I think enough noise will be made to make the ECB worry about their test team. Since the 2010-11 series, England have lost 13 of their last 15 tests here without looking like winning a test at any stage. The MCG pitch resembling a pancake and poor weather in Sydney stopped them losing their last 3 series here 5-0.
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
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I think enough noise will be made to make the ECB worry about their test team. Since the 2010-11 series, England have lost 13 of their last 15 tests here without looking like winning a test at any stage. The MCG pitch resembling a pancake and poor weather in Sydney stopped them losing their last 3 series here 5-0.
Pathetic
England 
Beefy Botham just described England as ''Gutless and embarrassing'' on Aussie TV. He's also called for the ECB to prioritse red ball cricket. I'm not sure you can really prioritise red ball cricket when you have 3 white ball competitions during your summer, one of which is a deadset gimmick and a joke rolled into one.
I know the batting is no good but I’m fascinated by the number of capitulations England have had in the last few years.
Why on earth can’t they even just dig in?
Why on earth can’t they even just dig in?
There is no money in the county championship and hardly anyone watching it - it can't happen.
It’s tricky. I do also think the County Championship structure is no longer fit for purpose but there’s little chance they’ll change that without massive uproar.
Better pitches in county cricket, balls that don’t swing all day, a coach who can help Root read a pitch and plan tactics, the reintroduction of a chief selector and better fielding are all immediate things England can do that will help a fair bit.
Problem is the revenue is in the white-ball format & as much as I disliked The 100, it was a success with the casual fan watching it. There does need to be a revamp of the county championship, but not sure what they can do in the immediate term.
Also, I don’t see why so many players are not playing red ball cricket whilst the Hundred is on. Sibley, Hameed, Burns etc., were all doing nothing in the build up to the India tests at home. You would think there’s a way to get the best 22 red ball specialists still playing whilst the Hundred is still on?
Got to say, leaving England's shit batting aside because it's boring now, that's not the first pitch that's not of Test match quality in this series IMO. You can't get a ball like Joe Root's on day 3, that should be one in a million. They need to give Tests the best chance of going 5 days.
The test series started about a third of the way through the Hundred, so it’s not like they were sat at home, they were busy capitulating against India.
I think you’ve misunderstood my point slightly. For example, Dom Sibley’s last first class game before the India series was on the 11th of July. The Hundred started on 21st of July, the India series started on the 4th of August. So Dom Sibley, who is not involved in the Hundred, has played no cricket for 3 weeks before the first test. The same is true of Rory Burns and numerous other red ball specialists. You would think they could organise some competitive red ball games in these periods to get them tuned up or to keep them in nick. I was only talking about the build up to the series, not about what was going on during. It’s still not ideal mind you.
Even India got a game against a County XI in this period where Hameed was the only player close to the England team that was selected and even though he scored a hundred, he didn’t get selected for the first test.
They should create a 4 day comp between the franchises from the Hundred. Condensed quality, sell the highlights package as part of the package for coverage of the Hundred. Might even get a few spectators in.
It'd face backlash from the counties so it'd be tough, messy and likely vitriolic, but ultimately the county system has failed, and should be replaced as the primary first class system.
Actually I think it’s because they have a wrong definition of “digging in”. Playing long is not about just staying there, it’s to take a few singles and score some runs to relieve that pressure.
even today, the scoreboard wasn’t moving at all.Bat enough balls and you’re bound to get out. Just score something.
Of course but there’s no plan or recognition on how to arrest a slide, once England lose one the rest feels inevitable. They play so many daft shots and don’t apply any pressure back or play out specific bowlers. Just a mess.
The openers actually did very well today, to be fair, the scoreboard was ticking along nicely and you’ll even find posts in here saying how England were on top before the tea break and Australia were genuinely looking quite panicked at that point.
It’s after that it became same old England
I'd go further than that and scrap the entire county championship. Replace it a regional comp of six-eight teams.
The counties might complain but what are they going to do? The majority are loss-making entities and depend on the ECB for support.
As for the structure, go back to the old Sunday League system and alternate between T20 and four-day. Keep the Hundred block as it's clearly financially viable and gives players a chance to practice white ball skills exclusively.
Finally, introduce more 'probable v possible' - type matches and have more A team fixtures. England Lions should be playing all the time, even more than the full England team.
Yeah.
I'd still ditch Burns though tbh. Would do the same with Woakes (away from home), Broad and Anderson - feels like it's time to move on now.
Stick with Crawley and Pope as they've both got talent, look at Brook and Bohannon and introduce some more bowlers with pace (Carse sounds like an interesting prospect).
I would keep him, still think he has alot to offer. Coaches need to work with him on his weaknesses though. Also there are no other decent openers.
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I agree with Ian Botham who said the County Championship needs to be played continuously during the summer not before and after the short form competitions. At the moment it is played like that so batters don't get to bat on dry bouncier pitches. Dibbly Dobbler bowlers like Darren Stevens end up picking up wickets when the weather isn't great. The competition should be run alongside the 20 over and 100 competitions so players not involved in those can play and youngsters can replace the players in those competitions for the 4 day game.
The problem there is that it very rapidly becomes in essence a reserves tournament as anyone who’s anyone will be off at the white ball tournaments and further cementing the problems.
Basically I think the main lesson we all should take is that Darren Stevens not getting picked for England with his record over the last 25 years is an absolute disgrace.
He is a medium pacer and thats it. They would take him apart at test level.
With regard to the first point, there are a number of players not in the 100 and it would give some youngsters a chance.
Blaming IPL
The Stevens point was fairly obviously a joke, but tbf he can’t do worse than the shite we consistently see from the players we do pick.
On the other, it’s the optics. You can say all you want about young players getting a chance, but what happens after they do well one year? They get ‘called up’ to the one day and it makes the red ball game look even more secondary than it does now. We also then get the batters coming through looking even worse because, sure, they’re playing on the right pitches but they’re being bowled at by a bunch of teenagers who aren’t (or very rarely are) anywhere near test level, making it a zero sum game.
Blaming IPL
Funnily Australia probably has more players involved involved in the IPL than England.
It's easy to always blame the IPL. India doing it when their national team fails is somewhat understandable (although silly) but england doing it is just funny.
Ha, wasn't sure if you were being serious. The bowling has been ok, the batting is the issue.
I understand your point however they need to do something so the County Championship is played during a consistent period so added to the front and back of the short form competitions. Whether that's the schedule, I don't know.
Blaming IPL
I love Gower usually but this is the same crap we hear from loads of folk over here, pointing fingers all around because otherwise they have to look at themselves and face very uncomfortable truths that the systems in place to produce cricketers just aren’t up to scratch.
Someone tell him half of the players in that ashes squad did not even feature in the IPL.
Hey, I see people call for Livingstone to get a test spot and he has a very similar career but recent years MUCH worse first class batting average than Stevens, so ya know.
It all does need a serious look and rethink, and I’m really glad Strauss is seemingly heading it up after how successful his white ball review was.
Tbh I think the entire system needs tearing up and getting rid of all of the bias (private school, racial) etc… that we see dominating the game so we can start again but it’s not going to be an easy job and I highly doubt the ECB would actually do something so drastic because of the short term growing pains but alas. I’m fully expecting the failing system to just get a lick of paint and us to be told that it’ll work now before we need our next inquest in 3 years when we lose 4/5-0 in Australia again.
he cant blame the hundred because hes part of that system, so hes blaming the thing that sounds closest to it
IPL has very little to do with English test cricket
IPL has very little to do with English test cricket
Has this been confirmed?
I agree with you on the bias stuff. Still seen as a very elite sport and puts a lot of people off. They definitely need to do something substantial. A sticking plaster won't solve the problem.
Cook mentioned it on the BT coverage earlier which was the first I’d heard, but I’d imagine he’d be in a good position to know even if he accidentally let it slip
Well let's hope that is the case. Get someone who knows how to succeed at test cricket.
I see no harm in the county championship continuing at the level below to some extent (and also don't see how it could be prevented, unless the counties were fully amalgamated into the new franchises, they cant force counties to close and running their own comp). Whether the county championship would then lose first class status I don't know, or maybe be adjusted to 3 day games like minor counties. I expect either way the clubs would struggle financially, but they also own prime real estate in the test venues, and would be required to develop players to progress to the franchise system, so there would likely need to be some level of amalgamation with the regional franchises. A few of the smaller counties might have to become non professional.
Personally I see a top tier of the franchises playing all formats, but smaller number of teams so condensed quality. A second professional, first class tier below of the strongest counties, and below that a third, semi-pro, non FC status tier containing some of the smaller counties who can't remain professional, and perhaps some spaces for the better minor counties sides. Franchises could either sign players for the whole season or just individual comps, allowing them to play at the level below if unpicked and it still be a high quality.
As for number of franchises, I do think 8 might be too many. I enjoyed the Hundred despite being sceptical at first, but I thought there were too many games and I started to lose a bit of interest towards the end, plus there were a few players involved that were not at the same level. I can't quite get 6 teams to work, so personally I'd consider doing just 4 franchises of super condenses quality: Northern and Manc combining as one Northern franchise (essentially Lancs, Yorkshire and Durham), the two current London franchises combining as one Greater London side (Surrey, Middlesex, Kent, Essex), the two current Midlands franchises as one (Notts, Leicestershire, Derbyshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Northants) and then the Southern/Welsh franchises merging to form a South-Western team (Somerset, Gloucs, Glamorgan, Hampshire, Sussex). Super condensed quality, the best domestic players all competing to prove themselves for England selection.
With the format proposed, the aim should be for England players to play as many of the franchise games as possible given the international schedules, as there are few of them, and not be dropping back to the 2nd tier for games (unless it's as part of coming back from injury and building fitness). Say home and away in each comp, that's 6xred ball, 6x50 over and 6x100 ball games. Like you said, I'd do the format of red ball games during the week and then the 50 over comp at the weekend, with a block in the middle for the Hundred. In total, Franchise cricket would only take up less than than half of the playing calender, but it would be high, condensed quality. Franchise players who don't play for England would also compete the remainder of the season at the 2nd tier level, and likewise, the 2nd tier players who don't get a game once the franchise players are back could be loaned to sides in the 3rd tier for game time - essentially creating a trickle-down system of quality. It might also be worth the 2nd and 3rd tiers both competing together in the T20 comp, as its essentially the only comp at county level that has big attendances.
Note: after typing this all up I have realised a way to make it 5 or 6 franchises, but I cba to edit this long post, and the details would remain essentially the same whether 4, 5 or 6 franchise teams. There'd also be the option to have 8 franchise teams for white ball, but have the red ball as just 4 franchises. I'd also consider having a link between the franchises and counties, eg the London franchise could only sign players from the London counties. Not sure that fits with the auction format, but I found the auction pretty gimmicky anyway.
Just read somewhere he is a commentator with PSL as well. Can see the bitterness now and whyhe specifically targeted IPL. Very childish if you ask.