Exactly. We should be 15th, narrowly escaping relegation with Everton and Brentford. The player quality has pushed us to 6th/7th.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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We've sold and bought many players over the last two seasons. It has sort of been a "reset" already. As much as you can expect it to happen at this level. There is absolutely zero guarantee with this "young core" approach. The real winning formula is a lot more complicated than that.
One in his entire career too. I agree that the other work is weighted less, because it's not a big league. But they aren't completely and utterly irrelevant.
Is this a genuine quote?
As opposed to when?
And it would be difficult to see us managing to get much fecking worse. But 2 years ago no one was expecting year 3 of Ten Hag's reign. To be hoping to maybe get into the top 4, but only if we spend another couple of hundred million.
He's done.
Last season wasn't exactly great either. It was alright for a first season but we fell off badly towards the end.
The Sevilla Europa League loss was a particularly bad one and the season was punctuated by thrashings against Brentford, City and Liverpool.
Huge leap from managing a team with by far the largest resources in the league (more than the 2nd and 3rd biggest clubs combined) that already had a great young team when he joined to managing in a top league without foundations laid by previous regime / the club.
And last season, while decent, was not really good enough to give him that much credit in the bank.
Chemical ten Hag.Is this a genuine quote?
He loves the word dynamic because in the context of how a football team plays football it’s a meaningless bullshit soundbite. He might as well call our set pieces synergistic and our defending integrative and diversely actualised.
I think it's more the complete and utter failure on the pitch that he's overseen that's left him open to media and fan scrutiny to be honest.
Cue posts about who you know rather than what you know
My Liverpool buddy says ETH starts next season, and the United faithful will be welcoming Southgate with open arms by December.
Which players?
Because there would be 0% chance of Alonso coming here and it would be a complete waste of time. He turned down Liverpool and Bayern, two clubs who he used to play for and who are both in a much stronger position for us, and it's extremely likely that the plan is to join Real in a year or two. It'd be utterly pointless to 'go all out' for him.
I don't understand this attitude to sit and wait for the perfect manager that won't be any risk. The perfect manager will have better options and won't look twice at us. We need to get our shit sorted to put ourselves in the frame for the absolute best managers, and while part of that is obviously the structure higher up, part of it is also getting things sorted on the field. Not to the extent that we're competing for the PL and CL, but our short-term (next two seasons) goal needs to be to establish ourselves as the 'best of the rest' behind the clubs who are competing for the PL and aiming for at least the round of 16 in the CL. Or at least looking like we'll reach that level in the third season. Yes of course the structure throughout the club and recruitment will have a significant impact on that, but the single biggest impact is made by the manager.
If ETH isn't capable of doing that then we need to move on. And based on everything we've seen this season since he's implemented the formation and playing style that he wants, and the fact that we've actually been getting worse at the time in the season that he is getting more time to train and dealing with less injuries, there is no reason whatsoever to think he's capable of doing it. Every other option we can bring in does carry some risk and there can be negatives put forward for any of them, but at this stage it's almost difficult to find somebody who would be more likely to fail than ETH.
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This isn't true. Even if it was, he has an option to extend written in.
At least if those things happen we can totally write off the club under Ineos nice and early and all pick some different sports to followMy Liverpool buddy says ETH starts next season, and the United faithful will be welcoming Southgate with open arms by December.
Last year was an overperformance. The squad was in complete free fall and tatters. Worse than I'd ever seen to be honest.
So should we not address the personnel issue that is clearly not up to the levels that top football demands first?
We still don’t have our best defence and we haven’t had a LB now for 70% of our season.
We have issues with Rashford who benefits massively from having an overlapping fullback (as do most wide forwards who want to cut inside).
We have issues with our defence and midfield gaps which having Shaw and Martinez (both better defenders and comfortable stepping into midfield) would help resolve.
Is Ten Hag head of recruitment too now and is responsible for deciding the fees we pay?
I’ve said many times now if he leaves I don’t care. I’ll back the next appointment made.
Ive criticised him plenty. I just dont moan incessantly about things that im not sure are his sole responsibility. And when they aren’t his sole responsibility I also acknowledge that context.
I know my position and I’m not happy with this season or 100% convinced on Ten Hag. I know that I enter every discussion in good faith and make an effort to respond, contextualise and clarify my opinion. It’s not a popular one.
People take the piss because they lack the ability to debate the points I make and so it’s easier to try and characterise context as me being Ten Hag, his dad, agent or whatever else.
I maintain you add a CDM and CB of the correct physical and technical levels, and keep the best players we have fit for more of the season like Arsenal and other have and you’d see a significant improvement.
What exactly is the tactical issue in your view. And how much of that is tactical and how much is down to player quality?
Where do you draw that distinction?
What football could we play right now that you believe is better and achievable?
Exactly my point. Ten Hag tries to instil discipline and it’s used against him. I believe Ten Hag has made the right decisions with Ronaldo, Sancho, Rashford and Garnacho. Do you n
Tuchel has the same issue or worse (again read up on his season) and nobody wants to mention it?
If we’re going to change managers then we also need to understand why and what the concerns may be. Because you’ll find the parallels in terms of criticism is very similar the difference being Bayern have a better squad, are better set up regardless of manager to dominate their league and still he’s had two seasons where he’s struggled.
Not sure what's being debated now, so il go back to my original point. He's obviously not a bad manager just because he had one bad season.
The club have the option not Ten Hag. Going into next season with his contract running down and ending in June, every month that ticks by without the option being activated lets everyone know the club have no faith in him. That increases media speculation/pressure and what does that also do to his authority with the players?
Nobody thinks like this. If the results are good, the pressure lift and he gets a new contract/the option is triggered. If the results are bad, he's let go cheaply and we get someone else. It's not bloody difficult.
I admire @BenitoSTARR's persistent optimism and positivity. I really do. Its even making me think to give Erik another chance going into next season.
I think I'll hire you as my next defence lawyer.
I think I'll hire you as my next defence lawyer.
He’s quite clearly shown to be an inadequate coach for the level we aspire to be at. Or even the level we’re at.
Yeah lets believe some dumb tweet from a Dutch Ten Hag supporter.
The seasons gone, but why not get new guy in now so he can make some assessments about who we have and what we might need ahead of the market opening, instead of someone having to come in cold in the closed season
So you don't think the media would have a field day with speculation next season if Ten Hag's contract is running down and we're doing badly?
Mentioned it in an earlier response to Rista. Its the vast majority of the current first team squad.
Our goals per game in 2024:
44 goals in 19 so 2.3 goals per game.
Our goals per game from season start to Jan 2024:
37 goals in 28 games 1.32 goals per game.
We’re objectively better in attack. This with a 19 year old winger, 21 year old striker and our best attacker out of form.
Bayern and PSG?
See bold bits as to why I’m happy enough to be a bit more patient.
We can't keep saying it's just one season when it's clearly been going downhill longer than that.
If I'm understanding correctly, in order to give Ten Hag the best chance of succeeding, we must completely gut the team he's built, including getting rid of most of the players he specifically chose to improve his team. Only once we've undone all the work Ten Hag has done, will Ten Hag be able to get the best out if the team
Which is all that matters, it's really that simple. I don't care if he's a "bad" manager whatever that means in absolute terms.
It was neither here nor there with the context of this season. We did nothing to build upon it and even the Champions League qualification was pointless after finishing bottom of a weak group this season.
There was a bit of goodwill but all of that has eroded and more now.
If the manager was getting the best out of what we had available then yes focus on players first. But he isn't, not anywhere close. Even when he's had his 'best' available we're terrible. So the manager has to go too.
2nd bolded point, again just repeating the obvious, you're not making some groundbreaking prediction there.
The right physical and technical players is something Ten Hag should have identified when spending £400m. He didn't, he was clueless about the demands of the PL.
Because we're on the edge of FFP rules and it isn't being helped by our league posistion.
I think INEOS would love to keep EtH to avoid paying off his entire staff and rebuilding every aspect of the club. However, he has neither implemented a consistent style or play, or got us winning matches.
If they are to fire him it'll only be when Champions League qualification is mathematically impossible. So they can save 25% on his pay off.
If the club gives him another chance then so will I.
If they sack him I will also back it.
If they sack him I will also back it.
Your Liverpool buddy should spend more time worrying about their own Dutch baldy because i doubt it will be plain sailingMy Liverpool buddy says ETH starts next season, and the United faithful will be welcoming Southgate with open arms by December.
He's already made his mind up to stay and with Madrid and Liverpool, both close to his heart apparently, waiting in the wings, it doesn't look like he'll be at United anytime soon. Besides, I wasn't making a case for Tommy at United just that his season hasn't been as big a disaster as it may appear.
The media will have a field day whether he's got 8 months or 8 years on his deal. What is your point?
It was the kind of season where if you manage to build on it, you will look back at it as the first sign of things to come with the team clearly showing more organization and quality than it had previous year. With how the next season has panned out though, it renders that season pretty much meaningless as it was clearly not a sign of anything.
Are both much easier to win the league than any PL, La Liga or Serie A team, which is why you don’t see people giving Poch that much credit for winning the league with PSG. Most seasons Europe is the real test for both.