English cricket thread

Djemba-Djemba said:
That all would make sense if this was a one off thing for this test but the issue is they've been doing this for years now.

We didn't lose all ten wickets in one session from 1938 to 2016.

We've done it 4 times since, almost 5.

I think having a coach totally uninterested in test cricket doesn't help things.
Click to expand...

Does it happen immediately after a ODI or T20 series? Might be the common link.
 
Sassy Colin said:
You're a right misery guts you are :lol:

Another 20 might be enough?
Click to expand...

:lol: I think I'm justified to be grumpy after watching the way we've batted for the last 2 days. I can't ever remember watching our middle order have as bad a test match as this. Root Moeen and Bairstow have been shocking.

We've added 55 runs since the 8th wicket went down and I have a sneaky feeling that will be just enough for England to scrape to win.

I must be mad to still think England will win..
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
:lol: I think I'm justified to be grumpy after watching the way we've batted for the last 2 days. I can't ever remember watching our middle order have as bad a test match as this. Root Moeen and Bairstow have been shocking.

We've added 55 runs since the 8th wicket went down and I have a sneaky feeling that will be just enough for England to scrape to win.

I must be mad to still think England will win..
Click to expand...

 
Djemba-Djemba said:
He's gone after the Ashes.

He was hired to win the World Cup and we did it so I'm sure the ECB will think its job done.

But our test cricket under him has been just shit. The batting anyway. Any game we've won in the last 5 years stems from Root or Cook managing to get a big score.
Click to expand...
Yeah Bayliss has been poor. But you've also got to factor in the fact that we lost Pietersen, Trott and Prior within a couple of years and Bell's game fell off a cliff. All four of them should have had plenty of years left in them, and had they retired on their own terms we could have groomed replacements.

Watched that new film about the 09-14 England side the other day. You've got to wonder whether all those players could have been handled better.
 
The lack of defensive technique is a massive issue. Somehow there is absolutely no one left who can spend some time on the pitch and leave balls . Stokes is important for that because he does do that and puts a price on his wicket . That Root dismissal today was genuinely embarrassing considering the game situation but it is more a sign of where this England team is at when the captain plays like that
 
The whole England team has been dreadful in terms of batting for way too long - it's not like it's anything new.

The top order in particular is a complete mess and i'm not sure what the answer is. We've pretty much tried all the leading county run scorers over the past few years and they've all been a disaster and found wanting technically against International bowlers rather than generic county trundlers.
 
I can see this test match being Roy’s test career in a nutshell, be full of scores under 10 and 50+ not much between (like his odi career), not a player like Vince or Watson who regularly get 20-30 then get out.
 
JohnnyKills said:
Yeah Bayliss has been poor. But you've also got to factor in the fact that we lost Pietersen, Trott and Prior within a couple of years and Bell's game fell off a cliff. All four of them should have had plenty of years left in them, and had they retired on their own terms we could have groomed replacements.

Watched that new film about the 09-14 England side the other day. You've got to wonder whether all those players could have been handled better.
Click to expand...

I think they were all done at the time they left, tbh. Pietersen was the one who could have batted longer, but his being a cnut sort of put pay to that.

Time will tell but I genuinely think the buck for all England's shit batting stops with Bayliss and his obsession with trying to hit your way out of every rough patch a team gets in. Even Root has steadily got worse in test cricket the longer Bayliss has hung around. My theory is, too, that at least some of the problem with finding opening batsmen is caused by players getting to the England set up and being told they have to play with intent and look to get on top of bowlers rather than occupy the crease. Let's hope England appoint a coach who knows what they're doing (and I'd be very happy if they split the roles I think); less ODI think in Test cricket.
 
Question for English fans... Which would you say is the biggest cause for Englands poor performances in Tests? Red ball, Player quality,conditions, mentality.
 
AJ10 said:
Question for English fans... Which would you say is the biggest cause for Englands poor performances in Tests? Red ball, Player quality,conditions, mentality.
Click to expand...

I sort of answered it above, but mentality. There's no recognition of the fact you sometimes need to sit in and as soon as teams start bowling well and making things tight they all get twitchy and start playing daft shots.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I sort of answered it above, but mentality. There's no recognition of the fact you sometimes need to sit in and as soon as teams start bowling well and making things tight they all get twitchy and start playing daft shots.
Click to expand...

Yeah you're right.

I think they're being told to hit their way out of trouble, which is just all wrong for Test cricket.
 
AJ10 said:
Question for English fans... Which would you say is the biggest cause for Englands poor performances in Tests? Red ball, Player quality,conditions, mentality.
Click to expand...
I think it's a bit of all those things but the quality at the top of the order is a huge issue for me. Strauss, Cook, Bell et al have never been replaced. Roy will be hit and miss but is too loose technically to be relied upon. Burns and Denly look out of their depth. We seem to have tried the heavy run scorers in the county championship and they've all been found wanting technically - Lyth, Robson, Stoneman, Jennings, Vince, Balance - there's a huge difference between facing an international quality bowler and a generic county championship medium-fast.

We have some promising pace bowlers but the lack of spin options is a worry - i think Moeen gets away with it a bit because there's not really anyone putting pressure on him for his spot. He's probably been the safer option in the past due to his perceived ability with the bat but he look like he's completely lost it now ala Broad - a walking wicket so to speak.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Thinking of going for the Lancashire game tomorrow. This team is really good
Click to expand...
Went Sunday
Too good for Durham

Team is strong. Loads of bowling options and still got Jos to add to the batting it if they make finals day

Presume finals day is after ashes.

Maxwell and Buttler batting together could be entertaining
 
EdWeatherall said:
Went Sunday
Too good for Durham

Team is strong. Loads of bowling options and still got Jos to add to the batting it if they make finals day

Presume finals day is after ashes.

Maxwell and Buttler batting together could be entertaining
Click to expand...

Yup finals day is 21st September while last test ends on 16th . Long way to go before that though
 
Curran brothers are absolutely incredible. Tom Curran is nailed on to be a part of the T20 team for the next world cup
 
NinjaFletch said:
I think they were all done at the time they left, tbh. Pietersen was the one who could have batted longer, but his being a cnut sort of put pay to that.

Time will tell but I genuinely think the buck for all England's shit batting stops with Bayliss and his obsession with trying to hit your way out of every rough patch a team gets in. Even Root has steadily got worse in test cricket the longer Bayliss has hung around. My theory is, too, that at least some of the problem with finding opening batsmen is caused by players getting to the England set up and being told they have to play with intent and look to get on top of bowlers rather than occupy the crease. Let's hope England appoint a coach who knows what they're doing (and I'd be very happy if they split the roles I think); less ODI think in Test cricket.
Click to expand...
The reason they were done was that they were either knackered or, in Pietersen's case, pushed out. Plenty of batsmen from other countries continue into their late 30s (Ponting, Kallis, Tendulkar, Sangakkara, Jayawardena etc). You've got to wonder why we can't wring a few extra years out of the good ones we produce.

I'm not saying all four of those guys would be playing now, but they might have tided us over for a while and allowed a properly managed transition.

Agree about the split coaches. In fact it seems like an absolute must. You've also got to hope we find a good batting coach. Perhaps we could think about bringing Cook in to the set-up.
 
paulscholes18 said:
Tom Curran, he was very unfortunate not to even play one game at the World Cup, thought he had a good series vs Pakistan.
Click to expand...
Yeah he was massively unfortunate. Will be around the England set-up for a while and may take over from Plunkett.
 
EdWeatherall said:
Went Sunday
Too good for Durham

Team is strong. Loads of bowling options and still got Jos to add to the batting it if they make finals day

Presume finals day is after ashes.

Maxwell and Buttler batting together could be entertaining
Click to expand...
Yeah got a great bowling attack haven't we. Pretty much international standard. Not sure about the coaches running the show (they seem to make a lot of bizarre calls, the latest being not sending in Faulkner last night) but we've certainly got the talent on the field.

England should pick Mahmood and Parkinson for the limited overs legs of the NZ and SA series. They both look ready to me.
 
JohnnyKills said:
The reason they were done was that they were either knackered or, in Pietersen's case, pushed out. Plenty of batsmen from other countries continue into their late 30s (Ponting, Kallis, Tendulkar, Sangakkara, Jayawardena etc). You've got to wonder why we can't wring a few extra years out of the good ones we produce.

I'm not saying all four of those guys would be playing now, but they might have tided us over for a while and allowed a properly managed transition.

Agree about the split coaches. In fact it seems like an absolute must. You've also got to hope we find a good batting coach. Perhaps we could think about bringing Cook in to the set-up.
Click to expand...

Yeah there probably is, but that solution is to play less cricket and have a less relentless schedule. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon, too much money involved.
 
EdWeatherall said:
Can see Mahmoud being picked. Not sure about Matty Parkinson. A lions tour would seem more likely
Click to expand...
Don't see much difference between him and Rashid tbh. He's probably more accurate already although his googly isn't as effective. Only problem is his batting.

At the very least we should give him a go in the winter, to rest Rashid and take a look at our long-term options. That way he gets experience and can measure himself against top players.
 
182 doesn't sound a lot but it'll be a tough chase.

Overcast conditions, the pitch has something in it for the bowlers and just the mental pressure Ireland will be under being so close to an incredible win.

If they manage it fair play to them. In fact fair play to them whatever happens, they've bossed this match outside of the Roy Leach partnership.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Yeah there probably is, but that solution is to play less cricket and have a less relentless schedule. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon, too much money involved.
Click to expand...
Yep, it's always going to be a problem for us isn't it. We have a short summer window and, like any board, the ECB needs to make as much money as possible during that time. What's more, everyone wants to play England so we're always in demand for lengthy overseas tours. But I do think that the next time we get a good crop of batsmen, we need to find a way to manage them better.

You look back at that England team from 09-14 and none of the batsman was ever rested. It's easy to understand why - that lineup of Strauss-Cook-Trott-Pietersen-Bell-Prior is one of the best England have ever had, and none of the players themselves would have wanted a rest for fear of losing their spot. But the fact that they all retired early suggests that way too much pressure was put on them (Pietersen was ridiculed for saying this at the time but all the players in that new documentary mention the burn-out problem).

Four of those players could still (just about) be playing now and while it's ridiculous to think all four would still be in the side, we could have kept two of them going. How much stronger we'd look now with a top order of Cook-Roy-Trott, for example? Or Cook-Roy-Bell?

We're nowhere near that level of quality at the moment, but let's hope that if we ever manage to find a group of similar talent, we introduce enforced rest periods and give them all the support they need (rather than the Flower regime which seems to have been quite brutal). You can't afford to just fritter away top players when they come along, as we're seeing now.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.