Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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Post in thread 'Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24' https://www.redcafe.net/threads/erik-ten-hag-2022-23-2023-24.470032/post-32002194

Called it after the cup final. Any poll on EtH literally swings back and forth depending on the most recent result. I don't even blame fans for being fickle. It kind of comes with the job. But how any comprehensive review of our worst ever premier league season led to a decision to keep the guy who presided over it is beyond baffling.
 
Bunch of jokers here. I couldn’t believe that more than 50% here wanted him to stay on as manager this season.

Reap what you sow. And then few games later when we go on a mini winning run, no doubt we will go back to wanting to keep him again
 
Dr Foo said:
Bunch of jokers here. I couldn’t believe that more than 50% here wanted him to stay on as manager this season.

Reap what you sow. And then few games later when we go on a mini winning run, no doubt we will go back to wanting to keep him again
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I still voted stay, I want to see what happens between now and December
 
TheNewEra said:
It's not that impressive at all, Liverpool also were not as impressive as people make them seem really.

They transitioned well and were clinical. If it was Ugarte not Casemiro, different story.

Ugarte releases the ball quickly when he wins it and doesn't lose the ball, so 2 goals were down to him. The other part was not clinical at the other end.

We're supposed to transition, so Liverpool got the ball and didn't lose it on the transition.

United lost it when the full backs were in transition going up the pitch, Casemiro dithered on the ball and lost it.

It wasn't that "Uniteds full back were high up" it's that United had the ball and Casemiro lost it in stupid positions.
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Only thing I would add is that Zirkzee was well off the pace with the press and Liverpool were able to create artificial transitions into the centre, until we reorganised, but that pushed Garnacho and Bruno deeper and their fullbacks enjoyed more freedom
 
crossy1686 said:
We keep hearing best in class from the likes of Ratcliffe and I hope that he’s putting the likes of Ashworth, Berrada, and Wilcox under immense pressure this week. They’re the one’s that will ultimately have to pull the plug on Ten Hag.
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You'd hope so.
 
crossy1686 said:
Let’s face it, losing the ball is part of a football match. Losing the ball high up the field in your own half or around the half way line shouldn’t automatically result in conceding a goal, there’s still a lot to do. But our fecking shape and positioning every time we give it away means the opposition have a run on goal almost undeterred. It’s fecking criminal.
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This. The way we're set up tactically means an individual mistake tends to result in an opposition goal, or at least a clear goalscoring opportunity.

Which is another reason the "ETH did nothing wrong, we lost due to individual mistakes" narrative that comes up after every game is complete bullshit.
 
ROFLUTION said:
I'd want to sack him asap really, but I think it's only fair to give him at least 10 games where he has the same core and best material at his availabilty to see if his playing style actually has any meaning at all.
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This has been beat to death already but prolonging the inevitable only hampers our next season even more. The writing is on the wall. ETH cannot get a tune out of this squad he has built. There is plenty of talent there. Bruno is a shadow of the player we signed. He used to score goals for fun. The chance creator means nothing if we don't take those chances. Rashford is in a slump that you can't just play out of. ETH has picked his battles with the players. He has new coaches and new players. It's down to him now. We've scored two goals in 3 games and barely got away with a win against Fulham at home. His time is up. Ineos need to put their big boy pants on and make the decision they should have made 3 months ago.
 
Berbaclass said:
I gave him a pretty generous benefit of the doubt at the end of the season as I thought the FA cup win and the way was accomplished looked like progress. In the tactical sense anyway, I thought we played that game really well and was intrigued to see what might happen going forward.

That was a mistake and probably let my emotions get the better of me in all honesty.

I thought at the time he deserved a crack under INEOS and the new structure and I was wrong. No shame in admitting that.

There has been no progress and his arrogance and constant refusal to acknowledge this has just worn me down.

I don't see any scenario where he makes it to Christmas at the moment.

Honestly think if INEOS had anything about them and were ruthless he'd be gone today as he embarrassed us and himself yesterday with both the performance and the bizarrre comments afterwards.
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I totally get that and it's commendable that you explained your thought process.
 
end of this month we have palace (A), spurs (H) , villa (A). its perfectly feasible that we get the run around in at least 2 of those games, at that stage end of september, i think hes gone.
 
peridigm said:
This has been beat to death already but prolonging the inevitable only hampers our next season even more. The writing is on the wall. ETH cannot get a tune out of this squad he has built. There is plenty of talent there. Bruno is a shadow of the player we signed. He used to score goals for fun. The chance creator means nothing if we don't take those chances. Rashford is in a slump that you can't just play out of. ETH has picked his battles with the players. He has new coaches and new players. It's down to him now. We've scored two goals in 3 games and barely got away with a win against Fulham at home. His time is up. Ineos need to put their big boy pants on and make the decision they should have made 3 months ago.
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Bruno isn't back from preseason yet
 
Writings on the wall,just a matter of when and who.Ruud ?
 
Superden said:
end of this month we have palace (A), spurs (H) , villa (A). its perfectly feasible that we get the run around in at least 2 of those games, at that stage end of september, i think hes gone.
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As standards go we should beat all three so if he doesn't 7 points, I can see it.
 
TheNewEra said:
As standards go we should beat all three so if he doesn't 7 points, I can see it.
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He won't be expected to get more than 4 points, and he won't expect more than 4 points himself.

In fact he and his backers will be screaming progress if we win 1 and draw 1 of these 3 games. We lost 4-0 to Palace last season, barely drew to Tottenham and won at Villa despite being second best for all of the game (which should have finished 5-1 to them).
 
crossy1686 said:
Let’s face it, losing the ball is part of a football match. Losing the ball high up the field in your own half or around the half way line shouldn’t automatically result in conceding a goal, there’s still a lot to do. But our fecking shape and positioning every time we give it away means the opposition have a run on goal almost undeterred. It’s fecking criminal.
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Correct - the system and set up leaves us exposed. Players give the ball away all the time. It usually doesn't result in your midfield and defence being completely opened up.
 
I was behind keeping him last season, irrespective of the cup final win i thought he deserved another season. The non footballing stuff he's had to deal with over both seasons is far in excess of what any other manager or club has had to go through and whilst 8th is no where near good enough, i didnt see any other manager doing any better particularly with the footballing structure being so poor and did feel as though he deserved a chance with better infrastructure around him. That said, i could also understand fans calling for him to be removed last season, although i didnt agree.

Yesterday was soul destroying and its difficult to give him any benefit of the doubt any more, the money spent and players at his disposal, it was so hard to watch. The tactics and team structure just doesnt look right, I doubt Ineos would make a change after only 3 games, Sky showed up the next 7 game run-in and i think that will be the point at which a decision will be made. I imagine before the season started Ineos will have set objectives and falling below those objectives will trigger a change which avoids making a decision based on emotion, but the direction very much feels inevitable.

Its a bit of death-by-a-thousand cuts scenario.
 
Sarni said:
He won't be expected to get more than 4 points, and he won't expect more than 4 points himself.

In fact he and his backers will be screaming progress if we win 1 and draw 1 of these 3 games. We lost 4-0 to Palace last season, barely drew to Tottenham and won at Villa despite being second best for all of the game (which should have finished 5-1 to them).
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I've already seen backers claim that our football is slightly better than last season. They'll use last season which was our worst in my lifetime as a comparison to say he's doing alright, even if it's just 1% better. Progress.
 
Oh here we go people feeling sorry for him in the poll morning after, expect to see even more in his favour by kick off at Southampton
 
Superden said:
end of this month we have palace (A), spurs (H) , villa (A). its perfectly feasible that we get the run around in at least 2 of those games, at that stage end of september, i think hes gone.
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I think he is safe up until then but poor results from our next four games will get him fired.
 
ROFLUTION said:
I'd want to sack him asap really, but I think it's only fair to give him at least 10 games where he has the same core and best material at his availabilty to see if his playing style actually has any meaning at all.
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It makes sense during your first season but not the third. ETH is familiar with everyone in the team, the only players that he has never coached for at least 1 year are Zirkzee, Ugarte and Yoro. So if he is a decent manager he should have a solid plan for any combination of player at his disposal otherwise he is useless, the most important contribution of a manager is in a context where things are less than ideal, that's when you know what you actually have as a manager. Also the playing style of a manager should never rely on a specific set of 11 players, it should be ideal for at least 16-17 players and still efficient for 20+ members of the team with adjustments.
If it relies on 11 players then it needs to be binned, especially when it's the third season.
 
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I’ve been ETH out since January so people saying it’s a knee jerk reaction cannot be more wrong.

I wrote this when he got an extension:

Color me surprised. I thought that no matter how good ETH’s season was—or especially if it was this bad—INEOS would have hired their own manager. It’s safe to assume that the FA Cup win and the resulting change in optics saved his job. Fan opinion is fickle, and if he starts racking up losses and poor performances, the pressure will be immense. According to The Athletic, salary talks were held with both Tuchel and RDZ, so it's certainly not as clear-cut as some people think.

He's not my first choice. I believe he's tactically inept (given the 8th place finish and numerous poor performances) and a poor communicator (due to his bad English). His naivety and stubbornness are also major problems. The only reason I see for him still being here is that he essentially rolled over and became their yes-man.

Now it’s up to ETH. He has to prove me and everyone else who’s unconvinced wrong. The losses and poor performances from last season need to be a thing of the past.
 
Surely the fact thread went up 30 pages says there is many of the fanbase who have had enough
 
Danny_ said:
Obviously, the knee jerk reaction is for him to get the sack. But a bit of perspective, it's only 3 games into the season. Also, does anybody think it will change if he does get sacked? How many managers is it now and nothing changes. The players being recruited.
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We know why you want him to get more time try and make the wummery a bit less obvious
 
No news of him being sacked over the international break. What a shame, guess we want to throw this season too
 
Berbaclass said:
Like I've just posted I think it came down to money/PSR restriction at the time.
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Probably that or they couldn't come to a definite conclusion that ETH was solely to blame for last season's under performance and so chose to stick with him for the time being. Hence all the backing in the transfer market, changing most of the coaching staff behind him, revamping the medical staff. Now, any under performance will be down to him(and the players but that's for their own performance threads) as they can say they have provided him with enough support to not suck.


I don't believe that De Zerbi wouldn't jump at the chance to manage us especially after the season he had at Brighton and instead goes to Marseille, if we really approached him. I don't rate him much but that doesn't sound believable at all.
 
Shark said:
I've already seen backers claim that our football is slightly better than last season. They'll use last season which was our worst in my lifetime as a comparison to say he's doing alright, even if it's just 1% better. Progress.
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That's why his job is becoming easier and easier as time passes, the bar for improvement is gradually decreasing so it's not hard to see him being here for another couple of years while still performing horribly.
 
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