I do largely agree, but what I would say is that choosing ETH to be the one to change that (by keeping him despite everything going to shit) only works if they decide that his style of play is the same as what INEOS want going forward. Or at the very least can be a good bridging manager between the current and where we want to be. If not, we need to move on to the right type of manager ASAP, otherwise we just waste another season with a manager with an unsuitable style.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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He’ll probably have to change his style of football though depending on what style the owners choose. Also they’ll target players for a specific style where as normally we change managers who all play different styles and we let them sign whatever players they want so whenever we change manager the players can’t play a new style and then the cycle keeps continuing.
That’s a good point. But since INEOS haven’t announced anything, we’re all left in the dark. None of us have a clue what style they want to play, what they want to do with ETH. Who they want to sign. What coach they might want to bring in to replace the one they got rid of in McCarthy. They’ve literally announce absolutely nothing. They made us all dream when they first came in by saying things like their going to be proactive, they want the best in class in every department etc.
It is hard to grasp.
It seems like the logic is that we are tired of changing managers that does not perform that well.
Or, Fergie got the time needed to turn things around, so ergo, if given time, every failing manager will turn into a goatlevel manager.
Or the only way to improve the squad in the summer is to keep the manager. As if Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox was going to just play uno all summer if Erik left.
Its even harder to grasp people mentioning Ashworth when he isnt even part of the team yet.
Which might at this point be the bigger problem than the discussion about the manager himself.
No matter if we think EtH should stay or leave, I think almost all of us agree that whatever is happening right now doesn't appear to be decisive. No statement looking forward to the new season with EtH, no statement that he is sacked, no notable transfer activity. The glorious "structure" that most hoped would improve the club just doesn't really exist.
By now I believe INEOS are making a HUGE mistake by betting the club on people who can't officially work for them now in the most crucial time of the year to get proper foundations for next season. That situation has to be resolved very quickly and even then other clubs clearly have a head start in the transfer market this summer. There has to be a different solution than Ashworth. There has to be a different solution than Berrada. Yes, Ratcliffe and his people might consider those two to be best in class, but second best in class and actually be available at a sensible time would probably have been the better solution. As of know I expect next season to be a write-off and what's happening now about EtH is the first symptom of that.
The club has seen a lot of change since INEOS have come in. And it makes sense that things are being delayed given the delay with Ashworth who would have a big say in these matters if he were here. Refurbing United in the current state is no small task. A little patience is required.
Assuming management thinks he really has a good plan, I think he will be given more time into the new season. If he gets a minimum number of points on the board and starts the season like he ended it, he gets an extension. If not he gets the sack. We really can't bring in a manager without the structure being in place. Otherwise the choice of who the new manager is again back down to decisions by amateurs.
I disagree.The excuses trotted out by those who refuse to accept that he is a substandard manager are pathetic.The litany of excuses run the gamut from 'lengthy injury list ' to 'new style of play' to 'poor structure' and the latest I have seen is 'doesn't understand the currency'.
But his fan boys do not bother to explain why the likes of Newport,Coventry and even Sheffield gave him a hard time(I will not mention the thrashings by epl teams).They cannot explain the poor substitutions leading to loss of points in the dying minutes of games or even the buying of duds like Anthony.
All we hear is that he will do better next season.Will the new guys at INEOS handle substitutions?Will they intervene when he employs his suicide donut formation where the midfield is a yawning hole?What guarantees are there that there will be no injuries to Martinez and Shaw or even Bruno?As a well-paid professional why is Ten Hag unable to adapt when there are forced changes to the playing unit? These are matters that any manager worth his salt should be able to handle. If he is not sacked and he is getting thrashed again next season I am sure his support base is preparing another excuse-'taking time to adjust to the new structure'.
Surely this is a WUM post? Lack of transfer activity when window hasn't opened yet? You're way more involved than the man who just put in a billion pounds. Easy.
Well, the idea isn't to keep faith in a manager blindly.
It's to hire the right manager and have the ability to analyze his work and keep faith in him if he's in trouble.
We failed in hiring the right managers. That's where the problems started.
I'm not concerned about transfers yet, but can we stop repeating this "transfer window hasn't opened yet" BS every single year?
Transfer activity takes place year-round, and ramps up significantly the moment the season ends. A registration window has zero bearing on that.
Exactly.
The problem is SJR and INEOS knew this is the case with Ashworth and Berrada, which is why I keep saying, why sack and change manager now when the structure isnt even in place?
Why not get the structure sorted, find out what kind of players we can get, young players with potential, get a few in the door, gives Ten Hag something to work with.
While he has a chance to prove himself or he shows he can't hack it. In that time, we can would have sorted our structure in Berrada, Ashworth etc and they can formulate a long term plan. There is no point creating a long term plan with 1/2 the structure and in 2 weeks.
What else tells me there is no plan? Look at the managerial candidates we are linked with. Poch, Di Zerbi and Tuchel, all 3 play a different style.
If tactical flexibility is what we want, surely Tuchel is a better fit? The only sense I see in continuing this cycle, is if we genuinely think he is the one who can lead us into an eventual title challenge.
My issue with this strategy is that if we're struggling to find a suitable replacement now, wouldn't it be even harder in the middle of next season? It's not like having our structure in place will magically make more and better choices available.
It doesn’t bode well for ETH even if he does escape the sack. Clearly they are lot impressed with his performance or his plans going forward or there wouldn’t be this limbo. It’s clear they don’t have faith in him so they just need to bite the bullet and sack him this week, it can’t be allowed to drag on any longer.
So how many transfers have Liverpool, Arsenal, City and Chelsea completed?
ffs.... I'll stay in the ETHOUT camp for now, in the absence of anything compelling....
Yeah people have been using that excuse for a decade now. "Window isn't open" "Window JUST opened relax" "We are working on X deal we'll get to Y after"
And then we are stuck in middle of July trying to finally push through a signing before pre-season and then rushing a couple more.
How does this post in any way refute anything I said? As @Valencia Shin Crosses mentioned in his post, "window isn't open yet" is a decades-old Caf coping mechanism.
What is coping mechanism for some is an actual fact for others. I'd get it if our rivals went all guns blazing and wrapped everything up by June while we're still figuring out what to do with ETH. Not right now, when no one else has really done anything and clubs are still figuring things out.
Funny how quickly you went from "lack of transfer activity" to "transfers completed" when challenged
Not my point. I made it clear I'm not concerned about our transfers yet. My point is that "window isn't open" isn't a real argument, for the reasons I laid out.
Define what you expect as successful "transfer activity" in June first week, relative to other clubs? Links to players? We've been linked with a few - Branthwaite, Inacio, Neves, Olise, Chalobah. I'm not quite sure what you expect?Funny how quickly you went from "lack of transfer activity" to "transfers completed" when challenged
I love this tactic that fans use. Liverpool, Arsenal, City dont need squad overhauls.
Chelsea have completed 2, sacked their manager, hired a manager, almost signed Tosin, in talks with Ollise.
The other teams only need fine tuning, they need 1/2 players, whereas Manutd need like 6.
It's because we've all seen this story before. We are good with links, but when other clubs do links and talks with players they actually get the player. Pretty sure Chelsea have verbally agreed with Tosin, and Arsenal are in serious talks for Sesko. Our links are just scouts watching the games..
We have scouts that work? When was the last time a scout found a player for us to sign?
INEOS are still sorting out behind the scenes and appointing staff - do you really expect an expedited window this summer? We only have 1 hire in place currently. Give it time!!
apparently they do send in reports, but sometimes they don't get read or simply ignored.Yes...
Spurs already signed Werner on loan for another year.
Real Madrid signed Mbappe.
Just two examples at big clubs from my mind, I didn't care to look deeper. True, there isn't a lot happening in term of final deals, but this is the time when you really get into contact with player agents, when everybody is having some time to think about his career (those playing at the Euro not so much, but still most players), when you lay the ground work for the transfers of the summer.
Who is currently in office to do this, and who has time for it? Probably not those currently doing the "season review".
This is why I don't trust INEOS to get it right this summer.
Strange to see people talking like last season was ETH first season! Any body saying there is no style of football is an hypocrite. We all know he wants to play from the back and press in opponents half. He just does not have the players at the back to do it. Simple
People here really lack reading comprehension. Re-read that first half-sentence carefully.
I'm not concerned about transfers yet
Yep, INEOS cannot be trusted at the moment.
They will carry out a review, then I bet you they will all go on holiday.
Instead, a well run club who wants to show that its different from the old regime should:
1. Make a decision on the manage
2. Start on key deals, CB, CM, ST and have them in before pre season.
Instead what will we do? nothing, we will fly to America with Lindelof and Martinez as our CB pairing with Maguire, Kambwala as back ups. Then go into the season wondering why we leak goals, go into the market panic and sign Branthwaite for 80m and have him as backup to Licha.
.when you are moving from a counter attacking football to a possession style of play, then an overhaul is likely
Has he learnt from them? He utilised a playstyle and midfield setup right from preseason up until the last four games of the season that was obvious right from the beginning couldn't work. He was incredibly pig-headed and stubborn about refusing to change it, regularly saying we were playing well and doing what he wanted despite anyone with eyes being able to see that there were huge issues. Sure, he finally changed things in those last four games, but why did it take that long and what's to say that it wasn't just getting ready for the FA Cup final and he won't go straight back to the suicidal chaos-ball next season?
Ultimately, I do think he is a better manager than what he showed this year, but his mentality and stubborn refusal to change something that clearly wasn't working means I can't really trust him anymore. If he was so pig-headed about this, then I've got no reason to think he won't be just as pig-headed about other things (or the exact same thing) in the future.
I agree, he has been stubborn and deluded this seasons saying we play good football etc..
The same way Ten Hag is stubborn and hasn't learn, the fans dont learn either do they? We are an up and down club for 11 years, yet we want to see short term managers come in, get sacked. New manager, then call for his head...
I cant tell you that he will be playing fast free flowing football next season, but I can tell you we can sack him fine, we will be having the exact same conversation 2 years from now. "manager x" needs to be sacked because we finished 6th.
This decision is taking longer than the takeover now.
Surely it's not that complicated to find the replacement given that Tuchel and Poch are both available and willing.
The longer they delay this, the more incompetent they look.
Surely it's not that complicated to find the replacement given that Tuchel and Poch are both available and willing.
The longer they delay this, the more incompetent they look.
So your problem with him is that he is stubborn. I will take that. But he is a good coach, a winner and a disciplinarian. Now he have a technical director that is not Darren Fletcher, now he have people that knows football that can call him to order. I still don't think it's wise to bring in another manager now. A new manager will have so many battles to fight from day 1. Because like it or not, ETH has set a standard! A trophy per season
"ETH's failings are Darren Fletcher's fault" is a new and original argument, I'll give you that.
We have heard from some news feed that Tuchel or De Zerbi left their jobs because ineos has promised them the job. Ineos is currently feeling bad that they want to sack ETH but also don't want to go back on their gentleman's agreement with Tuchel/Zerbi.