we are fecked! Surely we have to give a bit of benefit of doubt here
I think we will get top four, and hopefully strengthen the squad in the summer and then I’m super excited for next season.
I think we will get top four, and hopefully strengthen the squad in the summer and then I’m super excited for next season.
Spurs were hardly hounding us yesterday. They upped the tempo a bit in the second half but that's half because we came out as laid back as humanly possible. We are more then capable of dealing with the Spurs threat / controlling that second half yesterday.
we were comfortable as can be in the final
You can only beat who’s there
It's easy to say but if he took the risk and rotated more during periods where we were still fighting for all trophies & 4th place, there would be no guarantee that you'd be satisfied either especially if we got knocked out early out of cup competitions. Our squad is not deep and the backups are not good enough to be competing on all fronts and yet this club is expected to do that every season. If the manager does just that with such a limited squad then we should be realistic and understanding if there are hiccups here and there, add to that is the fact it's his first ever season at the club. We need better players. It would only be a concern if we have a good depth and he's still stubborn. But that's not the case, we have maybe like 11-12 players that are good enough to play at a big club (good enough doesn't mean they're top quality).
Last edited:
Quite disingenuous to not quote the part where he fleshes out his arguments. There were at least a handful of games this season where we were all scratching our heads, wondering why we went full strength, and where we we should have been able to rotate and still win comfortably, with the Forest replay as the most puzzling example.
Ww have had very little luck this season. Long term injuries to a lot of key players. Martial. Erikson, Garnacho, Varane, Martinez…. Plus DVB and Casamiros 7 game ban. Ronaldo left half way through and we had no funds to buy a decent replacement in January.
The small squad has played games every 3 days for months. I think ETH has worked miracles with what he has But its not enough for some of our fickle glory hunting armchairs.
It took Sir Alex 4 years to win a trophy. With todays mentality he would have been sacked after two years. The fantastic era of trophy after trophy would not have happened if the disgruntled section of the fan base had gotten their way In 1989. Had this forum been around 86-89 it would have been in melt down trying to get Fergie out.
I fully back ETH. Hes done a brilliant job with what hes had at his disposal this season. Its a work in progress. Hopefully get the glazers out this years and new owners back him.
The small squad has played games every 3 days for months. I think ETH has worked miracles with what he has But its not enough for some of our fickle glory hunting armchairs.
It took Sir Alex 4 years to win a trophy. With todays mentality he would have been sacked after two years. The fantastic era of trophy after trophy would not have happened if the disgruntled section of the fan base had gotten their way In 1989. Had this forum been around 86-89 it would have been in melt down trying to get Fergie out.
I fully back ETH. Hes done a brilliant job with what hes had at his disposal this season. Its a work in progress. Hopefully get the glazers out this years and new owners back him.
Spurs were beyond average, they didn’t need to be special in that second half to get anything unfortunately.
Except no-one is calling for ETH to be sacked, just countering the narrative that he's worked miracles and that we are further ahead than we actually are.
None of which would have been in any way impacted by resting a few key players in the games I mentioned and a few others.
The guy is doing his best the way he sees things. It is so easy to be wise after the event.
We should finish 4th which gives us a CL position. And that should help with signing new players.
We should finish 4th which gives us a CL position. And that should help with signing new players.
Yeah. We would have still made it through the group even if we rested players against Omonia/Sheriff, we would have still made it to League Cup final even if we played our second string team against Nottingham. Those games were also right in the middle of hugely congested periods. Second leg against Nottingham was just 3 days before Palace and then we played Leeds twice within the next week. We played EL games 3 days before tough league games (except away game against Sheriff).
It's almost like you can't point out the obvious because ETH has somehow become a cult hero, though we'd seen that with previous managers and when things start going the wrong way the same people who know allow no criticism at all will move the opposite way (except for Ole, with him it was opposite and you could not say anything positive).
I have to really question of some of you are actually fans.
These players are clearly burnt out and their supporting cast are so bang average it's miracle we are where we are.
This manager is doing wonders especially with so many injuries to key players.
ETH won't be flawless but he's on track to achieve more than pep and klopp in their first seasons.
Go get some sleep, touch some grass and stop looking for any excuse drag the best thing that's happens to our club in a decade.
These players are clearly burnt out and their supporting cast are so bang average it's miracle we are where we are.
This manager is doing wonders especially with so many injuries to key players.
ETH won't be flawless but he's on track to achieve more than pep and klopp in their first seasons.
Go get some sleep, touch some grass and stop looking for any excuse drag the best thing that's happens to our club in a decade.
He forgot to mention the football giants Newcastle eliminated to reach the very same final. Because, had we lost the game at Wembley, he would've definitely been using the loss as a stick to beat ETH with.
Him rotating in those games would have had no impact on those competitions. We would have made it through the group as a second placed team even with high rotation, we would have still gone past Nottingham without our first team out there for the second leg. We would have probably disposed of all lower league teams in the cups without our best players too, we'd done that before.
I'd have been fine going out earlier in the cups BTW. Top priority for this season was top 4, second priority was to see signs of improvement throughout the season that would point to the team possibly being capable of challenging for serious trophies with some reinforcements. I'm still positive about top 4, the second part I'm unconvinced until certain things improve.
Bingo. He's done decent/good job. Miracles, no.
Also, the issues with him are exactly those that Ajax fans mentioned before he came here. How anyone can be completely fine with that and think of him as immune to criticism is baffling. We are not going anywhere until all those concerns are properly addressed.
Biggest worry. Conceding 7 at Liverpool should never, ever happen but in the same season he shipped 6 at the Etihad is nuts.
This.
We’ve had to sack our ’star striker’ for going rogue. We have another striker suspended and we have another striker who’s been injured for half the season… The last one can happen and it’s bad luck. The first two are extreme cases that a club very rarely encounters, and we’ve had all of them at the same time, so it’s ridiculously shit luck on the striker front.
And then we’ve got our ownership situation which means we can’t really buy anyone. I hope to god this is resolved by end of June. Getting the Glazers out of the club will be like winning the Premier League or Champions League.
AND we’ve been playing two games a week virtually most of the season, after a season where the World Cup was placed right in the middle of the season for the first time ever. Compare our schedule to Newcastle and we’re doing pretty well compared to their HUGE advantage of playing one game a week for 80% of the season.
So in my opinion, ETH has done a good job considering the above circumstances.
this ^^
All man utd managers are miracle workers who are more capable than Pep and Klopp, but without the same support
What was the alternative which was "clearly" the better option? Let's assume Antony needed to go off (as he rarely plays more than 70' anyway).
And do what exactly? We had no control over the game, leaky in midfield and weak on the wings. My understanding was that WW was supposed to play a bit deeper to help in midfield and Rashford/Martial could make runs from the wings. How is Elanga or Pellistri a better option?
Shit subs but we needed to make them, so who else should he have brought?
I don't know about the rotating part, we have had games where it looked like we should have won but we got complacent and got done. It's always like that with football, you can't be certain until things had happened. If Cups aren't important to you then fair play, that means I can't relate with how you see it since I really wanted us to win any trophy this season.
He did come across as a bit naive for going all out in 'lesser' games, but I think that was part of the parcel with new manager in a new league and should be understood, hence why I don't really care much about AJAX fans' opinions - different teams, different league, if they didn't have a good depth then it's them but we should be aiming higher than that. Maybe he could have rested a few more players but in my opinion the most realistic way to solve players fatigue is not by expecting him to turn into Sir Alex. The club needs to provide him with better options because it's so obvious how we are so reliant on a few players (Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen, Rashford) and the drop in quality is huge once it's their "backups" that play. Without them we don't resemble a good team and that's concerning. He doesn't fully trust his backup players, it happened with Ole as well.
8th if Ivan Toney didn't get himself into that betting scandal.
He was getting ready to play PEC Zwolle on the 30 April 2022.
I wouldn’t watch utd if we still played that football towards the end of Ole's rain and I've supported this team all my life.
Style of play is different from LVG, Jose and Ole - it actually remains of 2005 (with RVN) team style just not players to play it well. A bit of twist to it with the fullbacks not proving the width, but dropping narrow.
We need a CB (aggressive and quick), DM (same as CB) and CF (same positioning as RVN), maybe a CM
Top 4 is far more important than League Cup or FA Cup for me, as is progress in terms of general play.
There is no way Nottingham were knocking us out of League Cup after losing at home. There was no way we were getting knocked out of EL by resting players against Omonia/Sheriff, and even if we were, I'd have preferred that to clean up our calendar rather than running players into the ground.
Can you play a good football with Weghorst up front (and old Ronaldo before that) + Fred and/or McTominay in the middle? even on FIFA that looks hard. There's a reason why we play better whenever Martial is on a decent form and uninterrupted by injuries. It's only Martial by the way, the same player that struggled at Sevilla. Some of our players are mid to bottom table quality.
Think it's harsh to blame Ten Hag, he has to make subs he can't just play the same team for 90mins every game twice a week. Unfortunately the squad depth isn't good enough he just needs time to improve it