Seeing Holland stretch the pitch with their wide players did make me think we missed a trick tonight. More holes would have opened up if we forced that Serbian backline to be more stretched.
England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion
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Shades of Moyes’s ‘we have to make it difficult to Newcastle at home’.Serbia
England manager Gareth Southgate speaking to BBC: "They are a strong team. We had to suffer a bit which I think is really good for us. I think to defend the box the way we did was really good for us."
Southgate should've committed to giving him a prolonged run in central midfield this time last year. England had already qualified for the Euros and had Italy and Ukraine still to play so excellent tests against some high level midfielders. Instead what we got was Kalvin fecking Phillips starting v Italy and Henderson still around so Southgate paying the price for showing too much loyalty to players not having great times at club level and now he's basically having to cross his fingers players will suddenly excel in major tournaments in unfamiliar positions.
I was just thinking Watkins on the left for the players that are are there.
in attack I’d be looking at :
…………………….Kane………………………..
Watkins ………………………….Saka….
…………………Foden/Palmer………….
…….Bellingham……….Rice…………….
Trippier…Stones…. Guehi…….Walker
I would try Palmer because I think Foden needs to work his way out of PTSD in an England shirt, but either of them being the creative force in that space . Bellingham than has License to push farther forward or stay back (again, setting the tempo) . Watkins can play from the left and provides a threat in a unique channel from the others .
Trippier or walker could tuck in when/if Bellingham ventures really far forward on runs.
Can't say anyone stood out for England today.
But, once again, the balance is off in midfield.
But, once again, the balance is off in midfield.
Bellingham seemed to be given a free role today, he was all over the pitch which, whilst eye catching, didn't exactly help keep structure in the midfield.
I thought Foden was a waste of space, but then he had Trippier behind him who wasn't exactly a big help in attacking areas. Saka was decent in the first thalf as an outlet, but as they got pushed further and further back he became completely ineffective, and it was left for Bowen to come on and try and provide some running threat behind to create breathing room.
I don't know. The more I think about what I saw, the more relaxed I feel about the players and the more annoyed I am at Southgate.
Don’t think you can fit Bellingham, Saka, and Foden in the same team now (at least based on what I just saw). Foden needs to be the one to drop to the bench, maybe for Gordon to be the one to hug the touchline and make space for others.
TAA I just don’t think is it in CM, would play any of the other 3 over him, don’t even care which one, obviously would love Mainoo but probably would look at trying Wharton v Denmark if it was up to me as he seems to be great at playing in between the lines.
TAA I just don’t think is it in CM, would play any of the other 3 over him, don’t even care which one, obviously would love Mainoo but probably would look at trying Wharton v Denmark if it was up to me as he seems to be great at playing in between the lines.
That’s surely the end of the TAA in midfield experiment. Did anyone hear Dixon say he’s the best passer in world football?
Couldnt believe how bad Foden and Kane were too. But a win is a win and that’s all that counts in the opening group game.
Couldnt believe how bad Foden and Kane were too. But a win is a win and that’s all that counts in the opening group game.
Southgate is trash
Also why the feck play TAA midfield with Mainoo as an option? Joke of a manager
Looks as if Southgate doesn't trust Mainoo. It appears that he'll be given the scraps (and used out of position) as Bellingham's backup. When push comes to shove, Gallagher will come in for Trent.
Been saying Foden should be nowhere near the team. He’s never had a good game for England.
Trent did alright I think, but still a concern against better sides I would say. Just play players in their best positions. England are fortunate to not need to put players in unfamiliar roles. Play a proper LW and a proper CM.
Trent did alright I think, but still a concern against better sides I would say. Just play players in their best positions. England are fortunate to not need to put players in unfamiliar roles. Play a proper LW and a proper CM.
I don't get why we need to force specialist long passer like Trent in midfield ( edit )
It's a strange one for sure . I think we all know it's not going to work .
He's left it to late with the new players / set up to be sure of it . I think at this point , if he wants something fresh with a bigger chance of working , he needs to introduce a new core who already play together . Wharton , eze , gueri ( existing )
I'd like mainoo to play , but I think lefty Wharton and rice might be the answer .
It's a strange one for sure . I think we all know it's not going to work .
He's left it to late with the new players / set up to be sure of it . I think at this point , if he wants something fresh with a bigger chance of working , he needs to introduce a new core who already play together . Wharton , eze , gueri ( existing )
I'd like mainoo to play , but I think lefty Wharton and rice might be the answer .
That’s surely the end of the TAA in midfield experiment. Did anyone hear Dixon say he’s the best passer in world football?
Couldnt believe how bad Foden and Kane were too. But a win is a win and that’s all that counts in the opening group game.
Heaven knows why, this is their normal performance for England. Give or take a penalty for Kane, this is exactly what I expect.
I tend to agree, he's very good but I think his second half of the season at Real is closer to his true level than the purple patch first 20 games. That said he's got an eye for goal and good timing at arriving in the box, almost Lampard like. I don't think he has the technique of someone like Foden, Palmer but he's far more driven and far less afraid. For all his technique Phil goes missing quite a lot under the weight of expectation, Bellingham tends to deliver in the big moments despite an average at best game today.
Agree with this 100%. Which is why I think Grealish should've been on the plane, he's the most experienced actual LW. I'd start Gordon too but it's not going to happen as Foden is the golden boy, but he's been carried by Saka on the side for the last four years.
I'd rather Gallagher than TAA.
I just wish once in my lifetime that the England manager would have the bravery to choose a system and the ideal player profiles for that system, and then pick a team from the players that match those profiles, and stop trying to force square pegs in round holes to accommodate big names.
The system he clearly wants to play is:
a back 4, with a left footed lb, and a right footed rb.
A 6,8 and a 10 or maybe a 6 and two 8’s in midfield.
And a right footed forward on the left, the opposite on the right… and a natural number 9.
So just play players who fit those profiles… we have literally hundreds to choose from.
For starters, to take only one recognised left footed LB who is injured when the whole balance of the team relies on the role is bonkers.
Trying to squeeze 2 number 10s in because they are big name players is bonkers
Trying to squeeze a talented full back into midfield where he has basically zero experience is bonkers .
This team should basically pick itself, especially when shaw is fit.
The only real questions should be am I playing a midfield 3 of Rice, Mainoo, and Jude, with Rice at 6. Or am I playing Wharton, rice and Jude with Wharton at 6.
And am I playing Gordon or Eze on the left.
Simples.
The system he clearly wants to play is:
a back 4, with a left footed lb, and a right footed rb.
A 6,8 and a 10 or maybe a 6 and two 8’s in midfield.
And a right footed forward on the left, the opposite on the right… and a natural number 9.
So just play players who fit those profiles… we have literally hundreds to choose from.
For starters, to take only one recognised left footed LB who is injured when the whole balance of the team relies on the role is bonkers.
Trying to squeeze 2 number 10s in because they are big name players is bonkers
Trying to squeeze a talented full back into midfield where he has basically zero experience is bonkers .
This team should basically pick itself, especially when shaw is fit.
The only real questions should be am I playing a midfield 3 of Rice, Mainoo, and Jude, with Rice at 6. Or am I playing Wharton, rice and Jude with Wharton at 6.
And am I playing Gordon or Eze on the left.
Simples.
Denmark were really good up until their goal too.I don't see how you can come out of watching the individual Denmark/England games today thinking Denmark will win the next game.
We’ll see what happens on Thursday anyway
Foden was poor tonight, either play Bellingham as a number 8 alongside rice and foden at a 10 (although I don't think he's been great for England in any position) or drop foden altogether and have someone like Gordon or Eze on the wing. It's like Sven trying to fit scholes, lampard and slippy g into a squad, it just doesn't work..
Also Southgate needs to play pacey wingers that get behind defenders beyond Kane or stop pandering to Kane wanting to drop back into midfield all the time. Leaves us with no out, as evident in the second half when we had nobody upfront. Kane playing deep like that only works when you've got runners from wide beyond him, which again Foden doesn't do.
It leaves us lopsided, Saka the only winger to be about to run at a man, as soon as Serbia figured that out he was out of the game in the 2nd half.
Also Trent in midfield was poor, again out Bellingham back at the 8 or someone else. Hell I'd even take Henderson being shipped in over Trent in that position.
Also Southgate needs to play pacey wingers that get behind defenders beyond Kane or stop pandering to Kane wanting to drop back into midfield all the time. Leaves us with no out, as evident in the second half when we had nobody upfront. Kane playing deep like that only works when you've got runners from wide beyond him, which again Foden doesn't do.
It leaves us lopsided, Saka the only winger to be about to run at a man, as soon as Serbia figured that out he was out of the game in the 2nd half.
Also Trent in midfield was poor, again out Bellingham back at the 8 or someone else. Hell I'd even take Henderson being shipped in over Trent in that position.
We can talk formation and player positions all day long but nothing will change with that bang average manager in charge. He really reminds me of Ole - a typical yes man who does not do any tactics and relies solely on individual brilliance to win games.
Pretty standard opening England game if you look at our track record. A lot of expectation, some early encouragement but ultimately a bit disappointing. As someone who’s been to a lot of these things it’s hard to think of any opening games that have lived up to the hype. 3 years ago was much the same against better opponents and the Grealish whining is like complaining that Lee Sharpe would’ve helped us beat Switzerland at Euro 96 (a disappointing 1-1 draw at Wembley in our best pre-Southgate Euros) I know we’re all down on him atm but Rashford is the player with actual International tournament pedigree that could’ve really been useful from the bench… Grealish might’ve won some free kicks but that’s it…
Plus everyone knows the draw backs of the Southgate system by now. A wins a win. We move on and hopefully stop picking silly line ups.
Plus everyone knows the draw backs of the Southgate system by now. A wins a win. We move on and hopefully stop picking silly line ups.
More like Southgate doesn't really know what he is doing but as usual, the vast array of quality England have gets him out of trouble.
The fact that everyone is just fine with him starting every game no matter what for this long is hilarious. He's mostly terrible for England if he isn't playing minnows to stat pad the goal record. And with the current squad composition, England would be much better with an actual running CF up top to stretch a defense.
Look for the positives. Played unconvincingly, only Saka, and at times Bellingham, managed to show some of their abilities, yet England still won and got a clean sheet. Things will need to start clicking soon but if they do by the time the group stage is over it might be perfect timing.
Mainoo is not ready and can’t pass the ball as well. For all TAA issues defending Mainoo is worse although he can score from almost anywhere. He’s just not ready yet.
Feels like the writing is basically on the wall. They’ll limp deep into the tournament, playing ugly but getting the necessary results thanks to individual brilliance before getting knocked out by a more competent team.
Basically a UEFA version of South Korea NT. Incidentally, both teams haven’t won a trophy since the 60s.
Basically a UEFA version of South Korea NT. Incidentally, both teams haven’t won a trophy since the 60s.
Based on what i saw from TAA midfield today, and from Mainoo this season, Mainoo is more than ready to play in the group stages and would be a big upgrade in midfield over TAA.
Would love to see England play with 2 up front, I though Kane looked isolated all game and Serbia looked more dangerous up front with their 2 strikers.
England looked disjointed and almost devoid of ideas, but we ground out the win. The day of reckoning will come, but not today.
Against Serbia.
I think England may shithouse their way to another semi if the draws are kind but 1-0 and shut up shop has bitten them in the ass twice now and it looks like Southgate hasn’t learnt anything going by today’s performance.
The mad thing is this England generation has the quality to go toe to toe with anybody but aside from very few occasions against clearly inferior opponents, they are playing football from the 90s/early 00s instead of the modern quick passing and pressing game even the likes of Italy has embraced at international level.
foden showing his class for england again..
hes a passenger, we have players to give us better balance without him.
hes a passenger, we have players to give us better balance without him.
Yes, he cuts inside sometimes too much, especially when he's on the left, but he's got the pace to run in behind.
England totally lacked the yard of pace Rashford has.
Not taking Marcus Rashford to this tournament is criminal when you look at some of England's options. He's got a respectable record for England and it arguably brings out the best in him.
Saka and Foden are just the same player on either side of the pitch.
Those were actually 2 decent subs with both coming on and instantly making an impact. The only one which was a massive head scratcher was Bellingham for Mainoo with a couple of minutes to go. You don't bring off a young 6'2 midfielder (and best player) for a 5'9 midfielder when the opposing team are starting to launch the ball into the box desperately.
Still think we should've took Rashford. Not only because he offers something different, but he's a big game player. Even when he's in poor form, he can produce match winning moments against top level opposition.
He was in poor form before the world cup and ended up being our best player (even though Southgate rarely played him).
He was in poor form before the world cup and ended up being our best player (even though Southgate rarely played him).
Yes every indication is he's not ready. motm vs the best side in club football in the cup final. HE'S NOT READY
This would be my main criticism of Southgate at this point in time. Everything is so up in the air, theres so few caps for so many players that he's definitely going to have to use. Qualifying is basically a foregone conclusion i dont know why England always go into tournaments experimenting with random players in random positions. I dont know why its always some guy with 3 caps becoming utterly essential about 2 games into the tournament. Its just weird.
Guehi, Mainoo, Wharton, Gordon. Even Gallagher hasn't been around the team that long has he?
Its a weird mix of building for a future he wont be there for and making do with the usual suspects for one more tournament (Trippier / Shaw and Maguire). Why not bring a left back who might be there in 2+ years time? I can understand gambling on Shaw's fitness for one final tournament but the other decisions make so little sense in that context.
Yup, people talk about him being a moments player, which is fair enough. But in international football sometimes you really need moments players because the team doesn't function well enough as a collective to sustain pressure or create tons of chances.
Foden is a much better player for a high functioning club but take him out of that context and he offers virtually nothing whereas Rashford could score a goal out of nowhere. And just his very presence and threat to run behind gives the defense something to think about.
Southgate has fecked this up by not picking Rashford and by only taking one real left back, who also happens to be injured. The left hand side looks awful and there's no obvious way to fix it. Gordon and Shaw (if he can play) is the best option at this point.
Can palmer play on the left ?
Would like Gordon on the left next game to be honest. Won't drift inside so often and has the pace to stretch the game and create space for others. He's also much, much better defensively for the full back than Foden.
Foden should only really be replacing Bellingham as a sub. He's not good enough to be played out of his natural position and we've got other options.
Alternatively could move Jude back to replace TAA and then Foden can play in the number 10 position.
Only downside to that is that Jude was by far England's best player today in that advanced position.
Foden should only really be replacing Bellingham as a sub. He's not good enough to be played out of his natural position and we've got other options.
Alternatively could move Jude back to replace TAA and then Foden can play in the number 10 position.
Only downside to that is that Jude was by far England's best player today in that advanced position.
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This is game one and it’s already starting with the club affiliations with supporters. It’s why we don’t deserve any major tournament wins.
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