Enzo 'Terry' Fernandez | Vice-Captain of Chelsea

Lukaku the first one to United I understand, the one to Chelsea is probably the dumbest and most obvious flop of all time
In hindsight it’s probably the worst ever transfer. But to cut us a little slack, Lukaku has been a dominant goal scorer at Inter just before he moved to us. After his United disaster where he was out of shape and sulking, by the time he was on his way back to Chelsea he had slimmed down and was in the form of his career.

At the time it wasn’t super obvious that he would be a massive flop. Most people thought that even if he didn’t live up to the price he’d at least score a bunch of goals.
 
I mean, anyone who knows anything about South American football could have told you how good Enzo was.
Who exactly was saying at that time that he was 6 months from becoming a 120 million player. Being highly rated and being rated so highly to command one of the biggest transfer fees ever are completely different things.
 
He has talent and looks like a calm player. Historically these big fee signings are very risky but at the same time it means that one of those is bound to become a real success too.
He will have eyes on him more than ever and the criticism will be extremely harsh
 
Might just be inconsistency in their numbers, then? Pogba was £89m according to Beeb. Lukaku £97.5m etc.

Yeah would be nice if they cited a source! Also could be something as silly as not accounting for differences in exchange rates at the time - I had it in my head that Pogba was €‎105m so it seems entirely possible they've just typed that into google now and not bothered looking up the correct conversion rate.
 
In hindsight it’s probably the worst ever transfer. But to cut us a little slack, Lukaku has been a dominant goal scorer at Inter just before he moved to us. After his United disaster where he was out of shape and sulking, by the time he was on his way back to Chelsea he had slimmed down and was in the form of his career.

At the time it wasn’t super obvious that he would be a massive flop. Most people thought that even if he didn’t live up to the price he’d at least score a bunch of goals.

It was just bizarre that you signed him and then utilised him in the completely wrong way.
 
In hindsight it’s probably the worst ever transfer. But to cut us a little slack, Lukaku has been a dominant goal scorer at Inter just before he moved to us. After his United disaster where he was out of shape and sulking, by the time he was on his way back to Chelsea he had slimmed down and was in the form of his career.

At the time it wasn’t super obvious that he would be a massive flop. Most people thought that even if he didn’t live up to the price he’d at least score a bunch of goals.
That's fair. But still. I thought at best he'd be 17/18 Lukaku and it just didn't make sense. To me it was always him just moving to an easier league and having less pressure as the reason for his success at Inter compared to United. So when he went to Chelsea I figured he would at best be 17/18 United version of Lukaku which is still a flop... The most impressive part of that deal is how quickly Tuchel moved on from him tbh. Usually pretty hard to move on from a 100m player.
 
Wasn't he another of Ralf's tips but yeah sickening we didn't have shrewdness to get it done then
I blame FDJ, we badly need a new midfielder and waiting FDJ all summer until he fecked us up. We then quickly move on to another big signing Casemro, who is by the way a great signing. But we simply just let pass the chance to take Enzo for peanuts.
 
So the total fee is obviously very high. But its what £30 million or so up front?

By the time the 5 seasons of extra fees are paid off I doubt he'll be in the top 3 most expensive premier league signings because there will be a bunch of other expensive signings in that time. But we'll have to wait and see on that

For £30 million and then £15 million a season after that for 5 years I can see him being a success. But after 2 or so seasons he's going to have to be outstanding and at the top level of midfielders in this country to justify being at £60 million paid +£15 million more over the next season and onwards. I believe he will do that and then it'll be the last 2 seasons costing £30 million on top of what was already paid that will be the squeeze on his value. At that point even if he's not the most expensive premier league player, a £90-£105 million central midfielder is going to have to be as good as any central midfielder still playing today. So De Bruyne/Kimmich/Casemiro in their prime level.

I got a brain tumour reading that calculation. Since when are we calculating transfers like that . Maguire isn’t that bad this year because what CB can you get for 15 million this year
 
Only reason Pogba got that negative scrutiny was because he was/is a massive celebrity off the pitch. All the old boomers in the media hate when a footballer has personality.

So Enzo won’t get that sort of shit from the media.
Can't discount racism either
 
Who exactly was saying at that time that he was 6 months from becoming a 120 million player. Being highly rated and being rated so highly to command one of the biggest transfer fees ever are completely different things.

Who is making these sorts of specific predictions and why is that necessary? Has every great player ever been highly rated as a teenager?

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/gallery/ranked-50-best-teenagers-world-football

You need only look at something like this to realise it's all a crapshoot...
 
Can't discount racism either

Yep most definitely - there was a lot of shite spouted about Pogba's "pace and power" when his standout quality to me was always elegance.

Think the disproportionate representation of ex-Liverpool players among punditry teams also plays a role, especially when they're typically the loudest and stupidest of the bunch.
 
I blame FDJ, we badly need a new midfielder and waiting FDJ all summer until he fecked us up. We then quickly move on to another big signing Casemro, who is by the way a great signing. But we simply just let pass the chance to take Enzo for peanuts.

Yeah would rate Casa as one of our best midfield signings since Keano which I know is big call,in terms of Fernandez like you say we took eye off ball chasing De Jong and paid for it.
 
Very good young player, but also very overhyped at this point.

CM is maybe the most difficult position to project any young player to become world class. What really separates the top players is tactical understanding and football IQ that generally doesn't really reach its heights until players are in their mid 20s at the earliest. At 21 nobody really knew that guys like Modric, Xavi, Scholes, Iniesta, Pirlo, Kante, or Kroos would become the players they did. When each was 21, there were tons of CMs of similar age that were rated just as highly or higher.
 
In hindsight it’s probably the worst ever transfer. But to cut us a little slack, Lukaku has been a dominant goal scorer at Inter just before he moved to us. After his United disaster where he was out of shape and sulking, by the time he was on his way back to Chelsea he had slimmed down and was in the form of his career.

At the time it wasn’t super obvious that he would be a massive flop. Most people thought that even if he didn’t live up to the price he’d at least score a bunch of goals.
There was no hindsight needed. To bring Lukaku into a team who liked to press high, have good link up and fluid movement was moronic and always going to look as silly as did.

And that's before we get into his huge ego that we were burned by once before.
 
Very good young player, but also very overhyped at this point.

CM is maybe the most difficult position to project any young player to become world class. What really separates the top players is tactical understanding and football IQ that generally doesn't really reach its heights until players are in their mid 20s at the earliest. At 21 nobody really knew that guys like Modric, Xavi, Scholes, Iniesta, Pirlo, Kante, or Kroos would become the players they did. When each was 21, there were tons of CMs of similar age that were rated just as highly or higher.
Very true
 
So the total fee is obviously very high. But its what £30 million or so up front?

By the time the 5 seasons of extra fees are paid off I doubt he'll be in the top 3 most expensive premier league signings because there will be a bunch of other expensive signings in that time. But we'll have to wait and see on that

For £30 million and then £15 million a season after that for 5 years I can see him being a success. But after 2 or so seasons he's going to have to be outstanding and at the top level of midfielders in this country to justify being at £60 million paid +£15 million more over the next season and onwards. I believe he will do that and then it'll be the last 2 seasons costing £30 million on top of what was already paid that will be the squeeze on his value. At that point even if he's not the most expensive premier league player, a £90-£105 million central midfielder is going to have to be as good as any central midfielder still playing today. So De Bruyne/Kimmich/Casemiro in their prime level.

Most transfer fee are paid in installments, very few are paid upfront. Examples are Maguire, Ronaldo (to Madrid).

Also was the fee structure posted anywhere? 5 installments doesn't mean it's done in 5 years at 1 installment per year.
 
So the total fee is obviously very high. But its what £30 million or so up front?

By the time the 5 seasons of extra fees are paid off I doubt he'll be in the top 3 most expensive premier league signings because there will be a bunch of other expensive signings in that time. But we'll have to wait and see on that

For £30 million and then £15 million a season after that for 5 years I can see him being a success. But after 2 or so seasons he's going to have to be outstanding and at the top level of midfielders in this country to justify being at £60 million paid +£15 million more over the next season and onwards. I believe he will do that and then it'll be the last 2 seasons costing £30 million on top of what was already paid that will be the squeeze on his value. At that point even if he's not the most expensive premier league player, a £90-£105 million central midfielder is going to have to be as good as any central midfielder still playing today. So De Bruyne/Kimmich/Casemiro in their prime level.

That's an absolutely ridiculous calculation. Most transfers aren't been paid upfront and he just became what he is. In the top 5 transfer fees of all-time or a whooping €121 million. That's the amount that Chelsea is gonna pay for him, period.

Nobody will say if he is underwhelming in his first 2 seasons, oh wait Chelsea paid only 45 million so far. And rightly so.

Enzo will be a better signing for Chelsea than Lisandro for United.

He should be for that money. He cost Chelsea double what we paid for Lisandro.
 
Now that a step in the right direction has been made in putting the transfer fee in Euros, we need to complete what happens to United transfers by now stating that the value in Euros is actually the value in GBP.

Enzo cost Chelsea 121 million GBP
 
Now that a step in the right direction has been made in putting the transfer fee in Euros, we need to complete what happens to United transfers by now stating that the value in Euros is actually the value in GBP.

Enzo cost Chelsea 121 GBP

I have nearly that much in my wallet right now - sounds like a bargain to me!
 
Who is making these sorts of specific predictions and why is that necessary? Has every great player ever been highly rated as a teenager?

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/gallery/ranked-50-best-teenagers-world-football

You need only look at something like this to realise it's all a crapshoot...

While there's a lot of baloney in that list by whoever came up with it - the top 10 were and are, with only 1 exception (Douglas Luiz), all excellent players and remain near enough the best players in their age group. In fact if you focus on the top 10, those who the compiler of the list would have most likely considered to be dead-certs, then there's a 90% hit-rate - suggesting it's not actually that much of "a crapshoot".


At 21 nobody really knew that guys like Modric, Xavi, Scholes, Iniesta, Pirlo, Kante, or Kroos would become the players they did. When each was 21, there were tons of CMs of similar age that were rated just as highly or higher.

Who are some of these CMs who were rated higher at the time?

The majority of those you mentioned were definitely already on the trajectory to being top-tier midfielders prior to 21.

Kroos was already a first-team starter at Bayern at 20.
Xavi became a first choice for Barca under van Gaal in a title winning season at 19.
Iniesta became a first choice at Barca at 20.
Pirlo made his Seria A debut at 16. There were a few years where he didn't make that big an impact but then he did enough at 21 to convince AC Milan to sign him for a sizeable fee (with him joining a month after his 22nd birthday).

Scholes - debatable - he broke through at Utd from 20-22.
Modric was more unusual in not getting a move to Spurs until 23, but his later rise can partly be explained by starting his career in Croatia, as opposed to a higher profile league. But he was still a starter for Croatia at 21, so wasn't a complete unknown. It did also take him until he was about 24 to start hugely impressing.
Kante did basically come from nowhere, not even playing in the French top flight until 23. But he's more a rare exception, than typical.

I also reckon with wider networks of scouting and increasing availability of data on lower leagues, rare rises like Kante will also become less common.
 
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While there's a lot of baloney in that list by whoever came up with it - the top 10 were and are, with only 1 exception (Douglas Luiz), all excellent players and remain near enough the best players in their age group. In fact if you focus on the top 10, those who the compiler of the list would have most likely considered to be dead-certs, then there's a 90% hit-rate - suggesting it's not actually that much of "a crapshoot".

I think we're more or less in agreement here - it's not that it's hard to identify true talent when it's spotted, but not being on one of these lists or being low-ranked isn't some sort of death-knell for a career.
 
So the total fee is obviously very high. But its what £30 million or so up front?

By the time the 5 seasons of extra fees are paid off I doubt he'll be in the top 3 most expensive premier league signings because there will be a bunch of other expensive signings in that time. But we'll have to wait and see on that

For £30 million and then £15 million a season after that for 5 years I can see him being a success. But after 2 or so seasons he's going to have to be outstanding and at the top level of midfielders in this country to justify being at £60 million paid +£15 million more over the next season and onwards. I believe he will do that and then it'll be the last 2 seasons costing £30 million on top of what was already paid that will be the squeeze on his value. At that point even if he's not the most expensive premier league player, a £90-£105 million central midfielder is going to have to be as good as any central midfielder still playing today. So De Bruyne/Kimmich/Casemiro in their prime level.

So many transfers already are already paid in instalments over a number of years. This isn't new. The fee is the fee regardless of the structure.
 
So many transfers already are already paid in instalments over a number of years. This isn't new. The fee is the fee regardless of the structure.

If they are near the top of that list they're normally not £30 million at the start
 
That's an absolutely ridiculous calculation. Most transfers aren't been paid upfront and he just became what he is. In the top 5 transfer fees of all-time or a whooping €121 million. That's the amount that Chelsea is gonna pay for him, period.

Nobody will say if he is underwhelming in his first 2 seasons, oh wait Chelsea paid only 45 million so far. And rightly so.



He should be for that money. He cost Chelsea double what we paid for Lisandro.

What if he's great for 2 seasons and it only cost them £45 million to that point? Clearly thats a good deal. It doesnt mean that at the end of the 5 years it'll have been a good deal.
 
What if he's great for 2 seasons and it only cost them £45 million to that point? Clearly thats a good deal. It doesnt mean that at the end of the 5 years it'll have been a good deal.

I don't get this. If I buy a new BMW for 50k on finance, I can't go around saying "Look at this amazing car that only cost me 10k". Because that's not true. The car still cost me 50k, even if I've only paid 10k so far.
 
What if he's great for 2 seasons and it only cost them £45 million to that point? Clearly thats a good deal. It doesnt mean that at the end of the 5 years it'll have been a good deal.

What you're describing doesn't really make sense from an accounting perspective - the way the books are structured and maintained doesn't typically reflect the actual cash flow in and out of the club.

If Chelsea didn't have wealthy ownership and actually were limited by the amount of cash on hand, you'd have a point as it might incentivise Chelsea to sell Enzo sooner rather than later. That isn't really the case though.
 
For footballs sake it’s much better if he flops. The money for these players is just stupid. We’re totally not innocent either, but this one really is insane.