Kohli in limited overs is bang average. I don't mind him in tests considering our success rate. Still I never rate Kohli the captain, anyways there is more to do with that and I don't want to make this thread about that. But one thing Kohli does well is always have a positive body language. Do you think anyone else can do a better job for you guys. How about Stokes?
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
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Root just isn't a good captain and on top of that whether he bats 3 or 4 seems to make no difference, he's regressed as a batsman since he's become captain. I think he averages 16 or something off of balls that would hit his stumps since 2016.
Not sure what @NinjaFletch and @ArmchairCritic say but I can't see it being Stokes. He has too much responsibility already.
Get the feeling they're desperate for Buttler to step up but he's not doing it with the bat at the moment is he.
That is a very good point. In hindsight, this was probably the worst time to play a very well drilled and highly motivated Australian side.
And well done to them. It is perfectly clear that they wanted it much more than this England team.
I personally think all the test captains are pretty meh these days.
However I think criticism of his batting is far too much. He's surrounded by batsman who are not just good test players. He's not Smith who can score centuries every damn time but he's a very good batsman. Not sure why he was the one to change his position to accommodate someone like Denly.
Yep. Who are we going to get as coach though? Gillespie maybe?
What about the criticism about his batting is too much? He's clearly not the batsman he used to be and taking the captaincy off of him might enable him to rediscover his form. That's all anyone is saying here.
You are right about Stokes already having too much responsibilities. Honestly I am not too sure with Buttler. Broad could be a decent stop gap captain for a year. Maybe by then the likes of Buttler or Bairstow can become more mature for Tests. However for now Root may be the best guy to have the captaincy.
Beside the fact that middle order keeps getting exposed to the new ball against one of the best bowling attacks in recent years, before the series started they’d hardly played any red ball cricket all summer thanks to the World Cup and are under cooked. This is still the same England side that thrashed India last summer.
Nah. No Anderson. I suspect England would have won atleast one test had he been playing. He's a monster in these conditions.
They did make Stokes vice-captain again ahead of the series and he is usually one of the guys that stands up when things are getting tough. Rory Burns is the only guy who actually has any kind of a CV as a captain in this side.
..and England must mentally exhausted after the World Cup but the same could be said about the aussies.
Yeah but we got lucky in that series didn't we. The conditions were totally in our favour and we won every toss. Not sure that series helped us in the long term - feels like it papered over a few cracks that needed exposing.
Yeah that's an interesting shout. Wouldn't mind them having a punt on Burns tbh.
Surely Root is going to be sacked after this, he's useless.
Can't see them giving it to Broad. Don't think we've given it to a bowler in my lifetime. Plus you can bet he'd bowl himself all day and review every call off his bowling. Even if the batsman hit it for six.
Thinking of that. Has there been any fast bowler who has made a good captain. But honestly I cannot see him doing any worse than Root. At least taking the captaincy burden of Root may mean Root the batsmen may do well.
The theory is bowlers get so invested in their bowling that they cannot be objective in field settings and executing plans.
Yeah I think that's what all the England-supporting posters in this thread think too Ash. It's not so much that Root is a bad captain - although he certainly hasn't been great - it's that we've robbed ourselves of our best player.
BTW I'd also replace Kohli with Rohit as captain if I was an Indian selector, but that's a different debate entirely
I probably would go Buttler, but it's not an easy choice at all. In absolute terms I haven't been particularly impressed, but in relative terms I think only Woakes (yes, I know) averages more than him since he's come into the side. He is, by the very low standards England have set over the past year, pretty secure. Only Stokes is probably more so.
The problem for Burns, for me, is that he averages under 30 still and two tests ago people would have dropped him. I like him and I like how he approaches the game opening the batting, but he needs to get his feet under the table first.
Buttler might not be the long term answer, but if we get two years out of him where he oversees a change of culture for the side (a la Paine, but more about remembering how to bat rather than how not to be cnuts) then hopefully the picture sans Bayliss will have settled down a bit.
Yeah I think that's what all the England-supporting posters in this thread think too Ash. It's not so much that Root is a bad captain - although he certainly hasn't been great - it's that we've robbed ourselves of our best player.
BTW I'd also replace Kohli with Rohit as captain if I was an Indian selector, but that's a different debate entirely
In limited overs absolutely. Kohli right now has too much power and that is not correct.
Completely agree. Plus hopefully the captaincy will bring out the best in him. As you say, Burns has played a couple of innings and he's been about as convincing as Boris Johnson's speechwriter.
You are saying this based on reputation. On current form, they would not.
And you can’t blame the schedule for the poor performances. It is what it is.
Their problem is they have chosen to focus on T20 and IPL. Else they could have spent the spring preparing for test cricket.
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On this subject, they scheduled the last set of County Championship games in the middle of the T20 tournament
.Even if England manage to win this game, they are going to run into a brick wall if Smith and Labuschagne can get in and bat together. Can see them putting on massive partnerships together.
Despite Archer and Pattinson heroics, Labuschagne is my MoM so far.
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It’s no excuse. Ditto India/WI just started a series, Bangladesh/Sri Lanka just completed an ODI series.
And like you’ve also said, Australia are also here!
Am very impressed at Australia bowler management and how strict they’ve been. Everyone is desperate to see Starc play, yet management are ensuring he is properly rested. They rested Siddle in this game, Pattinson in last game, etc etc. Whereas England are flogging Archer, Woakes and Stokes.
He's been outstanding.
Moeen has decided he can bat again tonight.
England were effectively involved in 4 knockout games including a massively intense final. It was the culmination of several years of planning and they were under pressure to produce. Australia might have been in the same tournament but I do not think they experienced the same pressure.
It is noticeable however how much planning Australia have done for this tour and how they have guys like Bancroft, Head, Labuschagne, Pattinson, Siddle etc who have played a lot of county cricket in their side. As many have said England play like tests are not their biggest priority.
All of that is true, but it should have been planned for, like Australia as you have described.
England de-prioritised test cricket and now suffering for that. I dont think it’s a worthy excuse to hide behind, they can’t claim to be better because they are tired.
Pleased he's playing again, so soon. When he was dropped he was saying he wanted a break from cricket but I guess he decided smashing Warks around sounded more fun.
Couldn't time a simple defensive shot few weeks ago and now Moeen is smashing everything perfectly.
Brilliant stuff.
Brilliant stuff.
It's a nice theory, but I'm not sure we've seen much to suggest this summer has been an aberration for England. Our performance has been par for the course, the bowlers have coped fine and the batsmen haven't (bar Stokes, who had more reason than most to have a hangover) I think it's just a convenient excuse (or false memory perhaps?) for how shit the test side really are. About the only difference is that there hasn't been much to speak of in terms of lower order runs.
I’m just leaving the ground now and was one of those batting performances that makes me love him. Granted this isn’t against an international level bowling attack. We made that run chase look easy.
Don’t remind me we are an awful test side
This article sums it up pretty well. No application or understanding of how to play the test match with 4 days left.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49452516
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49452516
Been very impressed with how Labuschagne has handled himself & played under the pressure.
Aussies should replace Paine with Carey. He might be the captain, but he’s not good enough.
For all the strides england have made in limited overs cricket, they’re going backwards in the Test format.
Aussies should replace Paine with Carey. He might be the captain, but he’s not good enough.
For all the strides england have made in limited overs cricket, they’re going backwards in the Test format.
Sorry, what fecking crime was committed? The hypocrisy is remarkable. Virtually every nation has been found guilty of it - many involving foreign objects on-field. It’s a horrible thing to do - that much is undeniable. But get the feck over it unless you similarly hate any other cricketers found guilty of it - including your own lot. No ‘crime’ was committed, and the punishment was astonishingly harsh - look at the past. This set a new precedent. Continue hating Warner, just don’t act so bitter - it’s a hideous quality.
I'm not suggesting the World Cup is the driving factor here. It's probably worth <1% in the overall scheme of things.
I would love to know how many first class games outside of tests this team has played in recent years. Burns and Denly will have played a fair bit but outside of that you've got a batting lineup that is having to create confidence and rhythm by playing in tests all the time. It's only going to get worse with the advent of the Hundred.
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