England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024

[duffer]

Pickford, Shaw, Maguire, Stones, Walker, Trippier, Rice and Phillips are all part of the defense first and foremost.

That's five defenders, one goalie and two midfielders (which adds up to 8 by the way), not seven defenders.

Do you think Chelsea and Man United (who play two midfielders in front of their defence) play with 6 or 7 defenders respectively? Of course not.

 

[hellhunter]

That's five defenders, one goalie and two midfielders, not seven defenders.

Do you think Chelsea and Man United (who play two midfielders in front of their defence) play with 6 or 7 defenders respectively? Of course not.

Unless toying with Arsenal in the cup

 

[Dante]

Pickford, Shaw, Maguire, Stones, Walker, Trippier, Rice and Phillips are all part of the defense first and foremost.

Shaw had more touches in Germany's half:

And so did Trippier:

What's interesting is that Gosens, Kimmich, Kroos and Goretzka didn't. If anything, Germany had 8 defensive players on the pitch to England's 6.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

That's five defenders, one goalie and two midfielders (which adds up to 8 by the way), not seven defenders.

Do you think Chelsea and Man United (who play two midfielders in front of their defence) play with 6 or 7 defenders respectively? Of course not.

Rice is pretty much a CB playing in midfield and Pickford is technically a defender so that’s 7.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Shaw had more touches in Germany's half:

And so did Trippier:

What's interesting is that Gosens, Kimmich, Kroos and Goretzka didn't. If anything, Germany had 8 defensive players on the pitch to England's 6.

I’m not really slagging off the performance, in fact I’m buzzing we won. Doesn’t change the fact we have a very conservative team selection with 6/7 defenders out there which just isn’t the way I’d like us to play. Ultimately if we win I don’t care at international level.

The post I responded to took at jab at ole saying he was more negative but Ole has ever set up in a game with so many defensive players.

 

[duffer]

Rice is pretty much a CB playing in midfield and Pickford is technically a defender so that’s 7.

I honestly can't work out of you're joking or just have a very, very unorthodox take on football.

 

[Dante]

I’m not really slagging off the performance, in fact I’m buzzing we won. Doesn’t change the fact we have a very conservative team selection with 6/7 defenders out there which just isn’t the way I’d like us to play. Ultimately if we win I don’t care at international level.

The post I responded to took at jab at ole saying he was more negative but Ole has ever set up in a game with so many defensive players.

Shaw and Trippier weren't branded with theword 'defender' on their buttocks at birth.

If they play as attackers in any given system, they're attackers in that system.

 

[sjw2511]

Ridiculous, but predictable the England haters, hand wringers and apologists are out in force for England daring to celebrate a win. Even more ridiculous is a large portion of said individuals are actually English! Even the predictable "colonisation" term has been rolled out, very fashionable I guess in 2021 to hate your own country.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Shaw and Trippier weren't branded with theword 'defender' on their buttocks at birth.

If they play as attackers in any given system, they're attackers in that system.

Can they be as attacking as genuine attackers though? We left players like Grealish, Sancho and Foden on the bench to accommodate a more defensive system. Again well done Southgate, I criticised it but it worked well on the day. Struggling to see it was anything other than a conservative led approach though.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I honestly can't work out of you're joking or just have a very, very unorthodox take on football.

The number 7 is largely irrelevant but the point is we had 7/8 defensive players out of 11 on the pitch. Credit where it’s due it was a good call because we won. Don’t think anyone can claim it was pretty though, or offered great football.

 

[Siezard]

Can they be as attacking as genuine attackers though? We left players like Grealish, Sancho and Foden on the bench to accommodate a more defensive system. Again well done Southgate, I criticised it but it worked well on the day. Struggling to see it was anything other than a conservative led approach though.

Luke Shaw is definitely not a fully fledged attacker. He knows it and he has scored 3 careers goals out of 266 games.

Trippier is better in terms of goal scoring. He has scored 12 goals in 441 matches.

 

[saivet]

The number 7 is largely irrelevant but the point is we had 7/8 defensive players out of 11 on the pitch. Credit where it’s due it was a good call because we won. Don’t think anyone can claim it was pretty though, or offered great football.

But to say that and claim Ole has never done that is nonsense. United have played with 3 at the back with Fred, McT or Matic as the midfield duo.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

But to say that and claim Ole has never done that is nonsense. United have played with 3 at the back with Fred, McT or Matic as the midfield duo.

We have very rarely used that system and I'd argue Fred and McTominay are not purely defensive midfielders anyway especially when compared to Rice. I've criticised Ole at times for not being brave enough but I think its clear Southgate takes that to the next level considering some of the attacking options he has sat on the bench. Ultimately it doesn't really matter because club football and international football have different requirements and expectations. I just want England to win however they can, with Utd I fully expect us to play well and win in style.

 

[Marwood]

International tournaments are so result driven that's it's almost impossible to debate how a manager is doing.

Southgate had massive praise after Germany. If England put the exact same performance in against Ukraine but lose(its possible) he'll be slaughtered for being too defensive.

The performance is almost irrelevant to how he'll be viewed.

 

[WeePat]

I don't understand why conservative tactical set up is sneered in tournament football. They play once in 4 years, all that matters is winning doesn't matter if it's by playing like Brazilian team or Greece team.

If this was club football then yeah, it's easy to see but with National team it shouldn't matter.

If it works, couldn't care less in all honesty. Southgate's team selections used to wind me up at the start of the tournament because I thought it was a waste of all the attacking talent we had available. We're overwhelming favourites to reach the final, and in a position where not winning the whole thing would feel like a massive disappointment. I'm completely OK with Southgate's preferences now.

 

[roonster09]

If it works, couldn't care less in all honesty. Southgate's team selections used to wind up at the start of the tournament because I thought it was a waste of all the attacking talent we had available. We're overwhelming favourites to reach the final, and in a position where not winning the whole thing would feel like a massive disappointment. I'm completely OK with Southgate's preferences now.

Yeah, I didn't like his selections and like many others I wanted England to make full use of their attacking talent. But end of the day it's a month or so long tournament where only thing that matters is winning.

Till date they have done really well, not conceding a goal.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

If you like the England team & Southgate I would recommend listening to Football Ramble podcast from yesterday discussing the match . Really great episode

 

[Ekeke]

Should get past the semi finals before being offered a new contract. Thats when we'd see true progress instead of the normal hype and then failing in the later stages of tournaments

Great result against Germany still but its one match

 

[Classical Mechanic]

If it works, couldn't care less in all honesty. Southgate's team selections used to wind me up at the start of the tournament because I thought it was a waste of all the attacking talent we had available. We're overwhelming favourites to reach the final, and in a position where not winning the whole thing would feel like a massive disappointment. I'm completely OK with Southgate's preferences now.

We're not overwhelming favourites at all and if we don't win the competition it will not be a massive disappointment. We have the youngest and most inexperienced squad left in the tournament and overall the least experienced in the whole thing. We won our group for only the third time ever and reached the quarter finals without conceding a goal. We beat a major nation in the knockouts for the one of the few times in our history and it was psychologically the worst draw we could possibly get to overcome that. Unless we put in a pathetic display against Ukraine then the tournament represents progress.

The game against Ukraine will effectively be an away one with the large Ukrainian dispora in Italy. On paper we are the better side and would beat them more often than not but anything can happen in a one off game, especially when it's the biggest game of the opposition's lives. Then we're likely to face Denmark who are playing on a rare emotional dynamic because of Eriksen and look fantastic so far. We are favourites to make the final because we have the better players overall but it will be far from easy. If we do make the final then we will likely be facing a major nation with a very strong XI.

Personally I still see this side as one that's growing and will be best placed to win a tournament in 2024, 26, 28 & 30. If we managed to win this tournament we'd be arrving early and it would be a special achievement with such a young and inexperienced squad.

If you are really putting so much weight on us winning it then there's a decent chance you will end up very disappointed.

 

[FortBoyard]

Ridiculous, but predictable the England haters, hand wringers and apologists are out in force for England daring to celebrate a win. Even more ridiculous is a large portion of said individuals are actually English! Even the predictable "colonisation" term has been rolled out, very fashionable I guess in 2021 to hate your own country.

Is this a parody? Feel like it's the total opposite? Every English person is rejoicing, and everybody non-English is starting to hate the team because of the fans hyperbole and behaviour?

 

[mitchmouse]

Actually, I heard him say he thought our midfield was "a bit racy"

:0) I can almost believe that!

 

[WeePat]

We're not overwhelming favourites at all and if we don't win the competition it will not be a massive disappointment. We have the youngest and most inexperienced squad left in the tournament and overall the least experienced in the whole thing. We won our group for only the third time ever and reached the quarter finals without conceding a goal. We beat a major nation in the knockouts for the one of the few times in our history and it was psychologically the worst draw we could possibly get to overcome that. Unless we put in a pathetic display against Ukraine then the tournament represents progress.

The game against Ukraine will effectively be an away one with the large Ukrainian dispora in Italy. On paper we are the better side and would beat them more often than not but anything can happen in a one off game, especially when it's the biggest game of the opposition's lives. Then we're likely to face Denmark who are playing on a rare emotional dynamic because of Eriksen and look fantastic so far. We are favourites to make the final because we have the better players overall but it will be far from easy. If we do make the final then we will likely be facing a major nation with a very strong XI.

Personally I still see this side as one that's growing and will be best placed to win a tournament in 2024, 26, 28 & 30. If we managed to win this tournament we'd be arrving early and it would be a special achievement with such a young and inexperienced squad.

If you are really putting so much weight on us winning it then there's a decent chance you will end up very disappointed.

Perhaps an overstatement on my part, but do you not feel we're huge favourites to at least reach the final looking at the remaining teams on this side of the bracket? I'm not even remotely suggesting it will be easy. Far from it, but I think we would be big favourites against each of the other 3 remaining teams. I don't think it's such a controversial take.

Denmark, Czech Republic and Ukraine each deserve their respect for what they've done in this tournament. Denmark even beat us at Wembley in the Nations League not that long ago, but all that being the case, we are still big favourites now.

 

[Buster15]

Pickford, Shaw, Maguire, Stones, Walker, Trippier, Rice and Phillips are all part of the defense first and foremost.

You could also argue that many of them are also part of the attack when the team are going forward.

 

[Buster15]

Luke Shaw is definitely not a fully fledged attacker. He knows it and he has scored 3 careers goals out of 266 games.

Trippier is better in terms of goal scoring. He has scored 12 goals in 441 matches.

But how many has Luke Shaw had an assist in?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

You could also argue that many of them are also part of the attack when the team are going forward.

Sure but at the cost have actual specialist attacking players on the pitch. I'm pretty sure he will revert back to the 4 against Ukraine for that reason and we will see either Mount or Grealish start.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Perhaps an overstatement on my part, but do you not feel we're huge favourites to at least reach the final looking at the remaining teams on this side of the bracket? I'm not even remotely suggesting it will be easy. Far from it, but I think we would be big favourites each of the other 3 remaining teams. I don't think it's such a controversial take.

Denmark, Czech Republic and Ukraine each deserve their respect for what they've done in this tournament. Denmark even beat us at Wembley in the Nations League not that long ago, but all that being the case, we are still big favourites.

We're favourites to get to the final sure but not huge favourites I don't think. Denmark in particular are a very solid international side with a special motivation here. We played them twice in the Nations League last year. First was 0-0 and then we lost 0-1, Maguire was sent off fairly early in the loss and they scored from a free kick. Very tight games no matter how you look at it. They are 10th in the FIFA rankings which is a couple of places higher than Germany at the moment.

I think saying that it would be a massive disappointment if we don't win it is indicative of the boom bust mentality that we seem to have in this country. It's all or nothing for some reason and it's tiring to listen to. Think of the contrast between the reactions after the Scotland and Germany games. We're either on top of the world or in the gutter.

 

[WeePat]

We're favourites to get to the final sure but not huge favourites I don't think. Denmark in particular are a very solid international side with a special motivation here. We played them twice in the Nations League last year. First was 0-0 and then we lost 0-1, Maguire was sent off fairly early in the loss and they scored from a free kick. Very tight games no matter how you look at it. They are 10th in the FIFA rankings which is a couple of places higher than Germany at the moment.

I think saying that it would be a massive disappointment if we don't win it is indicative of the boom bust mentality that we seem to have in this country. It's all or nothing for some reason and it's tiring to listen to. Think of the contrast between the reactions after the Scotland and Germany games. We're either on top of the world or in the gutter.

Fair enough, I admit that was an overstatement on my part, but it was never a chest beating we're the best or we're the absolute worst for me. It's perfectly reasonable to adjust expectations the deeper we go in the tournament, especially when previous tournament favourites start dropping out. We can disagree on how to accurately sum up our chances. We both agree we're favourites to at least reach the final, but your objection is just the degree to which I think we're favourites.

I'm sure it was an Eriksen penalty they scored from in that 1-0 loss. I'm not downplaying their quality as a team. Check out the Denmark thread. I think I've been fairly clear on the fact that I think they're a fantastic team and well coached who could potentially go all the way.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Fair enough, I admit that was an overstatement on my part, but it was never a chest beating we're the best or we're the absolute worst for me. It's perfectly reasonable to adjust expectations the deeper we go in the tournament, especially when previous tournament favourites start dropping out. We can disagree on how to accurately sum up our chances. We both agree we're favourites to at least reach the final, but your objection is just the degree to which I think we're favourites.

I'm sure it was an Eriksen penalty they scored from in that 1-0 loss. I'm not downplaying their quality as a team. Check out the Denmark thread. I think I've been fairly clear on the fact that I think they're a fantastic team and well coached who could potentially go all the way.

I was a penalty yes. In the first game they shaded it I think but I actually think we were the better side with 10 men even though we lost in the return game. Either way it's avery tough game if we play them. They don't have the stars that Germany have but they do have a cohesive side where everyone knows what they're doing and generally a high standard of player throughout the XI.

Saw this on another forum RE Ukraine

Ukraine are absolutely no mugs, and certainly shouldn't be taken lightly. They qualified ahead of and took 4 points off Portugal to make the Euro's, and beat Spain in the Nations League. Drew to France in France in the world cup qualifiers in March. We haven't played them too recently but certainly played them regularly from 2009-2015 and they were never easy games. Won 2, drew 2, lost 1.

 

[WeePat]

I was a penalty yes. In the first game they shaded it I think but I actually think we were the better side with 10 men even though we lost in the return game. Either way it's avery tough game if we play them. They don't have the stars that Germany have but they do have a cohesive side where everyone knows what they're doing and generally a high standard of player throughout the XI.

Saw this on another forum RE Ukraine

I think it's safe to say we agree 95% of the way on this. There are no easy games left, and we certainly haven't had any easy games throughout the tournament.

 

[dbs235]

I don't think anyone really thinks it's going to be "easy", it's just preferable to having to face more of the bigger nations.

 

[Random Task]

Is Trippier really the best right-back in England?

 

[duffer]

Is Trippier really the best right-back in England?

At doing the job Southgate wants? Probably.

 

[rcoobc]

Nothing really wrong with the formation on Tuesday. It was defensive but deliberately so.

The problem was playing Kane (Rashford would be the same). Play a front three of Sancho - Saka - Sterling (or Grealish or Foden) if you prefer and watch them fly. Those are fluid players that are quick and will create spaces.

Kane is not fluid. Give him chances and he'll score goals but he's not the right player for this England team, as good as he is.

 

[Klopper76]

Is Trippier really the best right-back in England?

There're quite a few options England have at RB. Alexander-Arnold, Trippier, AWB, Walker and James are all very good in different ways. It depends what Southgate wants from his RB but Trippier or Walker would be his preferred choice. If walker plays in a back three then Trippier seems to suit the RWB position pretty well.

 

[Random Task]

There're quite a few options England have at RB. Alexander-Arnold, Trippier, AWB, Walker and James are all very good in different ways. It depends what Southgate wants from his RB but Trippier or Walker would be his preferred choice. If walker plays in a back three then Trippier seems to suit the RWB position pretty well.

At doing the job Southgate wants? Probably.

I don't see why Tyrone Mings couldn't slot in at CB with Kyle Walker shifting out to right wingback. Walker is far more effective from an attacking perspective, where England struggle the most in this set up. Also, I am halfway convinced Trippier is still a member of the first team squad due to that free-kick that happened. That one time. Many moons ago.

It's a shame TAA got injured as he would have been ideal for the right wingback role.

 

[Klopper76]

I don't see why Tyrone Mings couldn't slot in at CB with Kyle Walker shifting out to right wingback. Walker is far more effective from an attacking perspective, where England struggle the most in this set up. Also, I am halfway convinced Trippier is still a member of the first team squad due to that free-kick that happened. That one time. Many moons ago.

It's a shame TAA got injured as he would have been ideal for the right wingback role.

Yeah true. It'd reduce the defensive burden on TAA if he had another CB there to cover as well.

 

[duffer]

I don't see why Tyrone Mings couldn't slot in at CB with Kyle Walker shifting out to right wingback. Walker is far more effective from an attacking perspective, where England struggle the most in this set up. Also, I am halfway convinced Trippier is still a member of the first team squad due to that free-kick that happened. That one time. Many moons ago.

It's a shame TAA got injured as he would have been ideal for the right wingback role.

Mings is a much worse option at centre back than Trippier is as a wing back.

As a Chelsea fan I'd love to see James on the right but I don't think it's a terrible decision.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Mings is a much worse option at centre back than Trippier is as a wing back.

As a Chelsea fan I'd love to see James on the right but I don't think it's a terrible decision.

Absolutely.

To be fair Mings played well in both games he started but I don't rate him at all. For as much stick as Maguire gets it's a huge boost for England he's back fit.

 

[duffer]

Absolutely.

To be fair Mings played well in both games he started but I don't rate him at all. For as much stick as Maguire gets it's a huge boost for England he's back fit.

Agreed completely. Mings is not a terrible player but he's a lot worse than Maguire or Stones.

 

[The Siege]

I'll give Southgate credit for one thing.
He's the first England manager in years whose realised that you don't actually have to care about anyone's opinions about who should start and not start in the XI. Even if you pick the press and fan pressured XI, it's not like you get to keep the job if you don't get the results. The dude does things his way, even if his way is as seemingly odd as playing Trippier at LB. And all of this may seem obvious af things to do, but they're not if you're the England manager.