Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag


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Someone has to be held accountable but it may not be fair to pin this one on ETH. We kept a clean sheet and kept a clean sheet but we couldn’t finish.

Officially, how many shots on goal did our forwards have?
 
The last 30 mins of today’s game took me back to 2016 and LVG. Slow, unimaginative and sideways passes while almost playing for the draw. Ten Hag is on a short leash and results need to improve or he should be rightfully sacked.
 
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Your argument doesnt make sense at all. Its not just the results that matter but the performances too. Fulham and Nottingham are ahead of us in the table do you seriously believe they will finish above United?

Can you come up with one plausible reason why it does not seem well founded to expect United to beat Spurs. You do know that Spurs have also lost two games and have just 7 points.

I expect United to beat Spurs because we have been playing well, creating chances and conceding very few. As I have said before, we could have won all our games (except the Liverpool one), including against Man City, Brighton and Palace.

Its not unfounded to expect Utd to win every game if we keep playing the way we have recently. I’m still not sure if you even disagree with that point given how keen you always are to obfuscate and deflect and excuse.

Because we have not shown a reliable ability to win games even in games where we have played well for spells and created chances.

Not sure how you don’t understand that very simple point to be honest.
 
The last 30 mins of today’s game took me back to 2016 and LVG. Slow, unimaginative and sideways passes while almost playing for the draw.

And the first 50-60 minutes were about as similar as a dominant United side in the good old days was, minus a clinical finisher.

I thought we looked excellent mostly and I feel quite encouraged by the performance.
 
Another blank, neither in favour or against.... what I would say to the numerous posts about the lovely football and style, we were slow, possession was largely ineffective, and the football was pretty dull most of the time, we looked good 1st half but a teams playing with more energy and pressing than CP in the first half would have stopped us in our tracks, what I do not understand, watching Utd and watching other teams, is that we seem to make such hard work to get the ball anywhere over the half way line, if it isn't a pass (normally a long ball) down the wings we struggle to move the ball forward, we do not seem capable of pinning teams in even when we are dominating possession, we seem far more interested in passing the ball between defenders than we are with actually playing football.

I think today was summed up by the last minute of play, when instead of trying to get it long, everyone bombing forward, hoping to create in the last few, we were still passing back and forth across the back line.... Okay I understand this philosophy of patterns of play, but seems to me that we are more concerned with the "you can only score if you have the ball" than we are with realising that you actually need to do something with it once you have it.
 
Despite slightly improved performances this season, our results have actually gotten worse. We’re in a worse league position and at the current rate, are on course for a lower points total than last season. Maybe that changes, maybe not. Who knows with this manager.

We definitely deserved to win today. And the squad looks way more balanced. Many negatives are still there though. Feeling like we need to play Erikson is very worrying. Clearly Bruno is misfiring creatively.
 
Results aside, I'd say we are looking a lot better. If Zirkzee can finish and Ugarte can hold the ring we should be decent. The main difference is the defence though. Martinez and De Ligt are both really good CDs and hopefully Yoro will be as well. If we can rotate enough to avoid injury then it could get very interesting.

It's only even going to be a fight for fourth place though. That's the best we can hope for.

That's a pretty big thing to just ignore though.

For me, today would have been acceptable in his first season, maybe even the 2nd. But this is his 3rd season here, and we still cannot manage to combine a good 90 minutes and a win. It's like the most we can manage is about an hour and then after that we fade badly and the opposition take over. 7 points from the opening 5 games is shite and today was another example of ETH's subs making us worse. Same thing happened at Brighton too.

I like the look of the squad, I think it's pretty strong. I don't trust ETH to get the best out of it though, I can't see him being here much longer.
 
What are you on about? I said there's no value in judging league tables after 5 games because of the randomised fixture list not being a good enough sample size of actual competence.

And I used the fact that Spurs played 2 relegation fodders and a bottom half of the table team compared to us facing better outfits in Fulham, Brighton and Palace to exemplify that. It's really not rocket science, going by league positions 5 games in just isn't a smart way to make a point.
We’ve had favorable fixtures as well to be honest. Palace are badly out of form having lost two crucial players, Fulham don’t travel well (15th worst last year) and we played Brighton at a convenient time with a new manager and many new players. Southampton seem quite poor as well. It has not been a tough run you are trying to portray it as.
 
We’ve had favorable fixtures as well to be honest. Palace are badly out of form having lost two crucial players, Fulham don’t travel well (15th worst last year) and we played Brighton at a convenient time with a new manager and many new players. Southampton seem quite poor as well. It has not been a tough run you are trying to portray it as.
and Liverpool have a new manager yet managed to dominate us. I hate how this season will be another one of pain and suffering, most likely.
 
If he can get us playing like we did in the 1st half today we'll probably do quite well, that's the most in control of a game I've seen from us for ages to be fair (excluding the likes of Barnsley).

The issue is, we couldn't keep it up for a full game, and the first 45 minutes is an anomaly at this point. The 2nd half is closer to our usual level.

The conundrum for me is that regardless of improvement, i don't think we can afford for it to be slow under him. He has to prove to us that he has the capability of winning a league title. This isn't his first season anymore, where we can see glimpses of good performances and hope. He's in his third season after a miserable second season. For me, he showed a lack of urgency that's expected in a United manager last season and has shown a willingness to pass the buck when things aren't going his way.

If he were a new manager, and he were playing this way, I may have been a bit more enthusiastic. But for me, its really scary thinking that we've spent the last ten years in rebuild mode. I've always maintained that this mentality was always a mistake from us. Big clubs don't rebuild, they evolve. We aren't City in 2008 or Chelsea in 2003. We always had the money to buy players and should have been able to have teams who could at least challenge every season. But as a club, we always dropped our standards to make it more comfortable for our managers. Constantly dropping these standards and pushing ideas of success to future seasons creates the loop we've had going for the last decade.

The squad that we have is good enough to challenge for the league. Yet as a fanbase, we are hoping and even urging our manager to have institute the right tactical system and patterns to make us competitive. Instead of expecting wins, we are hoping for good spells of play that can justify our manager keeping his job, whilst some our players are getting older. We try to hold on to the little bits of play, whilst losing sight of the fact that other teams with less money are able to consistently have these patterns and are judged on results, because good play is simply expected.

Even in this game, as good as we were for good portions, we didn't win the game because our build up play isn't up to par and we are currently relying heavily on transitions and set pieces. When Crystal Palace changed shape and set up shop, we were too static in our build up, due to the build up patterns being overly structured (tactics) and we didn't have a route to attack. Using Mazraoui and Dalot at left back meant that we didn't have an overlap in our full back area. This meant that we would need to move the ball quicker or have a lot of rotation in the front line to give Amad and Garnacho a chance at running at their full back. When Zirkzee was in the game, his ability to deep, link play or threat a through ball, presented that opportunity in behind. However, when he got subbed out, this couldn't happen. Hence why we were out of ideas and hoping for Bruno to create something out of nothing. Yet when people talk about this game, it will present like we ran out of steam, when in reality, our flaws just became apparent as the game wore on. Flaws that we shouldn't have in our third season, but fans are willing to look past for any visible sign of progress.
 
At 40th minute mark we had 10 shots with 4 on taget, hitting the bar twice with Palace having 0 shots overall.
Kinda dominant innit
If it had gone in the Garnacho shot and the Bruno follow up would have been squashed, Garnacho was offside
 
Last season we were a team that struggled to finish 8th, this season we look like a team that will struggle to finish 5th.

It’s an improvement but still far away from what we should be after 3 seasons in charge. I have no faith at all in Ten Hag.

His assistants do seem to have added some positives to the team though.
 
We definitely deserved to win today. And the squad looks way more balanced. Many negatives are still there though. Feeling like we need to play Erikson is very worrying. Clearly Bruno is misfiring creatively.

We didn’t really. We couldn’t put the ball into the back of the net. If you can’t do that, you don’t deserve to win. It’s not like we were robbed by a ref decision or something.
 
That's a pretty big thing to just ignore though.
Fair. I've always said we should judge him in the New Year, not now.
For me, today would have been acceptable in his first season, maybe even the 2nd. But this is his 3rd season here, and we still cannot manage to combine a good 90 minutes and a win. It's like the most we can manage is about an hour and then after that we fade badly and the opposition take over.
Basically Mainoo's battery life. He's very young still.
7 points from the opening 5 games is shite and today was another example of ETH's subs making us worse. Same thing happened at Brighton too.
You're not wrong. Let's see how we look when Ugarte gets a few starts. Problem at the moment is Bruno is misfiring and so Erikson is needed to fill the creative gaps. Maybe Mount or Zirkzee can push Bruno out and give him a rest cos he sure looks like he needs one.
I like the look of the squad, I think it's pretty strong. I don't trust ETH to get the best out of it though, I can't see him being here much longer.
Think he's here till christmas. After that it's hard to tell.
 
It left me horribly frustrated as it showed what this squad could be capable of with a good manager
We are not going to have a good manager anytime soon so we may as well enjoy what we have and be happy with small improvements. It’s definitely been a better season than the last one.
 
The last 30 mins of today’s game took me back to 2016 and LVG. Slow, unimaginative and sideways passes while almost playing for the draw. Ten Hag is on a short leash and results need to improve or he should be rightfully sacked.
Felt the same for me.

The difference being it wasn’t like that for the full 90, but a painful result todays all the same.

The performance was great… if we had scored and won. Can a performance ever be truly good if the result doesn’t follow?

It was progress, but it’s year three. ETH does not have time for slow and simple progress. He has to play this way and get results/top four.
 
Because we have not shown a reliable ability to win games even in games where we have played well for spells and created chances.

Not sure how you don’t understand that very simple point to be honest.
And Spurs have? No. They haven't. They've just had an easier first 5 fixtures, that's literally all. Arsenal at home missing Rice and Odegard was a big moment for them too and they didn't even look close to creating a proper chance for fecksake.
 
We didn’t really. We couldn’t put the ball into the back of the net. If you can’t do that, you don’t deserve to win. It’s not like we were robbed by a ref decision or something.
Also fair. But finishing aside we were easily the better team.
 
We’ve had favorable fixtures as well to be honest. Palace are badly out of form having lost two crucial players, Fulham don’t travel well (15th worst last year) and we played Brighton at a convenient time with a new manager and many new players. Southampton seem quite poor as well. It has not been a tough run you are trying to portray it as.
Compared to Spurs we haven't. Both Brighton and Fulham are much better teams than the likes of Brentford and Everton. Newcastle have actually played very poorly this season scraping games like we did in the early part of last season. Funnily enough they got beat today by Fulham themselves.

And they had Leicester too, who they couldn't even put away at home.
 
Yes his subs didn't work second half but he set the team up to create enough chances to win.

Can't blame him for players misfiring.

He needs to bench Bruno though
 
Tough run, I've heard it all now in terms of excuses.

Fulham, Southampton, Brighton and Palace being among your starting five games is nowhere close to a tough run. It's actually actually a dream run for any club with our resources.
 
Because we have not shown a reliable ability to win games even in games where we have played well for spells and created chances.

Not sure how you don’t understand that very simple point to be honest.
We have played 5 league games so far with 2 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw. Overall, we have played well and created plenty of chances. Spurs have the same record 2 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw. Its entirely reasonable to expect United to beat this Spurs team at Old Trafford. If I was a betting person I would put money on United winning this match.

I doubt you actually disagree with that. It feels like you are arguing just for the sake of it.
 
Fair. I've always said we should judge him in the New Year, not now.

Basically Mainoo's battery life. He's very young still.

You're not wrong. Let's see how we look when Ugarte gets a few starts. Problem at the moment is Bruno is misfiring and so Erikson is needed to fill the creative gaps. Maybe Mount or Zirkzee can push Bruno out and give him a rest cos he sure looks like he needs one.

Think he's here till christmas. After that it's hard to tell.

I don't think he deserves until New Year if results stay at the same level as they are now.

Not 3 seasons in and with how horrendous last season was. It would be madness in my opinion.

I was thinking about 10 games into the League campaign is the time to assess things, that takes us up to the November international break. If we're still languishing around mid table then he has to go. To be honest I think if he doesn't get at least 4 points from the next 2 games he'd be in major trouble.

I love Bruno but yeah he was absolutely brutal today. Possibly the worst he's ever played for us. Probably needs a break.
 
Don't you dare put me in the camp of the morons who go on about cultists :lol: I'm not easily offended, but that's sickening.

I simply think the Eze chance was all things considered the best chance of the game. No massive agenda, no over dramatics, simply opinion.

Ha, fair enough, I can agree to disagree with you on that.

Do you at least agree that in terms of total chance quality we were quite far ahead?
 
The conundrum for me is that regardless of improvement, i don't think we can afford for it to be slow under him. He has to prove to us that he has the capability of winning a league title. This isn't his first season anymore, where we can see glimpses of good performances and hope. He's in his third season after a miserable second season. For me, he showed a lack of urgency that's expected in a United manager last season and has shown a willingness to pass the buck when things aren't going his way.
That's the frustrating thing about our current situation, is the first 2 years were a complete waste of time. We were a worse team after 2 years than we were in his opening months, and he's tried to pursue a hectic transition based style which was the wrong path to go down, and our squad was left with very little pace in our defence, very little technical quality in keeping possession, and old players who are past their prime in key positions.

It feels like we're starting the project all over again rather than building on what's already been done, because there was nothing positive to build on.

And one of the most annoying things about the new project is we've gifted Bruno an unnecessary and undeserved contract extension and pay increase, so now we're stuck playing hot potato football for the next 3 years at least. I don't think we've learned anything.
 
Give the hyperbole a rest. The vast majority of posters aren’t being hysterical. They’re simply criticizing Ten Hag’s in game management and there is justification for them doing so. It’s been a recurring criticism of his tenure. Only ending up with one point given how the first half went is disappointing.

If you're simply criticising his in game management, just so we're on the same page, do you accept and agree that the first half was excellent, and that Ten Hag gets credit for setting us up that way?
 
I love Bruno but yeah he was absolutely brutal today. Possibly the worst he's ever played for us. Probably needs a break.
It's a problem. I can't help but feel Zirkzee is the bigger problem though because he's essentially doing the false number nine thing which is where Bruno plays best. And like some hellish Wout Weghorst upgrade he's really good at everything except scoring. So we are stuck with him as a starter. Hojlund hasn't had a good patch in months. Rashford can't play centre forward. Maybe we should have bought Toney, not Zirkzee?

ETH has some puzzles to solve for sure. You may be right about November. Though RvN is the one supposed to be getting the forwards firing so maybe he needs to do better too.
 
Yes his subs didn't work second half but he set the team up to create enough chances to win.

Can't blame him for players misfiring.

He needs to bench Bruno though

Yeah when he plays with a 9.5 player like Zirkzee or Bruno in the false 9, we build up really well but rely on the wide forwards to produce. If they don’t then we’re screwed.
 
We have played 5 league games so far with 2 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw. Overall, we have played well and created plenty of chances. Spurs have the same record 2 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw. Its entirely reasonable to expect United to beat this Spurs team at Old Trafford. If I was a betting person I would put money on United winning this match.

I doubt you actually disagree with that. It feels like you are arguing just for the sake of it.

Overall we have played well and created chances and still only won 40% of our games. And that’s somehow an argument that we should expect to beat Spurs? I’m not sure how that stacks up, logically speaking.

My point the whole time has been that the Spurs game feels like a bit of a toss up. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we won, we drew, or we lost. I’m certainly not expecting a win.

Why does that stance mean I’m arguing for the sake of it?
 
Compared to Spurs we haven't. Both Brighton and Fulham are much better teams than the likes of Brentford and Everton. Newcastle have actually played very poorly this season scraping games like we did in the early part of last season. Funnily enough they got beat today by Fulham themselves.

And they had Leicester too, who they couldn't even put away at home.
I’d say it’s quite similar actually. Arsenal is harder than Liverpool, Newcastle similar to Brighton, not much between Fulham and Brentford, not much between Southampton and Leicester and not much between Palace and Everton. Seems virtually the same if you lay them out like this rather than look for mismatches. Definitely not different enough to be super impactful and to call one tough and the other easy.

Spurs have been poor btw. Really not impressed with them this season at all.
 
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I love Bruno but yeah he was absolutely brutal today. Possibly the worst he's ever played for us.
I swear someone says this almost every week.

A player capable of great moments does not make a great player. We cannot build our team around a player who has so many frequent instances of brainless and erratic play every time he's on the pitch.
 
If you're simply criticising his in game management, just so we're on the same page, do you accept and agree that the first half was excellent, and that Ten Hag gets credit for setting us up that way?

The first half was certainly the best we’ve played all season (versus PL standard opoosition at least). But we didn’t put the ball in the back of the net, which again, is a recurring and frustrating theme. So overall, no, I wouldn’t say it was excellent. Finishing some of the chances we created and taking the lead would have been excellent. I guess we just have different standards.
 
As if they can’t play together…
Ideally Bruno is dropped with Zirkzee dropped into the no10 role but we all know that's never going to happen. ETH is very stubborn with that stuff. Maybe if bruno starts actually playing well for two games in a row then he'll be benched, similar to what happened with Rashford?
 
Overall we have played well and created chances and still only won 40% of our games. And that’s somehow an argument that we should expect to beat Spurs? I’m not sure how that stacks up, logically speaking.

My point the whole time has been that the Spurs game feels like a bit of a toss up. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we won, we drew, or we lost. I’m certainly not expecting a win.

Why does that stance mean I’m arguing for the sake of it?
Okay that sounds fair. I am confident United will win this game and my prediction is a 5-1 scoreline. Feel free to add your prediction here and we will revisit this page next week to see how things turned out.
 
Ideally Bruno is dropped with Zirkzee dropped into the no10 role but we all know that's never going to happen. ETH is very stubborn with that stuff. Maybe if bruno starts actually playing well for two games in a row then he'll be benched, similar to what happened with Rashford?
Now we have fans complaining about rotation as if Garnacho isn’t in better form
 
Okay that sounds fair. I am confident United will win this game and my prediction is a 5-1 scoreline. Feel free to add your prediction here and we will revisit this page next week to see how things turned out.
2-2
 
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