England | right wing knuckle draggers on the streets

Chipper said:
You're definitely right about it being difficult on a football forum!

I suppose in a way I'm saying that I think that if you were to add up all the parts of my identity when it comes to what I feel I am etc. then it can only ever come to 1 (the whole) or 100%. No person can be more than a sum of 1. I do take on some of my dad's side of the family as part of my personal identity. So if I'm acknowledging that I feel that, in a way I cannot consider myself exactly the same as someone who who doesn't have any of that in their identity. Their's is 100% one thing, whereas mine is less than that. In that sense I'm not just as British as anyone else, some will be more British than me, some less. I do not feel I can be 100% British and add the part that comes from elsewhere on top of that as it's more than 100% at that point and it doesn't make much sense to me. I don't mind saying some are more British than me when it comes to that at all.

In terms of legal matters, the way I'm treated and everything like that of course I hope to be treated equally and I want that for all for all people. That's a different realm or sphere to me I guess. Again, I've never faced any racism or anything like that and as you rightly point out that's not the same for all people. The most I've ever had is terms of being different when it comes to that is people commenting on my unusual last name and not in a derogatory way 99% of time although althought there's been once or twice when there was mcokery rather than any nastiness. Very rare though, and only minor. I can't say I've been through anything like some of the people you've listed there from different backgrounds or the nurses. I merge in a lot as you put it. I merge in more than someone who has come from Poland or Ukraine in recent years who may stand out because of their accent and in turn they may merge in more than Somalis, Ghanians, Chinese or Bengalis or people who a have one parent from one of those backgrounds.

The inconsistency I was talking about that they're only referring to the second of these larger pararagraphs I've typed here when they say that everyone is just as British as Everyone else. Probably just me nitpicking on people's choice of language, ignoring context although clarity always helps. It's all done from a good place I feel but saying I'm just as British as anyone else either erases a little part of my identity in my mind, or gives me that extra thing. 100% British plus extra so I'm 110% or 150% of a person which like I said doesn't makes sense to me if we're talking about it from the point of view of the first paragraph.

One way round all that might be to question what identity is or means, write it off as nothing, and some do indeed try to deconstruct Britishness or Englishness in particular as something that doesn't really exist. I've seen that plenty of times online. If people are going to do that I think it would only be fair to to deconstruct the part of people's idenitites that don't come from the UK for balance but that's never done in tandem by the same people. As such as I see them as disingenous. If writing off Britishness as an identity because there were Saxons, Normans, Celts, Jutes etc. which I've seen often, then one could easily write off the identities of people who ackowledge their background from countries whose borders were drawn up by Britain as an easy example. I don't want that, people naturally have an affinity with their heritage - some more than others, it's a personal thing.
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I think perhaps the biggest fundamental disagreement that we may have is that national identity is a bottle to be filled up, with a finite space for volume allowed.

I see it more....like a coat I guess? Cheesy I know. Even if I have 2 coats and someone else has 1, we're both still wearing 1 coat whenever we go out.

Similarly those people I know who really have this down dont see it a zero sum game, with one identity taking away from the other. They relish the opportunity to participate and engage with the different facets (coats) of themselves and their ability to move between cultures.

Of course some struggle a lot with it and some don't engage with the culture of their adopted home at all (and we can discuss the reasons for till all day long I'm sure).
 
what kickstarted these riots?

had no idea UK was this Islamophobic, had a chance to move there a couple of years ago glad I didn’t take it.
 
Suv666 said:
what kickstarted these riots?

had no idea UK was this Islamophobic, had a chance to move there a couple of years ago glad I didn’t take it.
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3 young girls were killed in a knife attack on a children’s dance class, and some assholes on Twitter started saying the attacker was a Muslim migrant who had arrived in the country in a small boat last year.

All of which was incorrect and made up, but sparked the racist knuckle draggers into having an excuse to go and cause trouble.

As for the country being Islamophobic, whilst it’s definitely a big problem we can take solace in images like this:

 
Rado_N said:
3 young girls were killed in a knife attack on a children’s dance class, and some assholes on Twitter started saying the attacker was a Muslim migrant who had arrived in the country in a small boat last year.

All of which was incorrect and made up, but sparked the racist knuckle draggers into having an excuse to go and cause trouble.

As for the country being Islamophobic, whilst it’s definitely a big problem we can take solace in images like this:

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ah the typical dumbfecks
Glad to see normal people standing against these racists.
 
VorZakone said:
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A good portion of the people arrested will be coming from grim situations, with mental health issues or alcohol/substance abuse problems. I reckon we'll see quite a few of these kinds of stories.

The frustration is that the likes of Farage and the Daily Mail headline writers will be walking away untouched, as if none of this is on them. Maybe OFCOM can insist GB News change their name to something more fitting but I doubt we'll even get that.
 
Rado_N said:
3 young girls were killed in a knife attack on a children’s dance class, and some assholes on Twitter started saying the attacker was a Muslim migrant who had arrived in the country in a small boat last year.

All of which was incorrect and made up, but sparked the racist knuckle draggers into having an excuse to go and cause trouble.

As for the country being Islamophobic, whilst it’s definitely a big problem we can take solace in images like this:

Click to expand...


I was so proud of Bristol, a city I live not far from. The previous Saturday, there was some rioting by the so called far right.
But last week, instead of further riots which had been predicted by the police, it was replaced by thousands of ordinary people in a huge anti riot march.
That was a true reflection of feeling by the majority about immigrants. Well done people.
 
jojojo said:
A good portion of the people arrested will be coming from grim situations, with mental health issues or alcohol/substance abuse problems. I reckon we'll see quite a few of these kinds of stories.

The frustration is that the likes of Farage and the Daily Mail headline writers will be walking away untouched, as if none of this is on them. Maybe OFCOM can insist GB News change their name to something more fitting but I doubt we'll even get that.
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Bound to. The worse someone's situation or general outlook, the more chance they'll get dragged along by the gutter media and agitators online.
 
jojojo said:
A good portion of the people arrested will be coming from grim situations, with mental health issues or alcohol/substance abuse problems. I reckon we'll see quite a few of these kinds of stories.

The frustration is that the likes of Farage and the Daily Mail headline writers will be walking away untouched, as if none of this is on them. Maybe OFCOM can insist GB News change their name to something more fitting but I doubt we'll even get that.
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Yeah. The ones I've seen who have been convicted so far have mostly been fairly pathetic individuals, lashing out due to their own circumstances.

The bigger danger IMO is the agitators like those you named, but also the many many participants online. Thousands, maybe millions. The ones who aren't stupid enough to directly say something that will be arrest-worthy, but are saying things which are close to it AND factually inaccurate AND logically flawed AND hypocritical. Ive been reading twitter or the first in ages during this past week and it's so, so bleak. I think about commenting and correcting people, but there's just so many inaccuracies it would be impossible to be more than the tiniest drop in the ocean.

My hope is that someone, or some people, in a position of power/status can reach across to these people and get them back on track. Writing them off as a lost cause is not beneficial IMO, and sanctioning/cancelling them all is not possible, there's MILLIONS of them. Daily Mail and Farage etc is only one tier of it, and they are careful to not break the law and present a (thin) facade of respectability, then there's multiple content creators/influences who are more provocative and spread it to millions of people, then a good % of those comment on it (with even wilder inaccuracy and sensationalist takes than the tiers above them), and then it filters down to the small % who are vulnerable, stupid and/or reckless enough to physically act upon it. I emphathise for the vulnerable ones at the bottom because they are fed this nonsense that they don't comprehend and don't have the skills to deal with. You can include children in that too, if they have parents or older siblings feeding them this stuff when they are young, impressionable and not cognitively developed enough to navigate it. But also the mentally unwell.

Although that's not to say there's not also a small percentage of thugs who are on the front line of physical and criminal violence, who aren't savvy, tactical and ideologically driven. There definitely is. Unfortunately they're harder to catch because they are prepared and take precautions not to be caught.
 
Lots of bots and far right agitators from outside the UK like the US, Israel and other European countries were heavily involved in fanning the flames and pouring fuel on the fire.
 
Buster15 said:
I was so proud of Bristol, a city I live not far from. The previous Saturday, there was some rioting by the so called far right.
But last week, instead of further riots which had been predicted by the police, it was replaced by thousands of ordinary people in a huge anti riot march.
That was a true reflection of feeling by the majority about immigrants. Well done people.
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I visited Bristol for the first time a few weeks ago, so I think this can all be attributed to me, overcoming years of the place having it’s only association being @Pexbo
 
Rado_N said:
I visited Bristol for the first time a few weeks ago, so I think this can all be attributed to me, overcoming years of the place having it’s only association being @Pexbo
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Like all big cities, there is good and not quite so good things about it.
But the response by so many ordinary people to those thugs was definitely one of the really good things. They reminded us that our city and our streets belong to us all and not the minority who just want to wreck everything.

Edit.
Hopefully Pexbo will agree.
 
WeePat said:
Lots of bots and far right agitators from outside the UK like the US, Israel and other European countries were heavily involved in fanning the flames and pouring fuel on the fire.
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Been noticing an absolute flood of racist commentary under Youtube videos of British people of colour recently and been taken aback by how much race-based resentment there is over there. Was pondering it literally moments before I opened this thread and it suddenly dawned on me that maybe a lot of them are bots.

It sounds like it's actually pretty well established they are? :lol:
 
africanspur said:
I think perhaps the biggest fundamental disagreement that we may have is that national identity is a bottle to be filled up, with a finite space for volume allowed.

I see it more....like a coat I guess? Cheesy I know. Even if I have 2 coats and someone else has 1, we're both still wearing 1 coat whenever we go out.

Similarly those people I know who really have this down dont see it a zero sum game, with one identity taking away from the other. They relish the opportunity to participate and engage with the different facets (coats) of themselves and their ability to move between cultures.

Of course some struggle a lot with it and some don't engage with the culture of their adopted home at all (and we can discuss the reasons for till all day long I'm sure).
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Completely understand mate.

I just always saw things the other way I suppose. Even the language that many use, saying they're half Irish, a quarter Indian, half Nigerian etc. It always made me think that if you're half something then you can't be fully anything and that it's not a bad thing, merely a truth.

I wouldn't attempt to impose that on anyone although it does seem very logical to me. It would of course, otherwise it wouldn't be how I think in the end, and it's how I think of my own identity. I'm not as British or English as others in my own mind and wouldn't say I'm 100% so even though I'm born and raised here, and don't stand out in any particular way as being different as you pointed out to me the other day.

It doesn't make me or anyone else who may stand out to differing degrees less of a person and shouldn't lead to them being treated differently in law or by other people. There's always the fear people will be, and it does happen, could even be part of the reason why more people don't see things in the same way I do. It can and does lead to othering, and if that wasn't a risk then who knows?

I see things as more matter of fact or mathematical, but like to believe it doesn't have to lead to anything negative. Perhaps I have an unrealistic faith in human nature, or maybe because deep down knowing that won't happen to me as I'm white, merge in (your words from the other day), and don't have any noticeable accent or observe any minority religious practices etc. it's easier for me to look at it that way. If I had that to deal with I could see myself as more likely to end up thinking about things in the same way you do.

Interesting exchange of thoughts, cheers!
 
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It would be interesting if any of the people who embarrassed our country this last two weeks would be moved at all by an actual sensible conversation about immigration...

 
I live about a 10minute walk from Hillsborough Stadium and had to walk past a bunch of men chanting "E E EDL, E E EDL" on the way to the match yesterday. I was with a half Jamaican women and Lebanese man who were obviously horrified.
 
mitChley said:
I live about a 10minute walk from Hillsborough Stadium and had to walk past a bunch of men chanting "E E EDL, E E EDL" on the way to the match yesterday. I was with a half Jamaican women and Lebanese man who were obviously horrified.
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Not true. The EDL hasn't existed for 10 years. You must have misheard. For all you know they've just changed energy suppliers and have got such a great deal, they've shouted "E E EDF!"
 
mitChley said:
I live about a 10minute walk from Hillsborough Stadium and had to walk past a bunch of men chanting "E E EDL, E E EDL" on the way to the match yesterday. I was with a half Jamaican women and Lebanese man who were obviously horrified.
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we’re the “racists with stammers,” and w-w-we are entitled f-f-free speech.
 
Buster15 said:
I was so proud of Bristol, a city I live not far from. The previous Saturday, there was some rioting by the so called far right.
But last week, instead of further riots which had been predicted by the police, it was replaced by thousands of ordinary people in a huge anti riot march.
That was a true reflection of feeling by the majority about immigrants. Well done people.
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Even that first night, far right thugs were outnumbered by about 4 to 1 by anti fascist protesters. When they marched on the Mercure Hotel, the police were caught out and It was initially protected by counter protesters for a while before the cops caught up. I’ve been really proud of how Bristol has acted through this.
 
Kinsella said:
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Damn I'm very surprised. I didn't think it was as bad as almost 40%. To get plus 30% of people ok with attacking homes is lunacy.



This is a good video that touches on the riots and the history of Liverpool. TIL Liverpool has had a settled black community for 300 years.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Damn I'm very surprised. I didn't think it was as bad as almost 40%. To get plus 30% of people ok with attacking homes is lunacy.



This is a good video that touches on the riots and the history of Liverpool. TIL Liverpool has had a settled black community for 300 years.
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40% of the people they asked might not accurately reflect 40% of the country.

I mean, I really hope it doesn't.
 
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