Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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Sarni said:
I actually think we will do well this year and finish 5th - 6th, which will earn him a 2-3 year extension. The signs so far this year indicate that we are capable of getting to 5th with a bit of luck.
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Finishing 5th or 6th at a club like this shouldnt be seen as doing well and deserving of an extension at a club like ours it should be seen as a sackable offence, esepecially for a manager who has spent 650m+ bringing in his own players to build his squad
 
Technically, ETH hasn't even managed us yet, first game is tomorrow night, as we couldn't judge him before that.
 
Shark said:
Technically, ETH hasn't even managed us yet, first game is tomorrow night, as we couldn't judge him before that.
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But he won't truly manage the team tomorrow as well. Don't know yet what would be the reason why it doesn't count, but I am sure that someone will find something.
 
Shark said:
Technically, ETH hasn't even managed us yet, first game is tomorrow night, as we couldn't judge him before that.
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But then he hasn’t won anything with us and we all know he’s won two cups. It’s complicated.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Finishing 5th or 6th at a club like this shouldnt be seen as doing well and deserving of an extension at a club like ours it should be seen as a sackable offence, esepecially for a manager who has spent 650m+ bringing in his own players to build his squad
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I know it’s not but the bar and expectations are so low that it would be seen as success. He’s actually positioned himself quite nicely in that regard, ie we were so horrible last year that it lowered expectations.
 
Sarni said:
If there's any club that does not have anything remotely resembling 'footballing structure' it's Chelsea.
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Yes I should have said they have a good squad instead. They started performing before Maresca came in.

It is not comparable to coming into MU two years ago.
 
NLunited said:
Yes I should have said they have a good squad instead. They started performing before Maresca came in.

It is not comparable to coming into MU two years ago.
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Absolutely. It was a squad cleverly built over many years for a specific style of football and definitely not a mishmash signed under multiple managers. Poor ETH. They will write books about how he was the first manager to experience an unbelievably unique set of circumstances.
 
erikcred said:
Have you not been reading the posts here? That's literally what quite a few are saying.
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It’s bonkers. This is the third season, but the first season that we almost have a complete squad (I’m looking at you, left back position).

I would never say it is the first or second season. Last year was a bit of a write off due to injuries but hey, we won a cup anyways.
 
erikcred said:
Absolutely. It was a squad cleverly built over many years for a specific style of football and definitely not a mishmash signed under multiple managers. Poor ETH. They will write books about how he was the first manager to experience an unbelievably unique set of circumstances.
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Haha. I think I could assemble a squad out of 40+ players. Still, well done Poch and PizzaPep for getting them to perform.
 
Redfrog said:
You’ll just make all sort of excuses, right ?
Most ridiculous thing I have heard in this forum.
In 2022, they gave him what he begged for, Antony for 90 fecking millions. He pushed for the overpriced sh*t players he had.
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But that's not 'backing' though, that's more like indulging, like giving a child whatever they want. For all we know, Arteta could've wanted to spend 45m on Emre Can, but the board said no, we think Partey is a better fit. That's what a proper DoF should be doing. Maybe Ten Hag told Murtough we should only go until a certain amount, but they didn't listen.

We don't know.

But what we do know, is that things are a lot better after Ineos took over, and started putting footballing people into the structure. People are just quoting my post on its own, but the context was a direct comparison with arteta who didn't come into such a chaotic environment set up for failure. Arteta has about a season and a half advantage over him (because it takes time for Ineos to actually put that structure in place), so we can properly judge him next Christmas. If he still hasn't gotten us playing fluid attacking football, then maybe it's time we start looking elsewhere.
 
mu4c_20le said:
But that's not 'backing' though, that's more like indulging, like giving a child whatever they want. For all we know, Arteta could've wanted to spend 45m on Emre Can, but the board said no, we think Partey is a better fit. That's what a proper DoF should be doing. Maybe Ten Hag told Murtough we should only go until a certain amount, but they didn't listen.

We don't know.

But what we do know, is that things are a lot better after Ineos took over, and started putting footballing people into the structure. People are just quoting my post on its own, but the context was a direct comparison with arteta who didn't come into such a chaotic environment set up for failure. Arteta has about a season and a half advantage over him (because it takes time for Ineos to actually put that structure in place), so we can properly judge him next Christmas. If he still hasn't gotten us playing fluid attacking football, then maybe it's time we start looking elsewhere.
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100%. Spot on.
 
mu4c_20le said:
But that's not 'backing' though, that's more like indulging, like giving a child whatever they want. For all we know, Arteta could've wanted to spend 45m on Emre Can, but the board said no, we think Partey is a better fit. That's what a proper DoF should be doing. Maybe Ten Hag told Murtough we should only go until a certain amount, but they didn't listen.

We don't know.

But what we do know, is that things are a lot better after Ineos took over, and started putting footballing people into the structure. People are just quoting my post on its own, but the context was a direct comparison with arteta who didn't come into such a chaotic environment set up for failure. Arteta has about a season and a half advantage over him (because it takes time for Ineos to actually put that structure in place), so we can properly judge him next Christmas. If he still hasn't gotten us playing fluid attacking football, then maybe it's time we start looking elsewhere.
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ETH doesn't need a great football structure just to get some sort of tactical message across - which he has completely failed at so far.

Also, surely it will depend, if we're 14th this Christmas (entirely possible) you'd be happy to stick with him, based on what happened last season too?

The lengths people will go to try and excuse this garbage... absolute madness.
 
UnsungHero said:
ETH doesn't need a great football structure just to get some sort of tactical message across - which he has completely failed at so far.

Also, surely it will depend, if we're 14th this Christmas (entirely possible) you'd be happy to stick with him, based on what happened last season too?

The lengths people will go to try and excuse this garbage... absolute madness.
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I'm really not defending or excusing him, I just think that if people want to praise Arsenal and Arteta for their work, then they cannot also want Ten Hag out in the same sentence without at least giving him equal opportunity. Arteta also had to play pragmatic football in the beginning to win the cup before he got the right players for his own style. Now, it's true that ETH may never reach his levels at all, and some may not wish to wait or take that chance and replace him asap. That's fair. There was a time when I wanted to do that as well, but there aren't really any stand out candidates right now. I like the Brighton manager and Mckenna, but they are still very young and may not be ready yet.
 
Robbie Boy said:
We're in a scenario whereby there's some rabid posters who will never take to him, no matter what he does. These are the posters who actually try to dismiss the fact that he's won two trophies, made it to 3 finals, got 3rd place in his first season and has the second highest points in the league out of all our post-Fergie managers. There's actually posters who will claim he's "worse than Moyes". When you have an agenda on the internet, you gotta stand by it at all costs.

However, while I can acknowledge that he has done some good, there's also been a-lot of bad. Last season was an absolute shambles barring an excellent FA Cup win. The problem is that we were so bad last season, that slight improvements won't be hard to find. The question is whether you think these improvements will be enough for us to turn into a genuinely good side who will do well this season? For me, it's still a no. The first 45 against Palace was a good watch and we should have been ahead. The problem was that lots of issues of the past raised their heads in the second half.

If we can put together some performances like the first half against Palace for a longer period and actually rack some wins up, then great, I'm open to him changing my mind. However, right now, I really just don't see him getting us enough goals/wins. The defence looks so much better with De Ligt, and we have definitely tightned up. So there are some positives, but lots of issues still remain.
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Well balanced, and fair comments. There are still issues, but I also thinks its worth considering why.

Both conceding and scoring were huge problems last year. So far we have 3 clean sheets in 5 games. Add in Ugarte and there is a solid defensive foundation to build on.

Going forward and getting enough goals is a problem. But thats not really surprising when our striker is a 21 year old, and now another who's played all of 4 games for us. Plus out wide you have two more youngsters breaking through in Ahmad and Garnacho.

Baring freaks of nature (Messi, Ronaldo, Halaand, Mbappe, etc), the vast vast majority of players will develop in their teens/early twenties. But they won't generally improve after that, rather they become more consistent by the mid twenties.

In the next years there will be some good performances and some that aren't. Inconsistency is part of the growing pains with young players. Whether that is under ETH or someone else, that inconsistency won't change.

Transfers under ETH have poor without doubt, but now that is under the auspices of Ineos, the squad they have put together is really looking bright for the future. This could well be the core of our line up for many years.


-- Hojlund (21) ---


Garnacho (20) ----- Mainoo (19) ----- Amad (22)


Kone (18) ------ Ugarte (23)


LB ----- Martinez/MDL ----- Yoro (18) ---- RB


GK
 
Why don't Ineos and ETH come out and say, "We are planning for the future, we are not expecting to compete until these group of players reach 27-29 years old".? That is like 5-7 years away, is that the plan? I guess we can stop watching the games for now. Let's come back after 5 years. I still cannot understand why we didn't opt for a more season striker?
 
mu4c_20le said:
I'm really not defending or excusing him, I just think that if people want to praise Arsenal and Arteta for their work, then they cannot also want Ten Hag out in the same sentence without at least giving him equal opportunity. Arteta also had to play pragmatic football in the beginning to win the cup before he got the right players for his own style. Now, it's true that ETH may never reach his levels at all, and some may not wish to wait or take that chance and replace him asap. That's fair. There was a time when I wanted to do that as well, but there aren't really any stand out candidates right now. I like the Brighton manager and Mckenna, but they are still very young and may not be ready yet.
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That's fair enough, but in terms of Arteta - why should he be our sole barometer? He's got Arsenal to a good place on the pitch, certainly, but ultimately he's achieved very little - he's won less proper trophies than Ten Hag! I know Man City are a tough nut to crack in the league, but they've been pretty average in the Champions League as well.
 
r0663664 said:
Why don't Ineos and ETH come out and say, "We are planning for the future, we are not expecting to compete until these group of players reach 27-29 years old".? That is like 5-7 years away, is that the plan? I guess we can stop watching the games for now. Let's come back after 5 years. I still cannot understand why we didn't opt for a more season striker?
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Because they'd spend a lot of transfer funds on an individual they think wont be enough to move the needle. The reality is we are probably building with an outlook to compete in 2-3 years when most of the players can be in or approaching their prime. Amad, Nacho, Mainoo, Yoro, Zirkzee, Ugarte have a long way to go before one could say they can be world beaters. I suspect we will see grandiose transfers later on in this cycle, and only if we see steady progress from our youngsters. It's not 5 years. We should be playing good football now, but PL winning football we wont.
 
UnsungHero said:
That's fair enough, but in terms of Arteta - why should he be our sole barometer? He's got Arsenal to a good place on the pitch, certainly, but ultimately he's achieved very little - he's won less proper trophies than Ten Hag! I know Man City are a tough nut to crack in the league, but they've been pretty average in the Champions League as well.
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He shouldn't be the sole barometer, but he's probably the closest we have in the terms of equivalence in recent times.

Taking over a club with years of underperformance, a mismatch squad, and poor culture.

But just because it took him 3/4 years, that doesn't mean it'll be the same for someone else. Could be longer, could be quicker.

The way I see it is that ETH took over a squad which had players from 5 different managers all with different styles, bloated wages, and many with bad attitudes.

In two years it's transformed to a squad with phenomenal upside, all young, and technical, and seemingly with a positive mentality.

And won two trophies whilst doing it.

Maybe he works out, maybe he doesn't, but it would be daft to not give him this season to see if he can kick on.

Worst case scenario we don't win anything and finish outside top four. Not great. But whoever does take over will inherit a group of players all technical all young and all with huge potential.
 
he’s confident about a win tomorrow. He said he doesn’t want to hurt something he loves. As strong connections to them. He best go for the kill though. Want a game like Barnsley. Make OT a goal fest!
 
Theo88 said:
Because they'd spend a lot of transfer funds on an individual they think wont be enough to move the needle. The reality is we are probably building with an outlook to compete in 2-3 years when most of the players can be in or approaching their prime. Amad, Nacho, Mainoo, Yoro, Zirkzee, Ugarte have a long way to go before one could say they can be world beaters. I suspect we will see grandiose transfers later on in this cycle, and only if we see steady progress from our youngsters. It's not 5 years. We should be playing good football now, but PL winning football we wont.
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If we got ourselves and EPL scorer, we wouldn't be struggling so badly. Expecting Hoijund or Zirkzee to come good is questionable. Hoijund is here for a season, he has yet to convince me that he is a starting striker for any EPL teams, let alone United. Zirkzee hasn't been clinical as well. It is likely season where we are the lowest scorers in the league. What the plan now? Buy another striker in the summer transfer window. Let's pray the Arsenal kid comes good.
 
Southgate’s availability is the one string that’s stopped me going full-scale ETH out

Id take 3 more years of Ten Hag to avoid 3 months of Southgate
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Southgate’s availability is the one string that’s stopped me going full-scale ETH out

Id take 3 more years of Ten Hag to avoid 3 months of Southgate
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This..

I'm not 100% ETH out, but I'm also not 100% sold on this "new" ETH we're currently seeing in his 3rd season. But I'd rather keep him, than have to watch fecking Southgate ball.
 
The_Midfielder said:
If the Chelsea guy can so it 2 months, why can't we?
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Oh dear. Chelsea was due course already end of last season, finding the first 14 players to build their new squad on + in the summer like 30 more players were bought and the manager could basically hand pick those who already did fit his vision to build the squad. Most of them rather young and should be able to develop still.

Yet it can all go tits up, if they hit a rough patch. Which young inexperienced squad that bring.
 
Beachryan said:
This is my take exactly. We're playing much better football this season. That's what most of us wanted to see.

Either our finishing improves and results follow, or ETH gets the boot and we hope a new manager can get those metrics going in the right direction.

We're creating very good chances at a rate that puts us near the top of the league this year, without sacrificing 20 shots a game. I would killed for that last year.
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With the money spent on players, who are supposedly quality players, being in 11th with a 0 GD is failure. Don't sugarcoat it, it is what it is. Again, this ain't Brighton or Wolves or Everton or West Ham. Have we forgotten this is Manchester United or has it been so long since we have really been a top level team that we reach for anything now?
 
Musclehead said:
With the money spent on players, who are supposedly quality players, being in 11th with a 0 GD is failure. Don't sugarcoat it, it is what it is. Again, this ain't Brighton or Wolves or Everton or West Ham. Have we forgotten this is Manchester United or has it been so long since we have really been a top level team that we reach for anything now?
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You are completely missing the point imo cuz both @Beachryan and @Di Maria's angel point out that performances are better which gives them (not to speak for them) and me confidence in the players. It gives me hope that If not ETH then next manager can do better.
 
Musclehead said:
With the money spent on players, who are supposedly quality players, being in 11th with a 0 GD is failure. Don't sugarcoat it, it is what it is. Again, this ain't Brighton or Wolves or Everton or West Ham. Have we forgotten this is Manchester United or has it been so long since we have really been a top level team that we reach for anything now?
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As a general rule in football, results follow performances. As with Ole-ball - when we'd scrape some points but it never felt like it could last because you couldn't see the patterns. Similar has happened with both Arsenal and Liverpool in recent times - playing well but not getting the points, then eventually things start lining up.

Our performance stats this season have been very good. At the top of chances created, much much better on chances conceded then last season. If we continue to be at or near the top of the xg table, we will end up in the top 4. That's why I'm waiting it out. We should have beaten both Brighton and Palace, and if we had, we'd be fine.

If it's any help, we should probably have finished even lower last season given how badly we played.
 
so it looks like Eddie Howe's name has been thrown in the hat as the guy to possibly replace EtH
 
bosskeano said:
so it looks like Eddie Howe's name has been thrown in the hat as the guy to possibly replace EtH
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Smoke and mirrors. Howe's football doesn't match up with what Wilcox wants.

Moreover, Ashworth had huge issues with Howe.
 
MadDogg said:
Considering Howe and his brother seemed to be one of the big reasons (along with Utd being a much bigger club of course) that Ashworth wanted out of Newcastle, I highly doubt that.
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i thought the conflict was Howe and Mitchell
 
bosskeano said:
i thought the conflict was Howe and Mitchell
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It is now, but there were a lot of rumours that Ashworth wasn't happy with how much influence Howe and his nephew (I mistakenly thought he was his brother in my previous post) had while he was there. The fact that Mitchell has gone in and instantly seems to have had similar problems just lends more weight to those rumours.
 
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