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English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Just checked the latest news and it's Rob Key who's being drafted in, not Richard Keys.
What a magnificent summer of cricket . For me it started with IPL (T20) , then the world cup (Odi) and then the ashes . Greatest season of cricket I have enjoyed. Australia were the better team overall so retaining is well deserved . England have lots to improve but they discovered a star in Archer and the whole world realised again what a magnificent cricketer Ben stokes is
No Warner stats are the worst in history by about 40 runs.
Not really seeing a Lyon win over Leach considering he bowled over 140 more overs to only take 8 more wickets isn’t great and over 33 avg is pretty poor. Stokes, Woakes and Overton failure too back up Archer and Broad, added with very inconsistent batting from everyone (nobody passed 30 more than 5 times) cost England, funny/ frustrating thing is without the rain on the 2nd test very good chance that England would have gone on to win.
Lyon's been wank bar the first test:
11 wickets at 46.
Leach has out bowled him in the four tests they've both played.
Massively helped them win that one test though! Not sure same can be said for Leach's in terms of match winning bowling contribution.
Oh ffs
Think Leach has done well enough. Held down an end and taken wickets when he's been expected to (3 for 30 something at Lords and 4 for not many today). Not trying to downplay Lyon's contribution to the first test, but given Leach wasn't in the side it's a bit of an unfair comparison. In the games that they have played together Leach has out bowled him (and Lyon's figures are flattered by 4 wickets after Australia had chucked away this game); they were even more grim before that.
Leach's strike rate sums it up. If he had bowled as much as Lyon did he would have had more wickets. In the 4 tests they both played Lyon has 11 wickets, Leach 12.
In my original post I stated 'Lyon vs Ali/Leach'
ie: Australia's spinner vs England's Spinner. The stats show Lyon to have superior returns, largely because of Ali's terrible first test.
It was not intended as a criticism of Leach specifically, more to say it's one area Australia influenced the entire series more than England.
He hasn't outbowled him, but yeah Leach has done as well as we could have expected him too.
With Lyon it's clear that the English batters have spent ages trying to work out how to play him, and they've found a really good method on the back foot (it's been one of the most impressive things about this series for England actually).
Will be interesting to see what happens with Leach. Can still see England going back to Moeen if he can prove he's sorted the problems that blighted him earlier in the summer. Otherwise we'll have a seriously long tail and that's not really a long-term solution.
I really do think Lyon has been desperately poor for the most part. He's caused the left handers a little bit of trouble when they've first come to the crease, but he's had incredibly helpful conditions at Edgbaston and Old Trafford and he was woefully ineffective in both matches. Sure, England have played him well, but then it's up to you as a bowler to find another way through.
Agree, he needs to find a way through this.
I don't think he's been poor - he's not been sending down full tosses and half-trackers like Mooen in that first test. But England have clearly found a way to play him and other countries will copy it. He hasn't got a doosra, so right-handed batsmen will always have the option of playing him off the back foot unless he finds another tactic.
Do you mean Edgbaston BTW? He got loads of wickets there. Headingley or The Oval definitely helped him though.
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Botham in shorts yesterday was embarrassing. Happy for him to go tbh.
He's been a lazy, boring commentator for most of his career and doesn't seem to care. Get the feeling he's had so many people kiss his arse in his life that he thinks he can do whatever he wants.
Gower should be kept on in my opinion. Surely they're keeping Holding and Lloyd?
Holdings the best. I'd be annoyed if he leaves
Yeah I don't think anyone else is going.
Botham seemed happy go be going, Gower seemed a little bigger though actually. Wonder if he'll go to BBC?
Ah, nah, I meant Headingley - you're right.
And there's levels, aren't there? Mooen was woeful, but I don't think you have to be as bad as that to be poor by the standards of international cricket. If batsmen are going to play him off the back foot because of his overspin then you have to work around it, at the very least play with your length and pace. I think a fair criticism of Lyon generally is that as a result of developing a method to survive on Aussie pitches he's become a pretty one dimensional bowler.
Gower would fit in very well at BBC. He’ll be a loss for Sky, always enjoyed listening to him.
Botham can gladly feck off. Never liked him, added very little & you felt like he never wanted to be there. Great player, awful commentator.
Spot on re Botham the commentator there, well put. As an interviewee he's equally as bad (or maybe even worse) that I've lost count at this point on the number of times he told interviewers the 'I had to choose between professional cricket or football, but I chose cricket ultimately because my old man told me that I was a better cricketer than a footballer' story. Such a bore.
On bolded, it'd be a huge loss if they lose them both. Changes are fine but I won't be too bothered so long as those two, Hussain and Atherton are there.
Yeah completely.
Thing is, he was a great player because he had a freakish level of natural ability. By all accounts he was a crap professional who got pissed all the time and played half his career overweight.
So he's basically been a lazy, selfish prick his whole life and has got by because of a talent he didn't deserve.
To be fair to him though, he has raised a huge sum of money for leukaemia research. No matter how much he's let himself down in his professional life, that is a brilliant achievement.
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Yeah would agree with that. Maybe it won't matter, because he probably won't play on English pitches again in his career, but he should take this as a spur to go back and work on his game.
Puts into perspective the wailing and gnashing of teeth that happened when Smith did his 'disrespectful' impression. Banter, chirping and even a bit of intimation (loved Archer v Wade yesterday for example) between the players is absolutely fine. Leach will find it easy to doff his cap to the man of the series, as he himself is a cult hero and has had a good memorable first Ashes series.
Yeah was just typical media rubbish trying to make something out of nothing. On the pitch I think the series was played well to be fair, a few players giving it to each other like wade & archer yesterday but not like anything has been malicious and outside of having a good go.
I quite like both these teams to be fair, most of the drama seems to come from the old guard now turned pundits who need to give it up already.
Great that.
Funnily enough Ian Chappell was the most annoyed at the amount of chat Wade was getting through, he termed it 'a load of bollocks'
.Ian Chappell is a legend. Also hates BothamFunnily enough Ian Chappell was the most annoyed at the amount of chat Wade was getting through, he termed it 'a load of bollocks'
Interesting article on the BBC website today with the thoughts of Michael Vaughan.
And he makes some very valid points about the future of the England team.
We are changing coach now and it's very important that there is a change of vision as well.
We have spent the last few years gearing up to the World Cup and we won it, which was fantastic. I think to a great extent our team in this format will more or less look after itself for the next 4 years.
As Vaughan says, as soon as the Oval test finished the clock started counting down to the next Ashes down under, with the greatest respect to the teams we play between now and then starting with New Zealand this winter.
Broad will be 35 by winter 2021/22 and Anderson is 5 years older. We've done well to unearth Archer but we really need to find another.
In terms of the batting there are some cabs on the rank but it seems so long ago that we found a genuine batting talent that took to Test cricket like a duck to water.
The general consensus seems to be shove Roy down the order and push Bairstow up and take the gloves off him. I would agree with this as I think it would help both players and allow Buttler to remain where he is in the order.
And he makes some very valid points about the future of the England team.
We are changing coach now and it's very important that there is a change of vision as well.
We have spent the last few years gearing up to the World Cup and we won it, which was fantastic. I think to a great extent our team in this format will more or less look after itself for the next 4 years.
As Vaughan says, as soon as the Oval test finished the clock started counting down to the next Ashes down under, with the greatest respect to the teams we play between now and then starting with New Zealand this winter.
Broad will be 35 by winter 2021/22 and Anderson is 5 years older. We've done well to unearth Archer but we really need to find another.
In terms of the batting there are some cabs on the rank but it seems so long ago that we found a genuine batting talent that took to Test cricket like a duck to water.
The general consensus seems to be shove Roy down the order and push Bairstow up and take the gloves off him. I would agree with this as I think it would help both players and allow Buttler to remain where he is in the order.
Drop both Bairstow and Roy, give the gloves to Butler. End Broad's international career, keep Anderson as the experienced statesman for the next year and get some new guys in.
I wouldn't necessarily drop Bairstow, I would see if a change in batting position helps, along with removing the gloves.
He has shown flashes over the last few years to suggest he can score a lot of runs but admittedly his form is a concern.
Same with Roy, we can't keep bringing people in and dumping them so quickly or we will never find a settled side and that has to be the aim.
I'm surprised by your comments on the bowlers, i.e. suggesting we cut loose 33 year old Broad (who has just taken 23 wickets in the Ashes at 26.7 apiece) yet keep 38 year old Anderson who, as a quick bowler relies heavily on his fitness levels which are only going to go one way at his age. And he's just missed all but half a session of the Ashes through injury.
If any changes need to be made by the incoming staff, they may want to look to the future and say thanks to Anderson for your service but we're looking elsewhere - I'm sure there's a coaching role for him.
They took the gloves off him in Sri Lanka and moved him up the order and he threw his toys out the pram.
You serious about Broad mate? He's just been our best bowler in the Ashes and he's five years younger than Anderson.
I'd keep Broad alongside Archer and try to find a third seamer with genuine pace. If we're going to win in Australia, not to mention the sub-continent, we'll need bowlers with real gas. Wood's a good option but he's a bit one-dimensional and always seems to get injured.
We should be introducing Stone and Mahmood over the next 12 months and, if anyone else emerges from county cricket, we should look at them too. The more quick bowlers we can add to the pool, the better - the Aussies have built up a squad of fast bowlers and it's allowed them to rotate.
I'd also try to rehabilitate Moeen Ali. Leach is great but you can't really have a spinner who bats 10 or 11 unless he's genuinely top-class. Moeen is a genuine batsman and we need that at number 8, to protect the tail.
Bairstow is quality but yeah, it might be worth giving him a breather. Just feels like he unbalances the team somehow, even though that's not really his fault. Let's take a look at Pope and start thinking about who can bat 3, above Root.
Not sure this is the right thread for it but I've seen the front page story about Ben Stokes on The Sun.
What a horrible, nasty , scummy paper The Sun is. I hate it so much, anyone that buys it should be ashamed.
What a horrible, nasty , scummy paper The Sun is. I hate it so much, anyone that buys it should be ashamed.
Anyone read Stokes' statement on his Twitter account about the story in the Sun?
A very dignified response to a story that I can imagine caused a lot of pain for his family. Can't help but really like the guy.
A very dignified response to a story that I can imagine caused a lot of pain for his family. Can't help but really like the guy.
Yes they did and it's not the only time he has done that. Bloke who did my current job before me is now semi-retired and working as a steward for Derbyshire and he's told me stories before about Bairstow sulking when he's got out, throwing his bat around the changing room and being warned by the ground staff.
But ultimately it's not up to him, the gloves and each batting position go to whoever the head coach/ captain want them to and if Bairstow doesn't like it and throws a strop, then drop him from the squad altogether, we aren't talking about juniors cricket.
Yeah I totally agree.
Plus since he got the gloves back his batting has been absolutely appalling. He's averaging something like 18. I know I keep banging on about it but I think he should be dropped, it'd be good in the long run for him anyway.
He needs to go away and sort his technique out, at the minute he's not good enough for Test cricket. He's shown in the past he can do it, he needs to go away and try and replicate that.
Broad's a horrible scrote and an awful influence to have around an upcoming generation of young players. Need to keep them away from his influence.
Anderson's far more level headed and a much better leader and example for players coming through.