England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024

Ananke said:
What are you on about? He runs behind beautifully, and then runs into a player making any build up play worthless. His end product is garbage, which makes the rest pointless.

It’s like making yourself a gourmet dinner, then taking a crap on top of it. You wanna eat it?
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Still England's only goal scorer in the tournament, and his goals are the only reason they aren't out. Just saying.

The nonsense that he shouldn't be in the team is ridiculous. For all he fluffs, in 3 games he's looked the only player capable of scoring a goal. Literally the only player with the end product (garbage and all that it is) that matters this tourney so far.
 
Pick a best English team & subs and you have what? Pushing towards a billion or more worth of talent when considered in club football terms.

Kane - 150m
Sancho - 100m
Sterling - 50m+
Mount - 50m+
Foden - 50m +
Grealish - 100m
Rice - 70m+
Maguire - 80m

etc etc etc

I refuse to believe that a decent manager can't make an exciting attack team out of this much fecking talent.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
I hope I’m very wrong but nothing I’ve seen so far in this tournament makes my head believe we can do much more. I feel like the moment we face top class opposition, we’ll get exploited and go out in a bit of a whimper. No idea why I’m pessimistic after winning the group and not conceding but it’s just a feeling watching this team gives. Hope my heart is right…..
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Two goals in three games, centre forward hasnt turned up yet, Rice not convincing. Obviously we've qualified but there are certainly enough reasons to be cautious.
 
slyadams said:
What do people think to a CM two of Henderson and Bellingham? Too open?
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I wouldnt start with a 17 year old CM. Obviously bringing him on in games is fine but if you start heaping pressure on a kid of that age youre not doing him any favours.
 
England has a habit of going out early, but it's usually done with some dignity and a one goal loss or a shoot out. They never get trashed.

Recent years however there seems to have become a habit of big teams collapsing and letting in six or seven. I get some of that false bravado feel from this English team, like the players think they are hot shit when as a team they are anything but. I could see a Brazil type slaying by either France or Germany. They are both capable of dishing it out.
 
padr81 said:
Still England's only goal scorer in the tournament, and his goals are the only reason they aren't out. Just saying.

The nonsense that he shouldn't be in the team is ridiculous. For all he fluffs, in 3 games he's looked the only player capable of scoring a goal. Literally the only player with the end product (garbage and all that it is) that matters this tourney so far.
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That doesn't really prove he would be better than those he's in the team ahead of though, Sterling has been pretty terrible outside the 2 goal contributions, and is a key reason why England look so lacking in creativity. Sterling is in the team ahead of players with a lot of goals to their name, so there's no reason to think those players wouldn't be scoring, and the team might look better for it. Sterling being wasteful also always becomes all the more apparent against better teams where chances are more limited.

The inverse of this theory would be to say Mings should keep his place ahead of Maguire, and some were saying this, but it's nonsense really. We need to find the best team, and it's quite apparent this team is not performing.

As an aside, England still would have qualified with 3 0-0 draws anyway, so it's not strictly true to say Sterling's goals are the only reason they aren't out, Portugal qualified with 3 draws last Euros, and 3 draws would already be enough here, yes the format is that bad.
 
England are boring to watch, we are too negative and careful, sometimes we'll be in the other half and the next minute without losing possession we've passed back to the defenders, some teams do it to tire the opponents out but England don't, we just seem to want to bore the opponent to death.

Given that right now we probably have more attacking options that we've had for years, it's Mourinho esque to be so negative, I was expecting us to build on 2018 but we seem to have gone backwards.

I totally get being negative if we are playing Germany, France, Italy etc but when we are playing teams who don't have anywhere near the quality that we have all over the field - I expect us to be more attacking, a little cocky even.

With that said, I think no crowds and small crowds have a bigger impact on football results than people care to admit, for example Liverpool went from league champions playing exciting football at Anfield to struggling very badly... regardless of who the manager is, I don't think anything can motivate and put the passion and fire into a footballer that a full stadium can, footballers get motivated by their own fans singing their names and also by opponents fans criticising them, switch that to an empty stadium and you have a training ground atmosphere, switch it to a half filled stadium and you have a Champions league game against minnows or a pre season friendly.

So I won't be calling for a change of manager because I can't be certain that the problem is at Gareth's door.
 
Honestly, I don't just think England are boring, I think they are performing badly. The media and some fans are pushing this game management narrative, it's not that and they know it's not that. England aren't creating chances and they are finding it difficult to build up( not building up slowly on purpose). This isn't a mourinho team using its shape, discipline and aggression to shut out the opposition and create counters, this is a team legitimately relinquishing control of the game who have struggled to counter until Grealish and Saka brought that with them today.

The attack clearly has great players, the full backs have been fine( Shaw has been great imo) and the defenders have done their job without being really tested. The midfield have been relatively poor on the ball and in the build up phase since the start of the tournament. Until today, the attackers have also not really supported the midfield by connecting with them from deeper positions, much like United, they have been waiting high up. Essentially forcing a situation where the full backs are forced to almost be the link between the the defence and attack. Today, having Maguire in there helped with that, as he was playing balls between the lines. The fear is that when England play a top side, they are going to be pinned back(particularly with their earlier line ups). They have not shown the connection to create counter attacking opportunities like Italy, France and Portugal have. Usually these come with quick combinations or initial drives. When pressed, Italy and France have consistently been able to produce those counter opportunities. When you add the fact that Kane doesn't seem at his fittest, hoofing the ball to an unfit Kane might see England struggle with consistent pressure. France beat Germany because they could combine quickly, were consistently aggressive in blocking German lanes of attack and had the quality and touch of Benzema, Pogba, Griezman and Mbappe to rely on. Kante was the reason they plugged those holes whilst maintaining their shape. England don't have that.
 
Pickford

Walker--Stones--Maguire--Shaw

Phillips--Rice

Sterling---Mount---Grealish

Kane​

Should be the lineup against France.

One thing Southgate has got right so far is that he's playing in a way that won't require him to switch up to a plan B in the latter stages.

England's plan A might be boring against the easier teams, but it's the same strategy that will give them a chance as the harder sides. For instance, if Italy or The Netherlands try to take their group stage form into the knockouts, they're likely to go out.

Defence first is the best way to win tournaments. So far, England have the most momentum to do that out of everybody. They're difficult to score against, but always liable to nick a goal.
 
What else are you expecting from a team that has a Rice-Phillips midfield?
 
Dante said:
Pickford

Walker--Stones--Maguire--Shaw

Phillips--Rice

Sterling---Mount---Grealish

Kane​

Should be the lineup against France.

One thing Southgate has got right so far is that he's playing in a way that won't require him to switch up to a plan B in the latter stages.

England's plan A might be boring against the easier teams, but it's the same strategy that will give them a chance as the harder sides. For instance, if Italy or The Netherlands try to take their group stage form into the knockouts, they're likely to go out.

Defence first is the best way to win tournaments. So far, England have the most momentum to do that out of everybody. They're difficult to score against, but always liable to nick a goal.
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It’s funny when we thought England new generation looks great in attack but abit lacking in CB/DM. Turns out we are a boring team when going forward but solid at the back.
 
I don’t get the criticism to be honest. Given the way we play and the utilisation of his squad then depending on who we play and who he selects we’re odds-on to be the freshest team, probably in the last 16.

Many sides who have been very successful in torments over the years have understood a group stage is something to be carefully and strategically navigated. The group stage isn’t necessarily the ‘treat every match like a cup final’ stage. The commentary team last night even made mention that this methodical, ‘race not a sprint’ approach was tactically intentional having witnessed successful teams of the past take this route.
 
stw2022 said:
I don’t get the criticism to be honest. Given the way we play and the utilisation of his squad then depending on who we play and who he selects we’re odds-on to be the freshest team, probably in the last 16.

Many sides who have been very successful in torments over the years have understood a group stage is something to be carefully and strategically navigated. The group stage isn’t necessarily the ‘treat every match like a cup final’ stage. The commentary team last night even made mention that this methodical, ‘race not a sprint’ approach was tactically intentional having witnessed successful teams of the past take this route.
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This, coupled with the zero travelling that the England squad have done so far means that the England squad will be one of the freshest possibly along with the Italians, for the next round.

However, don't underestimate the strength of momentum, which Belgium and Italians have in spades. That feeling that you're playing brilliant football and can sweep all in front of you away is a great feeling to have during tournaments, I don't think England have that.
They still looked a bit scared at times last night of making mistakes, a bit too rigid in the section be half.
A good result against Portugal, Germany or France on the next round however could change all that of course...
 
stw2022 said:
I don’t get the criticism to be honest. Given the way we play and the utilisation of his squad then depending on who we play and who he selects we’re odds-on to be the freshest team, probably in the last 16.

Many sides who have been very successful in torments over the years have understood a group stage is something to be carefully and strategically navigated. The group stage isn’t necessarily the ‘treat every match like a cup final’ stage. The commentary team last night even made mention that this methodical, ‘race not a sprint’ approach was tactically intentional having witnessed successful teams of the past take this route.
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Very sensible assessment. Nobody remembers the group stage. It is simply a means to an end.
The competition starts now. And Gareth and the England squad have no excuses.
No travelling and a relatively easy group qualification.
Let's judge the end product. That will be what counts.
 
It almost feels quite unfortunate that we’re going to get one of the big boys next, would have liked to have seen us go further. But I think we can give all of them a good game.
 
No confidence at all heading into the knockout stage knowing who the potential opponent will be.

1-0 merchants. Hard to win when Southgate leaves better options on the bench more often than not. An immediate result of that being players not being fluid/used to one another. Doesn’t let the team play to their strengths.


...all signs point to a 1-and-done for England. I actually hope in a way just so that Southgate gets the boot and England can better prepare for the WC. He’s a footballing terrorist with all the talents at his disposal he’s managed to...mismanage.
 
England verge on collapse in the second half.
 
stw2022 said:
I don’t get the criticism to be honest. Given the way we play and the utilisation of his squad then depending on who we play and who he selects we’re odds-on to be the freshest team, probably in the last 16.

Many sides who have been very successful in torments over the years have understood a group stage is something to be carefully and strategically navigated. The group stage isn’t necessarily the ‘treat every match like a cup final’ stage. The commentary team last night even made mention that this methodical, ‘race not a sprint’ approach was tactically intentional having witnessed successful teams of the past take this route.
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You're odds on to be the freshest team, by all means, but how much does that help when you barely register shots on target and Kane looks, well, atrocious more or less . You can play at maybe 80% and still look good, but apart from brief spells you've looked dodgy, now the group stages are over without there being any sign whatsoever that Kane is going to improve, there's also fairly big questions about Southgates tactical decisions.

Sterling, who hasn't been very good, is your only goal threat, if that's not a worry then i'm not sure what is. You're depending on Kane improving, a lot, as Southgate has no alternatives that he's tried.
 
Pexbo said:
The next likeliest seemed to be France, if France and Germany draw and Portugal win.

It can only be Germany if there is two draws.
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Think you're mixing up some things here. France and Germany can't draw combined with a Portugal win since it's France-Portugal tonight and not France-Germany.

Germany can get second if they win and France win/draw (likeliest outcome imo).

Unless I am myself missing something obvious here of course.
 
RobinLFC said:
Think you're mixing up some things here. France and Germany can't draw combined with a Portugal win since it's France-Portugal tonight and not France-Germany.

Germany can get second if they win and France win/draw (likeliest outcome imo).

Unless I am myself missing something obvious here of course.
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Yep I’m a moron. I’ll delete that and CBA to figure it out again, I’ll wait for Jermaine Jeans to explain it to me.
 
padr81 said:
Still England's only goal scorer in the tournament, and his goals are the only reason they aren't out. Just saying.

The nonsense that he shouldn't be in the team is ridiculous. For all he fluffs, in 3 games he's looked the only player capable of scoring a goal. Literally the only player with the end product (garbage and all that it is) that matters this tourney so far.
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Nothing to do with his performance. He's bagged the only goals and they weren't exactly wonder goals. Or even "that's brilliant by Sterling" moments. We've been pinging long balls and through balls constantly through our opposition (I hate the tactics we've been playing personally) and the amount of chances that have been trashed/wasted far far exceeds the ones that can be deemed 'unlucky'.

If sterling wasn't popping in the 2 goals in 3 games we've scored against Czech, Scotland, Croatia (embarrassing), someone else would have been popping up in those channels. And possibly getting more.
 
Pexbo said:
Yep I’m a moron. I’ll delete that and CBA to figure it out again, I’ll wait for Jermaine Jeans to explain it to me.
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Grim :lol:

France win and Germany win/draw --> Germany
France win and Germany loss --> Hungary
France draw and Germany win --> France
France draw and Germany draw --> Germany
France draw and Germany loss --> Hungary or Portugal, depending on margins
France loss and Germany win -> Portugal
France loss and Germany draw --> France or Germany, depending on margins
France loss and Germany loss --> France or Hungary, depending on margins

Think those are the scenarios.
 
RobinLFC said:
Grim :lol:

France win and Germany win/draw --> Germany
France win and Germany loss --> Hungary
France draw and Germany win --> France
France draw and Germany draw --> Germany
France draw and Germany loss --> Hungary or Portugal, depending on margins
France loss and Germany win -> Portugal
France loss and Germany draw --> France or Germany, depending on margins
France loss and Germany loss --> France or Hungary, depending on margins

Think those are the scenarios.
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France Draw + Germany loss means Portugal finish 2nd as Hungary and Portugal will be on 4 points and H2H gets taken into account before GD
Similarly, France loss + Germany draw=France finish 2nd
Germany loss + France loss would mean France or Hungary but Hungary can finish 2nd only if there is a 4 goal swing across the 2 games + Hungary have scored more goals than France (which is unlikely)
 
anant said:
France Draw + Germany loss means Portugal finish 2nd as Hungary and Portugal will be on 4 points and H2H gets taken into account before GD
Similarly, France loss + Germany draw=France finish 2nd
Germany loss + France loss would mean France or Hungary but Hungary can finish 2nd only if there is a 4 goal swing across the 2 games + Hungary have scored more goals than France (which is unlikely)
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Ah yeah fair enough! Forgot that H2H > GD if it's only a two-way tie.
 
We've actually done better than I thought we would do before the tournament began. Southgate's conservative approach will be forgiven if we make it another couple of rounds, I think.

I was really impressed with Saka, Sterling is growing on me again, as he did at the world cup, and I can forgive him for not playing Rashford much who is clearly nowhere near best form.
 
Damn, you English people seriously underestimate your team and manager. 7 points. Zero goals conceded. Never in real danger.
Pragmatism wins you titles, not super flying football.

And btw; i told you that Pickford is great for NT. Best English no1
 
The Rice and Phillips partnership is by far the biggest problem. None of them two can take the ball on the turn so they have to play the way they face resulting in a lot of backwards passes to the defenders and Pickford. This means the four players in front of them have to come deep and try and carry the ball far to start attacking moves. The thing is I don't know which player would solve this problem as this as always been Henderson's weakness also and i haven't watched Bellingham enough to judge.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Damn, you English people seriously underestimate your team and manager. 7 points. Zero goals conceded. Never in real danger.
Pragmatism wins you titles, not super flying football.

And btw; i told you that Pickford is great for NT. Best English no1
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2 goals in 3 games, couldn't get past Scotland, and don't look particularly inspiring. E.g. The Netherlands also didn't concede a goal but at least they've looked good going forward, yet no one bar @KirkDuyt thinks they're going to win the whole thing.

All true about pragmatism and stuff but even then this squad has so much more potential.
 
RobinLFC said:
2 goals in 3 games, couldn't get past Scotland, and don't look particularly inspiring. E.g. The Netherlands also didn't concede a goal but at least they've looked good going forward, yet no one bar @KirkDuyt thinks they're going to win the whole thing.

All true about pragmatism and stuff but even then this squad has so much more potential.
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Oh hell yeah, we're the team to beat. France may have Mbappe and Benzema, but they're no Wout Weghorst or Denzel Dumfries!
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Damn, you English people seriously underestimate your team and manager. 7 points. Zero goals conceded. Never in real danger.
Pragmatism wins you titles, not super flying football.

And btw; i told you that Pickford is great for NT. Best English no1
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I had this discussion with a friend of mine who's Dutch last night. I was moaning about how shit we look and he said the consensus in Holland is that England are looking very professional and will grow into the tournament. He also made the point that the teams who look most spectacular early rarely win the tournament. All fair points but I just cant see us going far with Southgate at the helm. He seems to play favorites to the detriment of the team. He's extremely pragmatic, when we dont really have the players to play that kind of football. 2 goals and barely any chances in 3 games is worrying. It's not like we've looked rock solid at the back either, Scotland had a fair few very good chances against us.
 
If we adopt a defensive approach and win the thing like Greece did then we will all be lauding Southgate as a genius but I just don't see it myself.

There doesn't seem that desire to defend like the Greeks did. I don't actually think were playing conservative, we're just playing crap!
 
I think we are also missing out on the set piece goals that was so successful in the world cup. I know Maguire was missing for the first 2 games but apart from when Stones hit the post against Scotland I can't remember another set piece that troubled the opposition. I don't even think Maguire would make that much of a difference but obviously would love to be proven wrong.
 
You can be sure neutrals are nowhere near as negative about England as our fans are, especially going by the ridiculous comments on here. I genuinely think a lot of fans don't understand football sometimes. You can't go all guns blazing every game.
 
sincher said:
You can be sure neutrals are nowhere near as negative about England as our fans are, especially going by the ridiculous comments on here. I genuinely think a lot of fans don't understand football sometimes. You can't go all guns blazing every game.
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Who needs to go all guns blazing? Some shots on goals might help and less tugid football might help. Plus a manager who knows how to get the best out of this team and what his actual first 11 is might also help.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Damn, you English people seriously underestimate your team and manager. 7 points. Zero goals conceded. Never in real danger.
Pragmatism wins you titles, not super flying football.

And btw; i told you that Pickford is great for NT. Best English no1
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English on the caf…

agree with you. Not spectacular, but that’s not what you need. Finished top, which means we get to play at Wembley. Home advantage should not be underestimated.

just remember Portugal 5 years ago. Far from ripping up trees in the group.

importantly, we now have Maguire and Henderson back in the mix - both of who did well yesterday, and will be crucial if we want to win big games.
 
Saka should be starting instead of Foden he actually offered something on the pitch. Especially on the wing it doesn't even make sense to play Foden. The Sancho thing I really don't understand. How can you have one of europes best attacking players just chilling on the bench?
 
I think there is also a point that our warm ups were massively disrupted by the CL final and a lot of the team didn’t play in the friendlies. It feels like Southgate has almost used the group games to try and give players games and get them up to match fitness. Quite impressive we’ve been able to do that and still qualify easily.

That said, I’m worried he is still being too negative and doesn’t know the best combination to play behind Kane. I think Saka should have played himself into the RW spot based on his first half yesterday and I’d probably have Grealish in place of either Mount or Sterling. My suspicion though is that it will be Sterling-Mount-Foden again next week, and I don’t think that really works.
 
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