Not necessarily. He could also have said something along the lines like "We don't have a chance if that bunch of crybabies has to play today".
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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Now this is funny.
Outside of Casemiro I'm curious which players he makes worse?
Theres a lot of delusion to cut through here..
But the bolded struck me as the most deluded point. I’m not sure on what planet Amad, Zirkzee or Mount would become key players at Newcastle and Villa. Even Garnacho for all his potential is not yet at the level of the options those teams have.
Newcastle scored 85 goals last season. Almost thirty more than Manchester United. In Isak they arguably have the second best centre forward in the league. In Anthony Gordon they have one of the most effective wingers. They also have Harvey Barnes.
Villa have Watkins and Bailey who got 58 goal contributions between them last season. It would be a big surprise if United even scored 58 goals this season as a team.
Mason Mount was a good reliable player three years ago and yeah he’d have walked into most teams. Current Mount however is a nothing player injured 90% of the time.
I was reading the post and my bemusement kept growing but then i saw the posterTaken a giant swig of kool aid there.
Rashford second best LW in the league. Martinez most press resistant CB in the world. Onana a better keeper than Areola or Raya or Pope. Hojlund has 30 goal per season potential. And maybe the best one - Bruno "Flat Track" Fernandes the second best #10 in the world.
Antony is definitely a lost cause we should have taken whatever fee we could get for him in the summer. Same with Sancho if Ten Hag had no intention of playing him and invested it into a right winger. Onana I see what everyone else is seeing but for some reason I still think he could come good, or at least be better than he has been. Rashford has a big problem I don't know if he'll ever get over it, he needs help and maybe a change of scenery would be the best thing for him. The likes of Casemiro could still be useful in a different system in my opinion, though granted he's not the player he was 2 years ago.
But despite those issues this squad still has a lot of potential. I personally don't think Ten Hag is getting anywhere near the best out of it.
Do you ever tire of playing devils advocate?
I'm not ready to say he makes every player worse, after all Rashford had his best season under us (and had started his decline into averageness before Ten Hag). The players who were here before him have underperformed under other managers so there is nothing new there. The players he has signed all have had ups and downs throughout their time here, as has the team as a whole. What I do think is this season he doesn't have an excuse of injuries/the squad not being good enough (which tbf in what was probably our worst ever injury season is a fair excuse). The squad to me is deeper this season whilst not being a top 2/challenge for the title squad. So I would expect us to make top 4 as a minimum this season, which he has done with an equally bad start and a much worse squad in his first season.
I'm judging Onana on him regularly looking like a rabbit in the headlights playing for us. Regardless of how many shots were taken, he's conceded a number of very straightforward shots on target.
How else am I supposed to judge players, other than on the most up to date performances? You're judging them on blind hope that they're actually better than what they've shown, because among some of those you've mentioned, there's nothing to suggest they've ever been as good as you seem to think they are/will be.
We've played four competitive games this season. He's conceded six goals from 11 shots on target. Against City and Liverpool he conceded four from four. Obviously that's not a great sample size, but we saw him let in a number of incredibly weak shots last season, and a common complaint is his seeming inability to get to anything that requires any sort of reflex dive.
He's less of a worry than Antony, and our current lack of consistent goalscorer, fit left-back, or back-up midfield options, but it's going to take a remarkable turnaround if he's still going to be here in two or three seasons.
I said up thread that the next four games are basically do or die for Ten Hag. We should not only be winning all four, but we should be getting through them all fairly comfortably if we're to believe that we're actually moving forwards.
https://
x.com/TenHagEra/status/1833077497409184181
Wait this is an absolute disgrace, whoever published these articles should lose their job.
x.com/TenHagEra/status/1833077497409184181
Wait this is an absolute disgrace, whoever published these articles should lose their job.
Feel free to answer the question.
If he’s not making the players worse, then surely the fault lies with the manager. You can’t have it both ways.
I think everyone generally expected Villa to not be relegation fodder though. I wouldn't have gone as far as firmly ranking them among the league's top squads, but they certainly had the potential to at least compete for a Europa spot.
For what it's worth, I also expect them to drop off this season. They actually started tailing off in the second half of last season, and will now be balancing their league campaign, which will come with increased expectations, with fixtures against the likes of Bayern Munich and Juventus, rather than Legia Warsaw and Zrinjski Molstar.
I agree. He's to blame for the poor start this season.
I dont think he's making many players worse though. He needs to tweak the set up better to account for habitual team mistakes.
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But isn’t part of the point we don’t have those world class players? Those of unquestionable quality apart from Bruno?
Our best players (those who if fit would probably make it into most sides):
Bruno
Martinez
Shaw
I say this as someone who likes the direction the squad is moving in and can see the potential in the squad but right now it’s potential and far from a mature and competitive side compared to others.
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I think to lay this at the feet of the manager our transfer policy over however many years is unfair.
This summer window is the first one with a clear direction.
I agree with the general statement, although you get the feeling it's always the next player we're missing that might make it work. It was supposed to be Martinez (who was injured last season). Now, it's Mount missing that is preventing us from being able to press. Any team should not be so reliant on single player. I'd accept if that was a difference between top 4 and challenging for title, or at least 2nd spot, but we're a midtable team now.
Are we back in 2022?
Anyway, what's the conclusion here? We need better players to get better results? And what is the manager's role in that process, if any?
It’s more than a tweak needed though, isn’t it? I think this is what has done my head in with him, he seems to just ignore issues, make the same choices over and over, when things just don’t work. I’m not sure it’s stubbornness or ignorance, or a mix of both.
It’s crazy we’ve crept up to almost 20% wanting to keep him on the poll here. He’s a great manager unless we have to actually play football matches.
If we go by this season it's a small data set, he looks to have had less of a vertical gap between the midfielders and our pressing was improved. And I don't think he's telling casemiro to go nuts with the passing. But at the same time there was a lot of disjointed moments vs Brighton in the backline, ball hunting etc.
As I say I'm waiting to find out, our backline is half changed. He's really on a last chance saloon with next games.
Agreed for Erik it's now or never. A lot of people gave him the benefit of the doubt last year because of the injuries. But there seems to be a feeling that most fans won't have much patiences for more excuses this season.
And yeah I wouldn't bet any decent money on the the club/next manager wanting to keep Onana long term.
So who was directing the last two?
How long are we supposed to wait? A year, two, three? By the time someone like Yoro matures a bunch of other players - including our "three best players" will be declining.
A poor manager will result in poor playing performance, which can and probably will provide us with an inaccurate understanding of the quality this team has or does not have.
Is Casemiro really no longer capable of playing in the premier league, or is he being let down by tactics? Is Shaw's career over, or is the training leading to injuries? Did Mount turn into a nothing player, or is he not being given the framework to perform? Is Rashford done at this level? Are so many of our signings busts, or is there more going on here? Why is Bruno, arguably our best player, not performing at the level he used to? Why is everyone notably worse than they were before they joined us?
How much of individual player decline is down to the manager?
I’m curious because you pop up in every thread taking the opposite view to the majority
Rashford has had one good season and one horrible season under him. Prior to ETH joining he was good up until 21-22 when he was horrible, so if anything he just went back to his form pre-2021 or close (he was fantastic in 2019-20 for instance, possibly even better than 22-23). He's now back to being as useless as he was in 21-22.
I said it in another comment, but the only player currently out injured that I'd expect to make a noticeable difference to our first eleven is Shaw, and even then, we seem content with Dalot & Mazraoui.
Ugarte should also help, so with that in mind, and the relatively kind fixture list, there really can't be any excuses for not showing massive improvements.
Well the majority aren't always right. Especially on the caf.
Anyway, my view is that our problem right now is more down to habitual team errors rather than any standalone individual standards dropping. Can't think of many or any players worsened under Ten Hag compared to where he picked them up from. Bar casemiro that is.
It’s a strange one because I’d argue that he has in fact improved some individuals, or they have improved naturally under his charge. For example Dalot. I also thought that AWB had improved too. We may see those improvements now he’s at West Ham.
However, at the same time I believe that his tactics are holding this group back and in fact making them look bad. Because with this tactic there is no middle ground, win or bust
He was a brilliant coach for Ajax, playing sensational football at times and helped the career of a lot of players - he clearly isn't completely incompetent. The good far outweighed the bad for them. That is probably also why so many people are quick to defend him. The problem is that we aren’t seeing enough of that good here.
At this point it seems like the Premier League is just a step or two too much for him. How come he can't even get convicing wins against minnows, is anyone's guess.
Yeah I agree with this. Weirdly though I do think that is starting to change, even if Liverpool did destroy us.
For me it is the Brighton loss that has put him under pressure and pissed me off. If we beat Brighton then a L to Liverpool is palatable, but the same silly mistakes means hes under immediate pressure. And I'm not saying he shouldn't be.
He's now in a situation where he should be getting 7 pts out of the next 9 in my books. Away to Palace among that with Spurs and Villa. Even those with most patience toward the manager will find out once and for all whether they were onto something by giving him their time, or if the experiment was long past it's end date.
Just me or was this weekend just gone particularly wonderful ?
What?! Now ETH gets credit for players playing well elsewhere?
I loved it. No disappointments, got some good time with the family and woke up on a Sunday late and happy
As far as I'm concerned, the ice is well and truly cracking under him now.
We've got Ugarte to bolster the midfield, and the injuries to Mount, Hojlund and Yoro really shouldn't affect first team performance that much. Even Shaw, who I think would immediately improve the starting 11, is a player we're seemingly happy to be covered by Dalot/Mazraoui.
If we can't reach the next international break having comfortably brought home 9+ points in the league, 4+ points in the Europa, and cruised through to the next round of the league cup, then he should be sacked.
I hope this is right because I can honestly see us getting 2-3 points out of our next 3 league games and people still excusing him with some made up ‘circumstances’.
What is a spectacular defense?
The goalposts wil just move, yeah. "Can't believe these lunatics are judging ETH after 6 games". He'll need Yoro and Shaw back before we can see his system.
I was willing to be quite patient last season, because our injury crisis was bad. I had frustrations with the lack of attempt at covering for that injury crisis by persisting with a tactic that wasn't working, and thought the whole "Varane can't play on the left side" thing was an utterly bizarre excuse for leaving him out of the team, compounded by him returning to the team while Evans shifted to the right.
The only noteable injury this season is Shaw, as Zirkzee is in to rotate with Hojlund, Mount hasn't cemented a starting place anyway, and Yoro was always likely to be a rotation option.
If we struggle with this upcoming run of fixtures, I honestly don't know what excuse people can come up with and maintain a straight face.
In this context, "spectacular" was just another way of saying special/particularly notable/standout.
I think it's our strongest area of the pitch (if you count the goalkeeper as its own thing), but we have no fit left-back, and our centre-back options are very much reliant on De Ligt finding his feet soon and Martinez refinding his pre-injury form. I'm really not seeing how it's comfortably better than the defensive options at all of Villa, Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle, and it certainly isn't on a par with what City, Arsenal and Liverpool have.
It's not ours anyway. We've conceded five goals in three games. Even if our defense becomes somewhat solid under this manager, we've a keeper that the opposition will always feel they've a chance having a pop at and he'll fumble.
I have recently decided that I am now more sack than back. [Posts that feel sexual but aren't]
Despite me thinking there has been a general improvement in our overall play and organisation this season, those things weren't hard to improve on as lots of fans and pundits have mentioned these things in the past. It felt insane that they weren't addressed more immediately last season when we were far more open and players ran through our non-existent midfield. Despite what some people want to believe, this isn't happening much now, but we are still guilty of incredibly poor individual errors that lead to goals. Or, in the oppositions final third, we are diagnosed with chronically making the wrong decision after opening a team up or winning possession back high.
Ten Hag has had to deal with as many curveballs as any manager in history to be fair, but he's got to do it. One way to do it is actually show consistency and a plan which players can buy into, he hasn't done this anywhere near enough, to the extent that I think he is probably not capable of doing it in a top league. He is, most likely, a cup manager. He has delivered two trophies but doesn't seem capable of consistent performances in a tough league season. Hopefully, if he does stay a while, he proves me and others wrong, but I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not sure who the replacement could be, but as it stands I think Ten Hag needs to show a huge change over the next set of fixtures:
Southampton Away
Barnsley Home (EFLC)
Crystal Palace Away
FC Twente Home (UEL)
Tottenham Home
Porto Away (UEL)
Aston Villa Away
That's seven games until the next international break, which might be a point of no return if we lose 2-3 of these games. He needs to get his first choice XI (or close to it) fit and settled. He needs to deliver results and some good performances in those first four games which should realistically all be wins no matter what state we are in. Then, to really show if we are going anywhere, he has the opportunity to play against teams that many would say are currently better than us or at least have been coached into a way of playing. I think at the moment, I can just accept that Man City, Arsenal, and Liverpool are better than us and will be this year, maybe next. But the minimum goal has to be to get 4th place and if we're going to do that, we have to be better than the likes of Spurs and Villa. If he can't show that in the next month, then honestly he just isn't the guy. Change it.
Despite me thinking there has been a general improvement in our overall play and organisation this season, those things weren't hard to improve on as lots of fans and pundits have mentioned these things in the past. It felt insane that they weren't addressed more immediately last season when we were far more open and players ran through our non-existent midfield. Despite what some people want to believe, this isn't happening much now, but we are still guilty of incredibly poor individual errors that lead to goals. Or, in the oppositions final third, we are diagnosed with chronically making the wrong decision after opening a team up or winning possession back high.
Ten Hag has had to deal with as many curveballs as any manager in history to be fair, but he's got to do it. One way to do it is actually show consistency and a plan which players can buy into, he hasn't done this anywhere near enough, to the extent that I think he is probably not capable of doing it in a top league. He is, most likely, a cup manager. He has delivered two trophies but doesn't seem capable of consistent performances in a tough league season. Hopefully, if he does stay a while, he proves me and others wrong, but I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not sure who the replacement could be, but as it stands I think Ten Hag needs to show a huge change over the next set of fixtures:
Southampton Away
Barnsley Home (EFLC)
Crystal Palace Away
FC Twente Home (UEL)
Tottenham Home
Porto Away (UEL)
Aston Villa Away
That's seven games until the next international break, which might be a point of no return if we lose 2-3 of these games. He needs to get his first choice XI (or close to it) fit and settled. He needs to deliver results and some good performances in those first four games which should realistically all be wins no matter what state we are in. Then, to really show if we are going anywhere, he has the opportunity to play against teams that many would say are currently better than us or at least have been coached into a way of playing. I think at the moment, I can just accept that Man City, Arsenal, and Liverpool are better than us and will be this year, maybe next. But the minimum goal has to be to get 4th place and if we're going to do that, we have to be better than the likes of Spurs and Villa. If he can't show that in the next month, then honestly he just isn't the guy. Change it.
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