Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag


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So why don’t they ask Arteta same questions if it is his coachning that have contributed to Arsenal winning pretty much nothing with him as manager?
They can bring up anything against any manager if they want. Did any journalist ask Tottenham manager if he is fault for their lost game today?

Because there is higher expectations at United.

Spurs have spent nowhere neat the money and Arsenal have made huge strides and been very close to winning 2 titles. The 89 points they took last year would have won many league titles. Two years of Ten Hag and we are averaging 67.5 points a season.
 
So why don’t they ask Arteta same questions if it is his coachning that have contributed to Arsenal winning pretty much nothing with him as manager?
They can bring up anything against any manager if they want. Did any journalist ask Tottenham manager if he is fault for their lost game today?
What you are saying is irrelevant. ETH was asked why we have been seeing the same mistakes for two years now, not why he lost last night. It was a totally justified question that we are all asking, and should be answered. And that Arteta example you brought up is a bit daft if you ask me.
 
Other than a midfielder that we’re not sure he wanted, who were we missing to make it a 1st choice team? I can’t believe it reading these excuses again.

Aside from Ugarte, we'd have Ramus at number 9, and Luke Shaw at LB. Potentially Lenny Yoro too. Having an actual centre forwards change the balance of the team markedly.

I wanted him gone before the cup final last year, but we've backed him this far, I think we need to give him another 6 weeks at this point.
 
I understand you support ETH, but come on... :lol:

He is a Liverpool fan who is choosing to play a long game of WUMing on Redcafe. @Danny_ used to post openly as a LFC fan and then when Moyes took over decided to start pretending to be a United fan, with his only posts being in LVG/Moyes/Mourinho/Ole and now Ten Hag threads, telling everyone to be patient and not be knee-jerk etc. It's quite bizarre behavior and the sad part is he must be in his 30s by now considering how long he has been registered here.
 
The mental gymnastics people will go through to make themselves believe ETH isn't absolute garbage at his job is beyond me
That’s exactly what it is. Such delusion borne out of hope. Wank position to be in as fans.
 
Yeah he's the manager and team selection and the set up is on him. Do you think he's the one training the team every day? I don't think Onana is a problem like you seem to. I disagree that he was backed to the hilt by the previous regime, just because we spent lots of money doesnt mean he was backed. De Jong is a good example, clearly EtH really wanted him, the club failed in their attempt, then we signed a completely different style of midfielder in Casemrio, how does that make sense? I agree that he's not particularly charismatic and he makes some odd comments for sure. I don't think I said he's the right man for the job, I'm just willing to give it time before calling for him to be sacked.
Exactly. Truly backing the manager would involve kidnapping the player who clearly has no interest in signing for us and coercing him to do so.
 
He is a Liverpool fan who is choosing to play a long game of WUMing on Redcafe. @Danny_ used to post openly as a LFC fan and then when Moyes took over decided to start pretending to be a United fan, with his only posts being in LVG/Moyes/Mourinho/Ole and now Ten Hag threads, telling everyone to be patient and not be knee-jerk etc. It's quite bizarre behavior and the sad part is he must be in his 30s by now considering how long he has been registered here.
Should be put under his username so we don't have to answer posts thinking he is a United supporter. (Mods?)
 
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Alright, now that people have got the anger out of their systems, just want to make a few points. 1) All the realistic alternatives out there to ETH are cr@p. 2) We are 3 games into the new season. Last season was bad but he had terrible injuries. 3) I don't think any manager could do much better with this set of players. Too many of them need to go but United can't sell them because nobody else is willing to pay the crazy wages for them. That's down to the recruitment at the club and we already know that this is done nowadays by a transfer committee. It's that which needs to be looked at. How many managers have been sacked and what has changed? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result doesn't tend to work out well. Yes, ETH has a veto on players (probably) but he is not responsible for the recruitment.

People need to get out of their minds that there has to be a "better option on paper" alternative out there before you replace a manager.

It is about being the right fit for a particular team, or maybe for this league. Ten Hag has shown over the last season and now into this, that he cant get a tune out of this team. Even when we win, it is rarely convincing. Maybe his way of playing isn't suited to the Premier League.

What are you going to do? Wait for someone to come along that has a better resume? No, you just find someone who may be a better fit.
 
It's what our fans do.

With Jose, it was also two trophies, and with Ole it was "2nd place and one penalty kick away from winning the EL". It's all well and good to praise the good that managers do, but it can't be used as a constant excuse to ignore the negatives.

The most lenient fanbase I've ever seen from a top tier sports club.

Forget only football. I've never seen a fanbase that just accepts mediocrity like we do. @Skills has a point at times. It seeps into the club.
 
Not sure what ETH is trying to do/play here. At Ajax he always played with a double pivot in the beginning at least. Schone/De Jong was the pairing that got them to the CL semis.

And yet somehow he decided to walk away from that and to make matters worse, he plays Case as a single pivot even though he doesn't have the legs nor the passing range to do so. Very weird set up really.

I wonder if he is trying to accommodate Bruno? But if that is the case, we should move to a 4-4-2 diamond and have Ugarte as our base, Mainoo and Mount as our 8s and Bruno as our No. 10. Have Rashford/Hojlund/Garnacho/Zirkzee as our 2 CFs.
 
You might be right, you have a source?

I am right. He said it in an interview with RAC1 (radio channel) and later other Spanish news outlets like AS and Gerard Romero confirmed it too, back then as well as now. You don't have to search hard to find all of this. It is pretty widely reported.

I agree on Casemiro being a shit substitute for him by the way, but I think he's gotten enough of "his own guys" to say he's been backed pretty heavily too.
 
There isn’t much nuance left in this argument, that’s the frustrating thing. We will all debate it and drag it out, but there is nothing left.

It is just a waiting game now. He isn’t a good coach and he has proven that as decisively as you can at a big club.
 
He’s shown no semblance of a plan for 18 months now. We routinely get outplayed by teams not just lower down the PL but in the league cup, FA cup and European games even if we do scrape the results.

He has talked ad nauseam about individual errors or players not following the plan. Well whatever the plan is either these players can’t execute it or it’s a bad plan. When you keep making ‘individual errors’ at the rate we do then it starts to indicate a pattern.

Whatever this system is trying to be it puts too much emphasis on individuals. The best teams score goals through the sheer quantity of chances they create. The best defences limit shots on goal. We create little and allow loads against. We are constantly asking our forwards to take the one or two chances they manage to create in a game which makes finishing even more pressurised than it already is while asking defenders and the goalkeeper to defend broken plays often man to man or even outnumbered.

Across football it’s interesting because tactics that go against the status quo have been making some waves. Whether that’s aspects of Xabi Alonso, Thiago Motta, Henrik Rydstrom or Fernando Diniz’s ideas. What Ten Hag is doing is definitely very different to almost anyone else out there but it just doesn’t seem to be something that will work even with patience.
 
Not sure what ETH is trying to do/play here. At Ajax he always played with a double pivot in the beginning at least. Schone/De Jong was the pairing that got them to the CL semis.

And yet somehow he decided to walk away from that and to make matters worse, he plays Case as a single pivot even though he doesn't have the legs nor the passing range to do so. Very weird set up really.

I wonder if he is trying to accommodate Bruno? But if that is the case, we should move to a 4-4-2 diamond and have Ugarte as our base, Mainoo and Mount as our 8s and Bruno as our No. 10. Have Rashford/Hojlund/Garnacho/Zirkzee as our 2 CFs.
People always go one about this, he was however knocked out by Pochettino with Spurs in that famous semi, with all his favourite players.
 
At best, he was very reluctantly “backed” by the club. The club talking to other prospective managers because they felt the need to assess their options in case they did decide sack him, is not a particularly strong vote of confidence and doesn’t mean he magically starts on a clean slate.

And what the team does on the pitch is on Ten Hag. That’s his job and that’s how it works. And when we keep seeing the same problems again and again and again, irrespective of the personnel, then it’s abundantly clear there is a problem with Ten Hag. His set up and tactics have not show the requisite improvement in any area of the pitch. His job is to make the whole better than the sum of its parts, and he seems to do the opposite.
Not a magically clean slate, as I said before obviously you can't totally ignore the previous two seasons. I just don't think it does much good to go into the season thinking the manager is a dead man walking.

I agree that the buck stops with EtH and he's the one who will get the blame at the end of the day. It's just a little silly to say everything is his fault like that other poster was saying.
 
He is a Liverpool fan who is choosing to play a long game of WUMing on Redcafe. @Danny_ used to post openly as a LFC fan and then when Moyes took over decided to start pretending to be a United fan, with his only posts being in LVG/Moyes/Mourinho/Ole and now Ten Hag threads, telling everyone to be patient and not be knee-jerk etc. It's quite bizarre behavior and the sad part is he must be in his 30s by now considering how long he has been registered here.
You’re absolutely right, I just checked his old posts. Thanks!
 
Three strikes and you’re out. That’s 3 hammerings from our biggest rivals in two years.
He has to go.
Even if we have to let Ruud take over until Christmas and look for the best candidate then for January.
I don’t see Ugarte making a huge difference while we’re in possession.

I mean Casemiro was a massive reason we kept losing the ball. If Ugarte could even just tidily maintain possession it would help. Probably not enough but that performance today from Casemiro should be a career ending one. It had shades of Neville years back.
 
There was a moment in the 1st half when Dalot made a run towards the center and near Liverpool's box.

A few seconds later, we lost the ball and the entire left flank was essentially vacant because of Dalot's run.

And this is a run Dalot's routinely made before so it's instructional.

I'm not sure there's another manager on the planet who'd instruct a full-back to make runs into central channels like that towards the opposing box.
 
Don’t think ETH will be here in December but I also don’t think it’s time for panic.

With the slew of changes we’ve had in backroom staff and players, some pain is necessary for future dividends to take root. This squad is still finding itself and hopefully this will be accelerated once we have someone new at the helm. The pain of this defeat feels necessary because it further solidifies our case for a new manager - even if it was blatantly clear for many before.
 
Not a magically clean slate, as I said before obviously you can't totally ignore the previous two seasons. I just don't think it does much good to go into the season thinking the manager is a dead man walking.

I agree that the buck stops with EtH and he's the one who will get the blame at the end of the day. It's just a little silly to say everything is his fault like that other poster was saying.
He was via Lucas' only world class game in his career. It wasn't like Poch took him to the cleaners. Felt more like Poch was extremely lucky to win that.
 
Nobody is suggesting that though, we're asking for more depth of thought than just "sack ETH". What happens next? If we've got a good replacement lined up then I'm on board, but if there aren't any suggestions beyond "give it Ruudy 'till the end of the season" then it's just change for the sake of change.

Deciding to do something different because what you’ve been doing for a while isn’t working is not “change for the sake of change”. If Ineos replaced Ten Hag with Ruud it’d be because they think he might do better. Some would disagree with that choice of course, but the only way to find out would be to do it.

No one knows if any replacement will be “good”. So it simply comes down to whether they want to continue with the same or try something new, whatever that new is.
 
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It was clear during Fulham game that team is totally unorganized and playing same crap football like last season. Only thing we were better than last season was that we didn't give them 20+ shots, but 10. Then we got destroyed by Brighton and we became their traditional prey. Today another liverpool battering on OT, so after 3 games we have 3 points with uglyass football and crap "tactics" and EtH started to talk delusional and annoying things to the press.
What's worse we got him another 5 players who could become (or already are) deadwood like Sancho so new manager can't get rid of them easily. And I really don't trust EtH signings, and no one can say that those Netherland players are exclusively his choice.
 
Yeah he's the manager and team selection and the set up is on him. Do you think he's the one training the team every day? I don't think Onana is a problem like you seem to. I disagree that he was backed to the hilt by the previous regime, just because we spent lots of money doesnt mean he was backed. De Jong is a good example, clearly EtH really wanted him, the club failed in their attempt, then we signed a completely different style of midfielder in Casemrio, how does that make sense? I agree that he's not particularly charismatic and he makes some odd comments for sure. I don't think I said he's the right man for the job, I'm just willing to give it time before calling for him to be sacked.
We will have to agree to disagree
 
He is a Liverpool fan who is choosing to play a long game of WUMing on Redcafe. @Danny_ used to post openly as a LFC fan and then when Moyes took over decided to start pretending to be a United fan, with his only posts being in LVG/Moyes/Mourinho/Ole and now Ten Hag threads, telling everyone to be patient and not be knee-jerk etc. It's quite bizarre behavior and the sad part is he must be in his 30s by now considering how long he has been registered here.
Well that makes more sense.
 
I mean Casemiro was a massive reason we kept losing the ball. If Ugarte could even just tidily maintain possession it would help. Probably not enough but that performance today from Casemiro should be a career ending one. It had shades of Neville years back.
Yeah, genuinely shocking. Now ten Hag’s set up doesn’t help, but if you’re Casemiro in the build up and the fullbacks go way up the pitch, the last thing you do is give it away cheaply, especially against Liverpool.
There was a replay from behind Casemiro of what he could see and it made that first time pass before their first goal even more mind boggling. He tried to thread it through the eye of a needle between three scouse attackers. Absolute suicide ball.
Our team is littered with bad decision makers. The final 3rd is the worst, but it’s everywhere. And you’d have to place some amount of blame on the manager for that.

Yes, Ugarte seems to keep it a lot more simple. But we need a balance of that and being able to open teams up too. I hope he has a big impact though.
 
It was clear during Fulham game that team is totally unorganized and playing same crap football like last season. Only thing we were better than last season was that we didn't give them 20+ shots, but 10. Then we got destroyed by Brighton and we became their traditional prey. Today another liverpool battering on OT, so after 3 games we have 3 points with uglyass football and crap "tactics" and EtH started to talk delusional and annoying things to the press.
What's worse we got him another 5 players who could become (or already are) deadwood like Sancho so new manager can't get rid of them easily. And I really don't trust EtH signings, and no one can say that those Netherland players are exclusively his choice.
Complete and utter nonsensical hyperbole. They didn't destroy us. We gifted them their 2 goals.

We can call out poor performances without resorting to nonsense like that.
 
I am right. He said it in an interview with RAC1 (radio channel) and later other Spanish news outlets like AS and Gerard Romero confirmed it too, back then as well as now. You don't have to search hard to find all of this. It is pretty widely reported.

I agree on Casemiro being a shit substitute for him by the way, but I think he's gotten enough of "his own guys" to say he's been backed pretty heavily too.
OK fair enough. I can't find any direct quotes from Frenkie himself, just reports from sources and one quote from his dad about the weather. It doesn't really matter anyways.
 
Complete and utter nonsensical hyperbole. They didn't destroy us. We gifted them their 2 goals.

We can call out poor performances without resorting to nonsense like that.
Mate they were shouting Oles as they attempted to walk it In the net for the 5th time.


We were cometley and utterly outclassed and embarrassed.
 
Reasons for why we are still so shite:

  • Not enough time
  • Wasn't backed in the transfer market
  • Not ETH's team
  • Massive injuries
  • Too many deadwood impacting morale
  • Piss-poor tactics that got found out
  • Unable to score to save our live
 
I’m old enough to remember when he came out after the Fulham game and said something like ‘forget about last season, these back 4 are a proper unit’
 
Whilst i am far from happy with ETH, his tactics were all wrong today. We should have played compact and hit them on the break. We were far to open thinking we could go toe to toe.
However I can’t possibly be ETH out 3 games in. It feels far to knee jerk.
I will give him 2 months to turn it around, last chance. Improve or gone by November
This is my feeling too, he has 6 more PL games, 1 Carabo cup and 3 Europa league games. I have a feeling that if he doesn’t have 14/15 points in the EPL, qualified into Carrabo cup 4th round and at least 5 points in Europa league, he’s gone!

He’s basically now going to be living month to month as he’s started yet another PL season very poorly with 2 losses from 3 matches.
 
Alright, now that people have got the anger out of their systems, just want to make a few points. 1) All the realistic alternatives out there to ETH are cr@p. 2) We are 3 games into the new season. Last season was bad but he had terrible injuries. 3) I don't think any manager could do much better with this set of players. Too many of them need to go but United can't sell them because nobody else is willing to pay the crazy wages for them. That's down to the recruitment at the club and we already know that this is done nowadays by a transfer committee. It's that which needs to be looked at. How many managers have been sacked and what has changed? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result doesn't tend to work out well. Yes, ETH has a veto on players (probably) but he is not responsible for the recruitment.
This you?
Wow, you have to wonder why a lot of our fans think that Arsenal supporters are alright...it's a cup competition. These things happen. I can get over it. Rafa's track record is about what Wengers was in his first decade in charge if you take into account his two titles for Valencia in Spain, maybe more impressive actually. I hope we stick with him.

As for those players, Hyppia, Benayoun, Kuyt and even Alonso (at the moment) are not first string.
 
The mental gymnastics people will go through to make themselves believe ETH isn't absolute garbage at his job is beyond me

That’s exactly what it is. Such delusion borne out of hope. Wank position to be in as fans.
Are you guys purposefully ignoring the rest of my point or did you just miss it? What's delusional about giving a manager a chance under a new structure, with new coaches, and new players while also keeping in mind that the past seasons happened but under different circumstances?
 
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