Pretty much the entire team, I would say Dalot/Mazraoui (over Cash), Shaw (over Digne), De Ligt (over Konsa), Martinez (over Torres), Kobbie (over Tielmans), Ugarte (over Onana), Bruno (over Rogers) and Amad/Rashford/Garnacho (over McGinn).I am not sure our squad is good enough for top 4.
City, liverpool and arsenal squads are better by far (and with better managers too).
How many united players will get in Aston villa first x11? Lisandro and maybe Bruno?
How many in Newcastles? The same 2+ De Ligt?
Ten Hag is not only very poor in tactics, but his eye for talent is embarrassing.
600m in 2 years and we are stuck without a capable striker, pensioner in the middle and a clown goalkeeper. Depressing
I would argue that sacking a manager without having suitable replacements potentially lined up is idiotic, that’s the kind of shambolic way the clubs has been run the past decade.The latest argument for keeping ETH is "you need to find a manager who will have United in title races and the CL's business-end. It is 'knee-jerk' to sack without securing a suitable replacement in this regard."
Despite the fact ETH clearly can't do that but unless you find a manager who 100% will do that, then there's no point sacking Ten Hag since his failings are just ignored.
I don't think there's enough words in the dictionary to define just how idiotic that type of reasoning is.
And the insane part is that I've seen a few posters essentially say that in different ways.
I don't want to throw another season down the drain, but I even more so don't want to throw multiple seasons down the drain, which is why on balance I think we'd be better off waiting until summer.
As I've said repeatedly though, I'm open to be convinced. Who would you replace Ten Hag with immediately, and why would that be better than waiting until the summer and getting a top candidate in?
I would argue that sacking a manager without having suitable replacements potentially lined up is idiotic, that’s the kind of shambolic way the clubs has been run the past decade.
For me Ten Hag is finally being properly supported this summer and he has 2-3 move to show improvements on the pitch, or he’s got to go. However, the club also needs to line up suitable candidates to replace him, whether that’s mid term or for the start of next season.
I can’t recall any poster arguing that there aren’t any potential suitable managers for the club, just that there aren’t many suitable managers who are currently available (i.e., out of work). But football doesn’t work like, if required we’ll poach someone.I never said you should sack him without a replacement.
The point was that some people don't think he should be sacked since a definitive replacement that will not fail doesn't exist. That point is even more idiotic.
The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.
I'll give him until the next international break.He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.
No he doesn't. They've been here since January and tried to replace him in the summer. That's what your 'new regime' think of him.He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.
If he's going to be sacked in a few months anyway it's best just to sack him now. The season will be gone by the time they do it though and we'll be hoping for a top 8 finish.With so many saying they think he's gone by christmas, you'd think there would be someone who could come to the conclusion that it's best to do it now.
To save the season etc.
Why does he 'deserve' it?He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.
I actually think finishing 3rd in his first full season was too soon and set unrealistic expectations. It wasa false position aided by several teams being total shit.
People don't like the comparison to Arteta, but he finished 8th, 8th, and 5th in his first 3 seasons then 2nd twice. Remains to be seen if he can get over the line this season.
That kind of trajectory would have set a different point of reference for what could be considered improvement year on
Of course you do the research in all of these decisions, but you don’t know the outcome before you leap. It’s life. Sometimes you get it right, sometimes wrong, but doing nothing to wait for something is death.If you need to build such a silly strawman, you don't see.As for Ruud being better, you can't prove it as that's impossible, but you should have some reason to think so. Otherwise it's baseless.
With regard your examples, in every single case there's easily attainable information that can inform the decision. Will I like this vacation spot? Surely you'd check out the local amenities and attractions to see if they line up with your interests, what local dining is available, is the climate to your liking, etc. Choosing to go into something like that completely blind isn't necessary, the same is true of appointing a new manager.
I've banged the Ten Hag drum before, I've admitted now I'm open to seeing him replaced. Your attempt to boil my position down to simply the opposite of yours speaks to either an inability or refusal to see beyond black and white over this topic. I'll restate my actual position, better to debate that than any strawmen:
He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.
He won't last October.Absolutely not, he was lucky to have lasted the summer and if anything that fact that it’s a new season and the owners would look stupid is the only reason he hasn’t been sacked after these 3 results.
He will be sacked by Christmas, I think we have all seen enough to know this is not going to improve.
I never said you should sack him without a replacement.
To win either of those competitions you generally have to be a team that's hard to beat. Right now United aren't a hard team to beat. So we will definitely have to become a team that is much harder to beat to even compete for those competitions never mind win them.
The latest argument for keeping ETH is "you need to find a manager who will have United in title races and the CL's business-end. It is 'knee-jerk' to sack without securing a suitable replacement in this regard."
Despite the fact ETH clearly can't do that but unless you find a manager who 100% will do that, then there's no point sacking Ten Hag since his failings are just ignored.
I don't think there's enough words in the dictionary to define just how idiotic that type of reasoning is.
And the insane part is that I've seen a few posters essentially say that in different ways.
You're just a WUMHello Eddy, you may quote me personally. Don't be shy.
These posters are correct. As bad as EtH probably is, it can and likely will be made worse with a poor choice in succession.
The fact we are talking up Unai Emery, Kieran McKenna or
The more vehement sections of 'EtH out' rarely mention a suitable replacement, and, when they do, are too easily scrutinised.
You need to mention a replacement in all conversations in which you propose sacking him, explaining why it will restore the club to hitherto glory.
It's okay being wrong. We all want the same thing.
I agree, Stevoc.
It would not surprise me to see United win nothing and finish outside top four this season. But it would not surprise me to see another 22-23 season, either. In terms of progression both are insufficient.
My league prediction was between third and fourteenth. Nothing I have seen has dissuaded me (We had a similar start in 22-23 and finished third) but EtH's tactical intransigence, though brave, is worrisome.
Can't see a new boss doing much better. Some of the names mentioned are the same level.
Of all names, only Thomas Tuchel can be considered an improvement. Nagelsmann possibly, but he's in the same boat a pre-United EtH was. The rest are hopeful punts.
On here, TT will be lauded and subsequently denounced whenever we lose a few, his CL triumph seen as a 'fluke' and his tactics 'not United'.
This will intensify whenever the media sources now excoriating ten Hag focus on Tuchel, though I wonder if EtH will be re-evaluated after one unsatisfactory season or two.
I'd say the former.
Scabby 0-1 win against Southampton and it'll be 40% keepDown to 84% now is impressive. Another two weeks to go on international break to slide it down.
It’s not idiotic. We aren’t challenging City this season, 100% guaranteed. Why replace ETH with a target who will just repeat the same cycle down the line? At least ETH has won cups, the best thing we can win during this period of City dominance. I want ETH out but the board needs to be patient in finding the right man, otherwise the best we can hope for is the same CL qualification cycle.The latest argument for keeping ETH is "you need to find a manager who will have United in title races and the CL's business-end. It is 'knee-jerk' to sack without securing a suitable replacement in this regard."
Despite the fact ETH clearly can't do that but unless you find a manager who 100% will do that, then there's no point sacking Ten Hag since his failings are just ignored.
I don't think there's enough words in the dictionary to define just how idiotic that type of reasoning is.
And the insane part is that I've seen a few posters essentially say that in different ways.
The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.
The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.
Yes. Unfortunately, we all keep being drawn in haha.I’ve already made the argument that I think Ten Hag is so poor that there is quite a good number of managers who would be an improvement. I’ve already listed some of those along with references to why their records are better, and why they’d likely get us playing better football and performing better as a team. The Hilton ignores all that whilst asking for names, despite this thread being full of names and full of arguments. It’s dishonest and it’s disingenuous but ultimately, it’s nothing more than a distraction tactic.
He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.
If we were Everton or West Ham or Newcastle or, hell, even the Spurs, maybe you have an argument. But we’re not. We are one of a handful of clubs that should be challenging every year for major trophies.The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.
At 4:05 he says they lost their nerve, at 4:56 he pivots to a completely different logic, jumping on Neville saying they were looking to prove his point. It doesn’t, not even remotely.
That’s not backing anything up fine, it’s classic Carragher and people swallowing that need to be a bit smarter
I actually think Charrager is the one being obtuse. When you run a football club you can't just sack for the sake of sacking and it needs to be more measured. They didn't really find anyone who they felt would be a worthwhile improvement and saw better value in backing the manager.Neville misses his point.
Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.
Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.
Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points
They have just had their first proper window and by their own account have admitted they could not find a better manager. They're not about to just sack him after three games, this is not realistic and you know it.No he doesn't. They've been here since January and tried to replace him in the summer. That's what your 'new regime' think of him.
Also, tell me you don't understand what the new structure does without actually saying it.
He has delivered two trophies which remain the barometer of success no matter what stat bros will tell you. No one will remember XG in 10 years. It was commonly agreed upon that last season we were marred by unprecedented injuries and the squad was still in dire need of investment. He now has had investment and has been given a lot of players. He deserves more than a measly three games to see what he can put together.Why does he 'deserve' it?
We got rid of far better managers who were far more deserving of working under a better structure.
If things continue on a downward spiral he will obviously be sacked at some point and it would be right to do so, but not now, not after three games. We haven't even integrated the new signings yet. Not to mention 2 of the first 3 games were very difficult games, Brighton will take points from a lot of big teams this season and we have struggled their for years now, Liverpool is always a 50/50 and we won the other one.Absolutely not, he was lucky to have lasted the summer and if anything that fact that it’s a new season and the owners would look stupid is the only reason he hasn’t been sacked after these 3 results.
He will be sacked by Christmas, I think we have all seen enough to know this is not going to improve.
So basically, he's the first of potentially many who will put the boot in on version 2.0?Ye but we’ve slightly changed systems and tactics this year. Slots the first one to call us out on it. We press a lot higher with the front 2 this year.
Neville misses his point.
Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.
Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.
Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points
The irony of those two Cup trophies is that they are working as Harakiri on Manchester United as a football club. Since he took over we've fallen from being one of the 4 best teams in the country to maybe even outside the top 10 best, despite getting both the time and financial backing along the way. I get physically sick from watching us play football these days. It's simply been a disasterclass and I'd gladly give both those cup trophies away for us to play better football. Those cups doesn't even remotely paper the cracks in his failure at managing this football club the last 18 months. Every day he's still at this club, we're getting further away from where we want to be. We're watching ETH making our club implode. I just can't grasp how he's still in this job.The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.
Neville misses his point.
Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.
Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.
Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points
So basically, he's the first of potentially many who will put the boot in on version 2.0?
We've really become a laughing stock for opposing fans and managers.
Carragher suggests he has 'seen this at Liverpool' then evokes Klopp replacing Rodgers.Neville misses his point.
Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.
Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.
Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points
What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
