England vs Iceland

I really don't agree with this. They were a team ultimately without a plan and for that you have to look to your leaders. Clearly no leadership from the manager and, watching that second half, none on the pitch either. They went to pieces and didn't know what they were supposed to be doing and whilst that can look like players don't care it's more that they are just lost. You could tell that as that second half wore on they were already envisaging the headlines but what do you expect from a team that was sent out by a man who already had a resignation letter in mind (or so it seems)

It's not about quality that's for sure and you're right they should really be making the semis. That would be a natural level I think and to go beyond that they would have to play above themselves.
I think Jermaine Jenas summed it up very well on BBC, he said Hodgson was just picking a team, hoping for the best and that someone would produce the goods on the day. You could almost see him sitting on the bench with his fingers crossed, praying for somebody to step up. Playing completely without a plan so is it any wonder the players seemed unable to put in performances when they were so lacking in direction. They were all just hoping one of the others would produce a moment or two of magic and they would squeeze into the next round.
That might work up to a point, but when you are faced with better teams who stick to a plan it is almost certain you will be found out.
The last time I saw an England manager looking so utterly lost was Graham Taylor in the 90s.
 
there's just something wrong with the whole england set up.
We're not blessed with all-time greats but we do have a good bunch of talented, relatively young players (just like we did under hoddle and sven)
And yet when they come together for England they are seemingly unable to perform.
No matter the manager, no matter the players, no matter the opposition England choke time and again on the big stage
Clearly there's been management issues and we've picked a few dodgy ones but it goes further than that too imo it can't just keep failing so consistently and no internal reworkings be carried out. You could see the players suffocating last night, they were so totally bereft of confidence and completely out of ideas, they were scared shitless it was embarrassing.
 
I wish Lingard was selected for England so he could have given us the inside track by filming the team bus on his phone on the way back to the hotel :lol:
 
Laughing my head off at England & the over-reaction. They lost a game of football to a better set-up, better drilled & fitter team. We had a clueless manager who knew how many games he had to arrive at a functioning team, but still fluffed it.

Good on Iceland. A lesson won't be learned by the FA. Blame lies squarely with them for me, and the manager. The team looked spent, particularly Kane. Rashford brought some energy, but for 5 minutes? Really Roy?!!

It's not an over reaction... as your following sentence right points out why it isn't an over-reaction.

That should never happen.
 
It's not an over reaction... as your following sentence right points out why it isn't an over-reaction.

That should never happen.

Maybe England should never lose against a team like Iceland, yet Lagerbäck has not lost against England once in the seven games he's faced them. Sorry, but this is not a fluke.
 
Remember how happy England fans were when Iceland scored that winner v Austria in the last min?

England will never do well as they do not play as a team .You watch them play and you see 5/6 club players etc ,you watch Italy you see 11 players playing as a team .

There are too many players in England that don't want to pull together and be all for one ..they want the glory themselves .
 
I really don't agree with this. They were a team ultimately without a plan and for that you have to look to your leaders. Clearly no leadership from the manager and, watching that second half, none on the pitch either. They went to pieces and didn't know what they were supposed to be doing and whilst that can look like players don't care it's more that they are just lost. You could tell that as that second half wore on they were already envisaging the headlines but what do you expect from a team that was sent out by a man who already had a resignation letter in mind (or so it seems)

It's not about quality that's for sure and you're right they should really be making the semis. That would be a natural level I think and to go beyond that they would have to play above themselves.

Making the semis a natural level for this group of English players? How so? Apart from Germany, Spain and France who have much better players, you have teams like Italy, Belgium, Croatia, Portugal, etc. Quarters is the limit of this generation. England have been very average in big tournaments since 1996. Even Turkey have been more successful, let alone Portugal...
 
We absolutely shat it last night with about 30mins to go, you could see any confidence they started the tournament with ebb away.
 
Maybe England should never lose against a team like Iceland, yet Lagerbäck has not lost against England once in the seven games he's faced them. Sorry, but this is not a fluke.

It's not a fluke - the best team won by a mile, but... in this scenario, Iceland shouldn't be the best team.
 
We absolutely shat it last night with about 30mins to go, you could see any confidence they started the tournament with ebb away.

That's the problem when you only have a handful of successful senior players in the squad. Rooney, Smalling, Cahill and Hart? And the bigger problem is that they are all bang average right now.

We may bang on about the underachieving England side that contained the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Cole, Rio, Terry etc. but this team is nowhere near that level.
 
It's not a fluke - the best team won by a mile, but... in this scenario, Iceland shouldn't be the best team.

Lagerbäck's teams have always been the underdogs against England, however, he knows English football very well. Give him 11 players that fight for 90 minutes and stick to his plan, and the English seem incapable of defeating him.

As the poster above mentions, Lagerbäck has faced far better English national teams, and never lost once.
 
From reddit:

'Roy Hodgson is watching this game like a cow watching a train pass by. He has no idea what is happening.'
 
I struggle to blame Hodgson in a way because he has such a bad record as a manager it is stupid to expect things from him. I saw something on the bbc comments which summed it up well - 'if you put a monkey in charge of a zoo, you can't blame the monkey when things go tits up. The blame lies with who put him there.'

There is no escaping the fact Hodgson is not a successful top flight manager, same goes for Mcclaren, how the hell are these guys walking into the most prestigious job in English football? People are now mentioning Gareth Southgate for f*cks sake. Last time I checked his best achievement was getting Middlesbrough relegated!!

I don't care if our manager is English, European or from mars as long as we play with some kind of belief and actually look like we have a clue what we are doing. LVG is a free agent....
 
I struggle to blame Hodgson in a way because he has such a bad record as a manager it is stupid to expect things from him. I saw something on the bbc comments which summed it up well - 'if you put a monkey in charge of a zoo, you can't blame the monkey when things go tits up. The blame lies with who put him there.'


They really compared him with a monkey in a zoo? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
The Sun gave Rooney an 8 and Kane a 7 in their player ratings.

I'm not sure who lies most anymore, the press or politicians.
 
I agree with a lot of what is being said, but reporters are now banging on about their thoughts and views on everything, they're not pundits and nobody is asking for their opinions and shit jokes. They're supposed to be reporting facts and what respected people within the game are saying. Really winds me up, they actually think they're celebrities.
 
Thought most if not all of the English players looked terrified yesterday during the second half.

This manifested in the complete lack of composure and calmness in their play.

This was particularly evident in Kane, Sterling and Ali.

They could not handle the expectation and pressure of playing for England.

Kane looked on the point of tears when the camera was on him in the second half. His performances this tournament have been beyond poor he has legitimately looked like an amateur player. His free kicks were unbelievable.

I am an average Sunday league player and I can honestly say I have never struck a free kick as poorly as Kane did numerous times in the second half.

There is a different mentality required to play for England. Rashford showed he has it, Kane at this moment does not.

England should select players who are steely mentally, who dont give a shit what the press might say after the game.

Some supposed lesser players should have gone with England who can handle this situation.
 
I still believe in these players. It's a young team and people are being far too short sighted with their assessment of players like Kane and Alli. You can't rate them based on four games under a terrible manager, after being consistently excellent in one of the worlds toughest leagues.

If the FA hire a competent manager (which they won't), someone like Bilic for example (the next manager can't be English, because there is NO ONE with the credentials), then this generation has a chance. Unfortunately they'll go for someone like Pardew or Southgate purely looking at nationality and not skill set, and England will have a shit World Cup.
 
Not sure anyone has commented, but cant believe Barkley never got any minutes. i am not his biggest fan, but at least he trys to penetrate the defense, not constant side to side passing. Vardy Rashford and Barkley all players with directness, all should have been brought on with at least 30 minutes to go

Was Dier injured or was bring on Wilshere a tactic change by Woy..?
 
If England had ever shown an ability to learn from their mistakes I'd be tempted to say that losing now instead of against one of the big boys could be a blessing in disguise. Whenever things go tits up there's always been a tendency to say that the players simply aren't as good as everyone thought and that they played to their level. I'm not saying there's no truth in that but no one is going to argue that Iceland have a better squad of players, yet somehow they were the better team.

There might be something in the mentality argument but it's down to the coaching staff predominantly. They need someone to come in with a clear idea of how they want to play and they need to be strong enough to leave out the 'better' players in favour of those who will fit the team's style. I don't know who that is, but it doesn't matter because the FA will pick some ex-England player with no success at club level who'll come in and pick teams based on nothing but who he deems are the best 11 English players.
 
I don't care if our manager is English, European or from mars as long as we play with some kind of belief and actually look like we have a clue what we are doing. LVG is a free agent....
He's a probably a bit tired of trying to get English players play with their head. Of course Hodgson is not the kind of manager who you could recognize just by watching his team play for a few minutes. He's more the kind that the whole English punditry wants, just put the best players in their natural position and defenders will defend, strikers will strike etc an wait and see what they'll come up with on the pitch.

To be successfull these days (the last 50 years actually) you need a manager to be much more of the kind that forges and instructs a team. But are English players 'trainable' enough for a manager like that? Germans changed their style of football also, about 10 years ago, but if you tell a german your plan and his role in it, he will do it. With an English player, wouldn't his instinct take over?
 
The Sun gave Rooney an 8 and Kane a 7 in their player ratings.

I'm not sure who lies most anymore, the press or politicians.
Yes, i laughed at the ratings for the entire team, no-one deserved more than a 5, Rashford a 6 maybe he looked lively but had zero time to make a real impact.
 
To be successfull these days (the last 50 years actually) you need a manager to be much more of the kind that forges and instructs a team. But are English players 'trainable' enough for a manager like that? Germans changed their style of football also, about 10 years ago, but if you tell a german your plan and his role in it, he will do it. With an English player, wouldn't his instinct take over?

Yh I also think having watched almost every game at the Euros our technical ability looks really poor. Basic things, which we take for granted, like a good first touch, winning freekicks when under pressure (vital at this level), passing with speed and shocking decision making (Harry Kane lining up a freekick with every single person watching knowing he would not score comes to mind).

Playing for England should be the highest honor for any player and we are simply a group of individuals that think we are a lot better than we are. Choose a manager with a system and play players who fit that system. If the players can't/won't adjust, drop them. Stop picking players on the club they play for and pick on form.
 
To be successfull these days (the last 50 years actually) you need a manager to be much more of the kind that forges and instructs a team. But are English players 'trainable' enough for a manager like that? Germans changed their style of football also, about 10 years ago, but if you tell a german your plan and his role in it, he will do it. With an English player, wouldn't his instinct take over?

I agree with your post.

But, for a good educated player, his "instinct" is his role and the tactics from the team he play for.

English players are weak educated, cause their are coming out of a country where the worst youth managing is, and from a league which is tacticly the poorest of the big leagues, and which is also to blame to have an system what is the worst for their own youth. They also have less international experience, have a look at the results PL-teams get in europe. Adding this to the fact that also education for coaches are poor in England this is the result since years. Can you imagine one english player who would be in another league like La Liga or the Bundesliga and is going be there a topplayer? Can you imagine only one english coach who would rock a big league and having success in europe ,too? Me not. While spanish and german and italian players and coaches (and even players from little countrys) work everywhere due to their level, this is not happening for their english counterparts.
 
Don't think it's a quality on the ball issue with England.

1. No width
2. Shoehorning players
3. Tactically poor/Suspect coaching (Iceland have a little movement where they try and score from a throw in - did it in each game yet England were unprepared).
4. Back-line not talking - if you look at the marking for each goal... it's shocking. None of them are stepping up and taking the ball player one on one and nobody is moving the line to follow play/threats, they were static
5. Mentality/Pressure. Started the game moving the ball really quickly, Stirling made a positive run and got a penalty pretty much immediately. Then from going behind they looked like a mix of zombies when picking passes and headless chickens when shooting.
 
Ive read that the ratings /viewing figures (?) for this game in island were 99%.
:lol: just great.
 
The Sun gave Rooney an 8 and Kane a 7 in their player ratings.

I'm not sure who lies most anymore, the press or politicians.
8 out of what?
The Beeb gave every one a four. They didn't give Rashford a rating, presumably cos he wasn't on the field long enough, but did say that he was possibly MotM for ENG.
 
One of the most frustrating things was that (in the second half especially) no player seemed to have the ability to take someone on and beat them. Rashford did this about three times in the few minutes he got, why was this change not made sooner?

Sure, Rooney had a poor second half, but I think it should have been Sturridge to be substituted, with Vardy on for Sterling earlier than it happened (though personally I think Rashford should have been on at the hour mark for one of the wide forwards).

The management from Roy this tournament was very similar to LvG's this season at United, extremely frustrating and often absolutely illogical. It's as if he thought we would just breeze past Iceland no matter what side he picked and chose this game as a way to up the fitness levels or form of players he shouldn't have even taken in the first place. Yes, Jack Wilshere is a tidy player but there was no way he should have gone - he was as bad as anyone in the whole tournament in his first start and shouldn't have been brought on last night to try and rescue a game. Obvious United bias, but if you're taking three CB's and Diet to cover then surely the logical choice to cover him is Michael Carrick?

Sturridge had the impact against Wales, but I think everything else he did was average and should have been benched for Iceland, although he shouldn't have gone either. Sterling was just poor and only started as Roy thought we could cruise this game.

A tactical shambles.

Probably all pretty moot as we'd have lost to France anyway.
 
Nothing in the first 3 games gave Roy any clue there was a poor performance lurking under the surface, says Roy.

That Russia 1st half seems a long time ago now.
 
I agree with your post.

But, for a good educated player, his "instinct" is his role and the tactics from the team he play for.

English players are weak educated, cause their are coming out of a country where the worst youth managing is, and from a league which is tacticly the poorest of the big leagues, and which is also to blame to have an system what is the worst for their own youth. They also have less international experience, have a look at the results PL-teams get in europe. Adding this to the fact that also education for coaches are poor in England this is the result since years. Can you imagine one english player who would be in another league like La Liga or the Bundesliga and is going be there a topplayer? Can you imagine only one english coach who would rock a big league and having success in europe ,too? Me not. While spanish and german and italian players and coaches (and even players from little countrys) work everywhere due to their level, this is not happening for their english counterparts.
I watched the match on Belgium tv yesterday, who have actually quite good football reports and analysis, but they are not even close in arrogance to the Dutch when it comes to management history, education and development. At half time one the pundits said that Hodgson was an oldfashioned English manager who would do exactly as they learned on the Belgian managers education in the fifties: one sub at half time and wait a quarter of on hour to see how it works out, and then the next sub in the 60th minute. I'm not saying this is a bad rule in general, but if you have a manager who gains an advantage by what he can do and who reacts to an unexpected scoreline, he won't be as predictable and be capable of more and different decisions.

Yh I also think having watched almost every game at the Euros our technical ability looks really poor. Basic things, which we take for granted, like a good first touch, winning freekicks when under pressure (vital at this level), passing with speed and shocking decision making (Harry Kane lining up a freekick with every single person watching knowing he would not score comes to mind).
When players feel the pressure the simplest things can go wrong. That they're bad at passing shouldn't really be surprising, because a bit of a passing game gets booed when it's not immediately perfect going forward. I know a lot of criticism on Utd's style of play was justified, but in England people get very impatient with passing very quickly, while on the continent, they get impatient when a team can't string a few passes together. So it gets very difficult for players to develop themselves in neat passing, especially from the back.

Playing for England should be the highest honor for any player and we are simply a group of individuals that think we are a lot better than we are. Choose a manager with a system and play players who fit that system. If the players can't/won't adjust, drop them. Stop picking players on the club they play for and pick on form.
But finding the players for a good system will be difficult. I think it's now almost 15 years ago that I heard Alan Hansen complaining about a Bulgarian defender playing a pass into the half space with the outside of the boot over 40 yards, and England not having defenders like that. Does England have any defenders that have ever used the outside of the boot for anything else but a foul now? Of course their fist task is just defending, but if English managers don't pick players who can play a bit too and therefore compromise a tiny bit on pure defending qualities, you can never play modern football.

Imo the national football team is always the reflection of a national football culture. You can't just put an alien style on top of a whole football culture. The new style of Germany that emerged in it strong form only the last few years started after the desastrous euro 2000 for them. It was the German association's decision and it was a seperate decision from hiring the manager, they started with the youth academy's, their leagues and manager's education back then. And I'm afraid the punditry is part of the football culture too, or at least a reflection of it. If the reasoning from people like Shearer, Soeness etc. gets accepted as sensible by English football in general, I'm afraid it's going to be very hard for the FA to change things for the long term.