Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The latest argument for keeping ETH is "you need to find a manager who will have United in title races and the CL's business-end. It is 'knee-jerk' to sack without securing a suitable replacement in this regard."

Despite the fact ETH clearly can't do that but unless you find a manager who 100% will do that, then there's no point sacking Ten Hag since his failings are just ignored.

I don't think there's enough words in the dictionary to define just how idiotic that type of reasoning is.

And the insane part is that I've seen a few posters essentially say that in different ways.

 

[Rams]

The latest argument for keeping ETH is "you need to find a manager who will have United in title races and the CL's business-end. It is 'knee-jerk' to sack without securing a suitable replacement in this regard."

Despite the fact ETH clearly can't do that but unless you find a manager who 100% will do that, then there's no point sacking Ten Hag since his failings are just ignored.

I don't think there's enough words in the dictionary to define just how idiotic that type of reasoning is.

And the insane part is that I've seen a few posters essentially say that in different ways.

I would argue that sacking a manager without having suitable replacements potentially lined up is idiotic, that’s the kind of shambolic way the clubs has been run the past decade.
For me Ten Hag is finally being properly supported this summer and he has 2-3 move to show improvements on the pitch, or he’s got to go. However, the club also needs to line up suitable candidates to replace him, whether that’s mid term or for the start of next season.

 

[stevoc]

I don't want to throw another season down the drain, but I even more so don't want to throw multiple seasons down the drain, which is why on balance I think we'd be better off waiting until summer.

As I've said repeatedly though, I'm open to be convinced. Who would you replace Ten Hag with immediately, and why would that be better than waiting until the summer and getting a top candidate in?

We are just out of a summer break, if it was November-January I could see the logic in waiting but it's early september.

Who is a top candidate?

You can never guarantee how any manager will do until they're actually in the post, if we hired a new manager like Tuchel or even Klopp with the idea they'll make us title contenders despite their records it'd still be a big gamble. But if we hired a manager in the hope we wouldn't be as awful as we've been the last 18 months then I'd say that's a much safer bet. I get your argument in how an Interim manager can do more harm than good. But leaving a struggling manager in post for longer than you should can cause the same amount of damage and arguably more. I think both Jose and Ole were given too long and thinigs got toxic towards the end and affected the entire season.

Now I don't think we will sack Ten Hag before November at the earliest, hopefully we don't at all if he manages to turn this around. But one of the main problem that has affected United's fortunes negatively post SAF is waiting too long to make a change when things aren't working. And ending up wiritng off seasons because of it.

​

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I would argue that sacking a manager without having suitable replacements potentially lined up is idiotic, that’s the kind of shambolic way the clubs has been run the past decade.
For me Ten Hag is finally being properly supported this summer and he has 2-3 move to show improvements on the pitch, or he’s got to go. However, the club also needs to line up suitable candidates to replace him, whether that’s mid term or for the start of next season.

I never said you should sack him without a replacement.

The point was that some people don't think he should be sacked since a definitive replacement that will not fail doesn't exist. That point is even more idiotic.

 

[DWelbz19]

Down to 84% now is impressive. Another two weeks to go on international break to slide it down.

 

[Rams]

I never said you should sack him without a replacement.

The point was that some people don't think he should be sacked since a definitive replacement that will not fail doesn't exist. That point is even more idiotic.

I can’t recall any poster arguing that there aren’t any potential suitable managers for the club, just that there aren’t many suitable managers who are currently available (i.e., out of work). But football doesn’t work like, if required we’ll poach someone.

 

[SuperiorXI]

He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.

 

[stevoc]

The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.

To win either of those competitions you generally have to be a team that's hard to beat. Right now United aren't a hard team to beat. So we will definitely have to become a team that is much harder to beat to even compete for those competitions never mind win them.

 

[Highfather_24]

He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.

I'll give him until the next international break.

Then we should ring up Tuchel and tell him to cut his sabbatical short, break time is over.

 

[Grylte]

With so many saying they think he's gone by christmas, you'd think there would be someone who could come to the conclusion that it's best to do it now.
To save the season etc.

 

[crossy1686]

He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.

No he doesn't. They've been here since January and tried to replace him in the summer. That's what your 'new regime' think of him.

Also, tell me you don't understand what the new structure does without actually saying it.

 

[crossy1686]

With so many saying they think he's gone by christmas, you'd think there would be someone who could come to the conclusion that it's best to do it now.
To save the season etc.

If he's going to be sacked in a few months anyway it's best just to sack him now. The season will be gone by the time they do it though and we'll be hoping for a top 8 finish.

 

[Leftback99]

He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.

Why does he 'deserve' it?

We got rid of far better managers who were far more deserving of working under a better structure.

 

[DSG]

I actually think finishing 3rd in his first full season was too soon and set unrealistic expectations. It wasa false position aided by several teams being total shit.

People don't like the comparison to Arteta, but he finished 8th, 8th, and 5th in his first 3 seasons then 2nd twice. Remains to be seen if he can get over the line this season.

That kind of trajectory would have set a different point of reference for what could be considered improvement year on

If you need to build such a silly strawman, you don't see.As for Ruud being better, you can't prove it as that's impossible, but you should have some reason to think so. Otherwise it's baseless.

With regard your examples, in every single case there's easily attainable information that can inform the decision. Will I like this vacation spot? Surely you'd check out the local amenities and attractions to see if they line up with your interests, what local dining is available, is the climate to your liking, etc. Choosing to go into something like that completely blind isn't necessary, the same is true of appointing a new manager.

I've banged the Ten Hag drum before, I've admitted now I'm open to seeing him replaced. Your attempt to boil my position down to simply the opposite of yours speaks to either an inability or refusal to see beyond black and white over this topic. I'll restate my actual position, better to debate that than any strawmen:

Of course you do the research in all of these decisions, but you don’t know the outcome before you leap. It’s life. Sometimes you get it right, sometimes wrong, but doing nothing to wait for something is death.

 

[Woodzy]

He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.

Absolutely not, he was lucky to have lasted the summer and if anything that fact that it’s a new season and the owners would look stupid is the only reason he hasn’t been sacked after these 3 results.

He will be sacked by Christmas, I think we have all seen enough to know this is not going to improve.

 

[RedBanker]

Absolutely not, he was lucky to have lasted the summer and if anything that fact that it’s a new season and the owners would look stupid is the only reason he hasn’t been sacked after these 3 results.

He will be sacked by Christmas, I think we have all seen enough to know this is not going to improve.

He won't last October.

 

[doubleohseven]

I never said you should sack him without a replacement.

The more vehement sections of 'EtH out' rarely mention a suitable replacement, and, when they do, are too easily scrutinised.

You need to mention a replacement in all conversations in which you propose sacking him, explaining why it will restore the club to hitherto glory.

It's okay being wrong. We all want the same thing.

To win either of those competitions you generally have to be a team that's hard to beat. Right now United aren't a hard team to beat. So we will definitely have to become a team that is much harder to beat to even compete for those competitions never mind win them.

I agree, Stevoc.

It would not surprise me to see United win nothing and finish outside top four this season. But it would not surprise me to see another 22-23 season, either. In terms of progression both are insufficient.

My league prediction was between third and fourteenth. Nothing I have seen has dissuaded me (We had a similar start in 22-23 and finished third) but EtH's tactical intransigence, though brave, is worrisome.

Can't see a new boss doing much better. Some of the names mentioned are the same level.

Of all names, only Thomas Tuchel can be considered an improvement. Nagelsmann possibly, but he's in the same boat a pre-United EtH was. The rest are hopeful punts.

On here, TT will be lauded and subsequently denounced whenever we lose a few, his CL triumph seen as a 'fluke' and his tactics 'not United'.

This will intensify whenever the media sources now excoriating ten Hag focus on Tuchel, though I wonder if EtH will be re-evaluated after one unsatisfactory season or two.

I'd say the former.

 

[RedRover]

The latest argument for keeping ETH is "you need to find a manager who will have United in title races and the CL's business-end. It is 'knee-jerk' to sack without securing a suitable replacement in this regard."

Despite the fact ETH clearly can't do that but unless you find a manager who 100% will do that, then there's no point sacking Ten Hag since his failings are just ignored.

I don't think there's enough words in the dictionary to define just how idiotic that type of reasoning is.

And the insane part is that I've seen a few posters essentially say that in different ways.

It also sounds like accepting he's not good enough.

 

[Leftback99]

Hello Eddy, you may quote me personally. Don't be shy.

These posters are correct. As bad as EtH probably is, it can and likely will be made worse with a poor choice in succession.

The fact we are talking up Unai Emery, Kieran McKenna or


The more vehement sections of 'EtH out' rarely mention a suitable replacement, and, when they do, are too easily scrutinised.

You need to mention a replacement in all conversations in which you propose sacking him, explaining why it will restore the club to hitherto glory.

It's okay being wrong. We all want the same thing.



I agree, Stevoc.

It would not surprise me to see United win nothing and finish outside top four this season. But it would not surprise me to see another 22-23 season, either. In terms of progression both are insufficient.

My league prediction was between third and fourteenth. Nothing I have seen has dissuaded me (We had a similar start in 22-23 and finished third) but EtH's tactical intransigence, though brave, is worrisome.

Can't see a new boss doing much better. Some of the names mentioned are the same level.

Of all names, only Thomas Tuchel can be considered an improvement. Nagelsmann possibly, but he's in the same boat a pre-United EtH was. The rest are hopeful punts.

On here, TT will be lauded and subsequently denounced whenever we lose a few, his CL triumph seen as a 'fluke' and his tactics 'not United'.

This will intensify whenever the media sources now excoriating ten Hag focus on Tuchel, though I wonder if EtH will be re-evaluated after one unsatisfactory season or two.

I'd say the former.

You're just a WUM

 

[CM]

Down to 84% now is impressive. Another two weeks to go on international break to slide it down.

Scabby 0-1 win against Southampton and it'll be 40% keep

 

[Offside]

The latest argument for keeping ETH is "you need to find a manager who will have United in title races and the CL's business-end. It is 'knee-jerk' to sack without securing a suitable replacement in this regard."

Despite the fact ETH clearly can't do that but unless you find a manager who 100% will do that, then there's no point sacking Ten Hag since his failings are just ignored.

I don't think there's enough words in the dictionary to define just how idiotic that type of reasoning is.

And the insane part is that I've seen a few posters essentially say that in different ways.

It’s not idiotic. We aren’t challenging City this season, 100% guaranteed. Why replace ETH with a target who will just repeat the same cycle down the line? At least ETH has won cups, the best thing we can win during this period of City dominance. I want ETH out but the board needs to be patient in finding the right man, otherwise the best we can hope for is the same CL qualification cycle.

 

[Zumbi]

The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.

Being a domestic cup team is not good enough for Man Utd. Ten Hag has been an abject failure so far in the two most important competitions, and I believe other managers would do better than he has in those competitions. It’s not about being harder to beat. It’s about being a better footballing side. I think other managers would get us playing better football, and would be more likely to make us competitive in the PL and CL.

 

[Theo88]

The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.

We won against wigan, nott forrest and newport to reach the semis in fa cup

We won against Burnley, Charlton and Nott Forest in the league cup the year before.


Arguably we were playing at our level.

Saying we are the most successful club leaves a sour taste given where we finished our campaign. If there's no significant improvement with Ugarte in the following 4-5 games cant see how this reality can go on.

 

[DSG]

I’ve already made the argument that I think Ten Hag is so poor that there is quite a good number of managers who would be an improvement. I’ve already listed some of those along with references to why their records are better, and why they’d likely get us playing better football and performing better as a team. The Hilton ignores all that whilst asking for names, despite this thread being full of names and full of arguments. It’s dishonest and it’s disingenuous but ultimately, it’s nothing more than a distraction tactic.

Yes. Unfortunately, we all keep being drawn in haha.

 

[Cloud7]

He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.

To be clear, we finished last season in 8th place with a negative goal difference. Read that again. There are no such things as mitigating factors to try to excuse that.

He deserves nothing.

 

[DSG]

The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.

If we were Everton or West Ham or Newcastle or, hell, even the Spurs, maybe you have an argument. But we’re not. We are one of a handful of clubs that should be challenging every year for major trophies.

A Carabao Cup and an FA cup are not impressive for a club of our stature. Does it not insult, even desecrate, the work of SAF by accepting this as a new, lower standard? He would never accept this, and neither should we.

 

[golden_blunder]

At 4:05 he says they lost their nerve, at 4:56 he pivots to a completely different logic, jumping on Neville saying they were looking to prove his point. It doesn’t, not even remotely.

That’s not backing anything up fine, it’s classic Carragher and people swallowing that need to be a bit smarter

Neville misses his point.

Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.

Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.

Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points

 

[VP89]

Neville misses his point.

Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.

Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.

Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points

I actually think Charrager is the one being obtuse. When you run a football club you can't just sack for the sake of sacking and it needs to be more measured. They didn't really find anyone who they felt would be a worthwhile improvement and saw better value in backing the manager.

Nevilles point if I'm not mistaken is that decision would need conviction now by giving him time, until Christmas or so rather than just the first few games of the season.

Nevilles point is not and was never "ten hag is the right man for these guys". It was more "the right man doesn't look like he's in the open market so they've decided to roll with what they have first".

 

[SuperiorXI]

No he doesn't. They've been here since January and tried to replace him in the summer. That's what your 'new regime' think of him.

Also, tell me you don't understand what the new structure does without actually saying it.

They have just had their first proper window and by their own account have admitted they could not find a better manager. They're not about to just sack him after three games, this is not realistic and you know it.

Why does he 'deserve' it?

We got rid of far better managers who were far more deserving of working under a better structure.

He has delivered two trophies which remain the barometer of success no matter what stat bros will tell you. No one will remember XG in 10 years. It was commonly agreed upon that last season we were marred by unprecedented injuries and the squad was still in dire need of investment. He now has had investment and has been given a lot of players. He deserves more than a measly three games to see what he can put together.

Absolutely not, he was lucky to have lasted the summer and if anything that fact that it’s a new season and the owners would look stupid is the only reason he hasn’t been sacked after these 3 results.

He will be sacked by Christmas, I think we have all seen enough to know this is not going to improve.

If things continue on a downward spiral he will obviously be sacked at some point and it would be right to do so, but not now, not after three games. We haven't even integrated the new signings yet. Not to mention 2 of the first 3 games were very difficult games, Brighton will take points from a lot of big teams this season and we have struggled their for years now, Liverpool is always a 50/50 and we won the other one.

Overall I think a lot of the negativity and wanting him sacked is an emotional reaction to the poor start. It's not logical to bin him off after three games. Ineos won't and shouldn't do that, they will wait and see how it goes.

 

[Fortitude]

Ye but we’ve slightly changed systems and tactics this year. Slots the first one to call us out on it. We press a lot higher with the front 2 this year.

So basically, he's the first of potentially many who will put the boot in on version 2.0?

We've really become a laughing stock for opposing fans and managers.

 

[JPRouve]

Neville misses his point.

Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.

Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.

Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points

I think that they both have a point.

I made a similar point to the one Neville makes, there was a case to keep ETH if for some reason they weren't sold on anyone else. And Carragher also has a point because when you reach a stage where you are actively interviewing prospective managers then two things are true, you have no faith in your current manager and you actually identified alternatives that suits you on paper.

The issue is then about things that no one outside of the club and the candidates will know. What introduced doubts about the candidates and are these things reasonable?

 

[troylocker]

The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.

The irony of those two Cup trophies is that they are working as Harakiri on Manchester United as a football club. Since he took over we've fallen from being one of the 4 best teams in the country to maybe even outside the top 10 best, despite getting both the time and financial backing along the way. I get physically sick from watching us play football these days. It's simply been a disasterclass and I'd gladly give both those cup trophies away for us to play better football. Those cups doesn't even remotely paper the cracks in his failure at managing this football club the last 18 months. Every day he's still at this club, we're getting further away from where we want to be. We're watching ETH making our club implode. I just can't grasp how he's still in this job.

Being harder to beat is a good start and one of many things that needs to improve.

 

[RedSky]

Neville misses his point.

Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.

Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.

Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points

Surely we're past the point of being fussy though? It feels like we're sticking by him out of blind hope at this stage as all results for the past 18 months point to another mediocre league season. We're sleep walking our way to another shite season.

Honestly, I think the majority of the Managers in the PL would be able to match a 50% win rate from 77 games. I think people put too much emphasis on the difficulty of managing United. Hiring someone that's actually capable would be a good start and if they show themselves not to be capable get rid ruthlessly.

This notion that we have to find the next Sir Alex is frustrating. If it happens, it'll happen naturally, I.E The Manager we employ is successful and with success brings longevity. Until then, we need to employ Managers that play modern enjoyable football. If results don't meet our aspirations then we sack and try again. We certainly don't continue betting on a dead fish.

I know some will say that ETH has been successful. Domestic cups are a bonus reward, they shouldn't be the only shining beacon in a shit storm of a season. We are not a cup only team. The league should always be out aspirations and sacrificing league position to attempt to win a trophy is to me counter productive. Get us challenging for the title then we can talk domestic cups.

 

[Highfather_24]

What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.

 

[JPRouve]

So basically, he's the first of potentially many who will put the boot in on version 2.0?

We've really become a laughing stock for opposing fans and managers.

It's not even version 2.0, we aren't pressing higher and we are as bad at it as we were last season. Last season the pressing line was at the edge of the opposing box.

 

[RedSky]

Not directing that at you btw GB as I know you're highly critical of ETH. Just expanding on what you posted.

 

[doubleohseven]

Neville misses his point.

Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.

Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.

Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points

Carragher suggests he has 'seen this at Liverpool' then evokes Klopp replacing Rodgers.

Of course, there is no Klopp on offer to us now.

Carragher does better in the argument but evades key talking points, is disingenuous regarding Liverpool and, crucially, cannot name a successor.

All too typical.

 

[RedSky]

What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.

To be fair, I was pushing for ETH. Theres no harm in being excited for a Manager that did brilliantly (which he did) for another club.

But football isn't played on paper and sometimes things don't work out. Transfers don't, Managers don't. No harm in admitting when you're wrong.

 

[JPRouve]

What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.

Which makes sense. He looked like a very promising candidate. The issue is that people don't accept this reality, nearly all managers that are given a chance to manage a bigger club were doing a good to very good job in their previous club but nearly none of them will succeed at the top. That's why it makes no sense to be stubborn and refuse to accept that ETH was a great candidate in 2022 and he proved to not be good enough.

 

[Zed 101]

I actually think Charrager is the one being obtuse. When you run a football club you can't just sack for the sake of sacking and it needs to be more measured. They didn't really find anyone who they felt would be a worthwhile improvement and saw better value in backing the manager.

Nevilles point if I'm not mistaken is that decision would need conviction now by giving him time, until Christmas or so rather than just the first few games of the season.

Nevilles point is not and was never "ten hag is the right man for these guys". It was more "the right man doesn't look like he's in the open market so they've decided to roll with what they have first".

I think actually the point is INEOS only go looking if they don't think ETH is the man for the job, the fact that they didn't manage to find a replacement that fit their profile doesn't alter that.

We know that INEOS spoke to at least McKenna and Tuchel, we do not know why they were not progressed, it may be nothing to do with the footballing side.

The fact that INEOS went looking is the be all and end all in this, it doesn't mean that they think ETH is right for the job in any way shape or form, keeping him was a means to an end.

You can pretty much guarantee 2 things:

• One reason that RVN was brought in is to potentially act as caretaker
• ETH would be gone tomorrow if the right profile manager became available

In no way shape or form do INEOS' actions mean they have any confidence in ETH