England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024

TheGame said:
No idea why we need to play Phillips and Rice against Scotland. Surely only one needs to play.
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Doubt Southgate trusts Stones/Mings, so errs on the side of caution and goes for the extra protection of Rice in front, no matter who the opposition is... Like us and McFred. Plus, can’t really drop Phillips after his Croatia performance.

I agree though. I’d play Mount deeper and then bring in Grealish.
 
TheLiverBird said:
You can only beat who ever you get drawn, and we did that to get to the SF’s

England have failed and other better England managers have failed to do that in the past
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Yes, you can. But he struggled against sides he was expected to beat. Games which shouldn't have gone to penalty lotteries did so. And he failed against Croatia so yes, its fair to say he fecked up in games.

The previous England managers underachieving is not relevant. The expectation for an England manager right now isn't just "do better than what we had before and it's fine". At present there is an expectation for a manager to perform for his country with the quality that he has at his disposal. Southgate is a shite manager who has barely passed any tests whatsoever. I don't class the opening game of the Euros as a big test, nor do I classify beating Colombia or Sweden as one. I look at how we were dominated by Beligum in 3rd place playoffs, or how we fecked up against a worse side in the semi finals vs Croatia, etc.

romufc said:
So what?

Does it say on the trophy who you played, what the score was and if it went to penalties?

Do Portugal fans care about how they won the last Euros? They won 1 game in 90 mins, drew 3 games in the group to get through?
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Your point would have some validity if Southgate won a fecking trophy. But he didn't. So when people say "oh we reached the semi's" like it's some big achievement without considering the opponents its just stupid.
 
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ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
And won the game. That’s all that matters.
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We won the game, sure, but you can't deny the decision to play Trippier ahead of two infinitely better options, not to mention omitting Sancho from the squad entirely, was questionable to the extreme.

Do you not think we would have won the game more comfortably had he not made those decisions?
 
Random Task said:
We won the game, sure, but you can't deny the decision to play Trippier ahead of two infinitely better options, not to mention omitting Sancho from the squad entirely, was questionable to the extreme.

Do you not think we would have won the game more comfortably had he not made those decisions?
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Clayton is OleIN. If England would beat Liberia he would say that Southgate is doing great no matter what tactical decision he had, just like he thinks Ole is on the up for beating WBA at home in a bore-fest with a penalty. England will obviously never win with Southgate, just like United never will win anything with Ole. You need good coaching to win things, neither of them is good at that. Exactly like in the WC, favorable draw but still got beat by a better coached team (who is not as good on paper).
 
Random Task said:
We won the game, sure, but you can't deny the decision to play Trippier ahead of two infinitely better options, not to mention omitting Sancho from the squad entirely, was questionable to the extreme.

Do you not think we would have won the game more comfortably had he not made those decisions?
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theres no point in talking hypothetical scenarios.

there will always be debate on team selection.

Every man and his dog thought it was strange to play Trippier, that’s obvious. But he’s explained he wanted the experience and vocality on the left hand side.

he made the decision, won the game. It’s impossible and futile to suggest playing Shaw would have meant we would win 2-0, 3-0, 4-0… just as likely we draw 1-1. Trippier and Mings played well - if Trippier helped Mings, then it worked well.

ref Sancho. He had Grealish, Rashford. sako, DCL to bring on. Again, I would have had Sancho on the bench, but can’t criticise him for thinking otherwise.
 
VP89 said:
Yes, you can. But he struggled against sides he was expected to beat. Games which shouldn't have gone to penalty lotteries did so. And he failed against Croatia so yes, its fair to say he fecked up pretty hard.

The previous England managers underachieving is not relevant. At present there is an expectation for a manager to perform for his country with the quality that he has at his disposal. Southgate is a shite manager who has barely passed any tests whatsoever. I don't class the opening game of the Euros as a big test, nor do I classify beating Colombia or Sweden as one. I look at how we were dominated by Beligum in 3rd place playoffs, or how we fecked up against a worse side in the semi finals vs Croatia, etc.


Your point would have some validity if Southgate won a fecking trophy. But he didn't. So when people say "oh we reached the semi's" like it's some big achievement without considering the opponents its just stupid.
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There is also mental battles he won, winning a penalty shootout in a major tournament. Building a squad morale that he has built is different to any other England Manager.

Clearly there are improvements in the team. You can look at all those things you want but you do realise that Croatia team had the Ballon D'Or winner ?
 
VP89 said:
Yes, you can. But he struggled against sides he was expected to beat. Games which shouldn't have gone to penalty lotteries did so. And he failed against Croatia so yes, its fair to say he fecked up pretty hard.

The previous England managers underachieving is not relevant. At present there is an expectation for a manager to perform for his country with the quality that he has at his disposal. Southgate is a shite manager who has barely passed any tests whatsoever. I don't class the opening game of the Euros as a big test, nor do I classify beating Colombia or Sweden as one. I look at how we were dominated by Beligum in 3rd place playoffs, or how we fecked up against a worse side in the semi finals vs Croatia, etc.


Your point would have some validity if Southgate won a fecking trophy. But he didn't. So when people say "oh we reached the semi's" like it's some big achievement without considering the opponents its just stupid.
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I still don’t get it mate

Respect your view but I disagree

It’s almost like if we got lucky with the draw after qualifying from our group and played seemingly easier Nations all the way to the final, and won the final, Gareth would still get critiqued for being a shit manager

if he gets us to another Semi Final in a major international tournament, basically 2 in a row for Gareth, with All the pressure that comes with these tournaments, would you still want him out?

I personally think our squad is good enough to win the tournament, regardless to the hype surrounding the squads of France, Belgium, Portugal etc, we have imo as good a squad to beat them

and we may have crashed out to Croatia in the World Cup, but we’ve bounced back in some sense to beat them with a good overall performance in our opener, that’s a good start, can’t be complained about
 
romufc said:
There is also mental battles he won, winning a penalty shootout in a major tournament. Building a squad morale that he has built is different to any other England Manager.

Clearly there are improvements in the team. You can look at all those things you want but you do realise that Croatia team had the Ballon D'Or winner ?
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Are you insinuating winning a penalty shoot out is down to southgate? This is mental gymnastics like I've never seen.
Re Croatia - their team was poorer than ours by some level despite having Modric. He had no right throwing that game especially considering the side as 1-0 up with 20 mins to go. You could argue that's a much bigger mental loss than pipping a penalty lottery.
 
Mickson said:
Clayton is OleIN. If England would beat Liberia he would say that Southgate is doing great no matter what tactical decision he had, just like he thinks Ole is on the up for beating WBA at home in a bore-fest with a penalty. England will obviously never win with Southgate, just like United never will win anything with Ole. You need good coaching to win things, neither of them is good at that. Exactly like in the WC, favorable draw but still got beat by a better coached team (who is not as good on paper).
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im not OleIn. I’m all for giving managers a chance.

if Southgate fails in this tournament then he will be gone. But let’s give the guy a chance. The squad seem very happy with him, he’s managed lots of games at international level (at all levels) - and frankly winning is the only thing that matters.

how many games did Portugal win in 90 mins?

this is actually a really difficult group for England. Scotland always raise their game against us, and is therefore a more difficult game than Spain or Holland etc we’re playing them (if you see what i mean), Croatia are a good side and so are the Czech Republic.

that win - when we had difficult prep in the warm up games had taken off the pressure from us.

a good result today means we don’t have the pressure of needing a result in the last game. That can set us up for the knock out games.

of you asked any England fan whether they would accept a 1-0 result in the first game at the Euros, I’d be amazed if everyone didn’t bite their hand off.

if we had lost the game, then the criticism would be warranted, but this is really strange.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
ultimately we will need to play France at some point (most likely…) if we want to get to the final.

momentum is also very important. Lose to Scotland, the third match is going to be difficult.

beat Scotland, we can rotate players, have a stress free game and maybe bring on Maguire as well.
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Absolutely. Form isn’t a switch you can turn on and off. If we purposefully finish 2nd then it’s not as simple as it sounds. Also, if we finish second we’ll likely meet France in the QF. I’d rather just approach every game trying to win, and not overthink it. Portugal & Germany are really not that scary.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Saw a lad walking down the street the other day, he must've only been a teenager. Was wearing an England shirt with Gascoigne on the back it was from 96. He had the round sunglasses on and the mop hair from the time, I thought cool, and that he was way too young to remember the time.
So it made me get onto YouTube and watch this again.
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Sometimes I feel that Gascoigne gets underrated in world football. The things he did that summer was not common. Flicks, dribbles, passes, he had it all and was a joy to watch. You could argue that he played a bit like Ronaldinho or Neymar at times but not with the outrageous tricks.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
Sometimes I feel that Gascoigne gets underrated in world football. The things he did that summer was not common. Flicks, dribbles, passes, he had it all and was a joy to watch. You could argue that he played a bit like Ronaldinho or Neymar at times but not with the outrageous tricks.
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His career overall was a disappointment, mostly due to his personal issues. When he was on it he was fantastic. He loved playing for England more than anything so a lot of his best moments were in that shirt.
 
Mickson said:
Clayton is OleIN. If England would beat Liberia he would say that Southgate is doing great no matter what tactical decision he had, just like he thinks Ole is on the up for beating WBA at home in a bore-fest with a penalty. England will obviously never win with Southgate, just like United never will win anything with Ole. You need good coaching to win things, neither of them is good at that. Exactly like in the WC, favorable draw but still got beat by a better coached team (who is not as good on paper).
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:lol: Get out of here with your Ole bashing :lol:
 
Mickson said:
Clayton is OleIN. If England would beat Liberia he would say that Southgate is doing great no matter what tactical decision he had, just like he thinks Ole is on the up for beating WBA at home in a bore-fest with a penalty. England will obviously never win with Southgate, just like United never will win anything with Ole. You need good coaching to win things, neither of them is good at that. Exactly like in the WC, favorable draw but still got beat by a better coached team (who is not as good on paper).
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I'm Ole in too. I disagree that we'll never win anything with Ole as we're getting closer every year to winning something. A good summer in the transfer market could have us challenging for the league this year.

As for Southgate, I honestly don't know. We definitely have a squad capable of winning the Euros, but I'm not entirely sure we have a coach good enough to get the best out of it. Remains to be seen I guess.

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
theres no point in talking hypothetical scenarios.

there will always be debate on team selection.

Every man and his dog thought it was strange to play Trippier, that’s obvious. But he’s explained he wanted the experience and vocality on the left hand side.

he made the decision, won the game. It’s impossible and futile to suggest playing Shaw would have meant we would win 2-0, 3-0, 4-0… just as likely we draw 1-1. Trippier and Mings played well - if Trippier helped Mings, then it worked well.

ref Sancho. He had Grealish, Rashford. sako, DCL to bring on. Again, I would have had Sancho on the bench, but can’t criticise him for thinking otherwise.
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I get the experience part, but neither Shaw nor Chillwell lack in that department.

The decision not to include Sancho in the squad is one for the ages. Bet you can't explain that one :p
 
Powerhouser said:
The amount of talent England has right now is incredible, could see them being favourites alongside France for the next few tournaments.
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The key thing is to be able to harness that talent and turn it into a team capable of beating the best.
Southgate has a talented squad. Does he have a winning combination.
 
Random Task said:
I'm Ole in too. I disagree that we'll never win anything with Ole as we're getting closer every year to winning something. A good summer in the transfer market could have us challenging for the league this year.

As for Southgate, I honestly don't know. We definitely have a squad capable of winning the Euros, but I'm not entirely sure we have a coach good enough to get the best out of it. Remains to be seen I guess.
I get the experience part, but neither Shaw nor Chillwell lack in that department.

The decision not to include Sancho in the squad is one for the ages. Bet you can't explain that one :p
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I don’t think Shaw and Chillwell have played at a major tournament. As I’ve said, it’s not what I would have done. But he did, and he lives and does by the results.

ref Sancho. I’ve no idea. There’s potentially a lot of reasons why he wasn’t picked.

as an aside, I think it’s a silly decision by UEFA not to allow all the players in the squad to be on the bench.
 
Robindinho said:
Doubt Southgate trusts Stones/Mings, so errs on the side of caution and goes for the extra protection of Rice in front, no matter who the opposition is... Like us and McFred. Plus, can’t really drop Phillips after his Croatia performance.

I agree though. I’d play Mount deeper and then bring in Grealish.
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I understand doing it against Croatia and other better sides but we should go on the front foot against Scotland.
 
Southgate has a safety first approach which I suppose is understandable given the pressure etc. He is aiming to be more like France than Belgium, functional and solid with pace. I think he has a bias towards certain players who did well for him in the WC which I'm not sure I favour. I rate Sterling but re-watching highlights of the WC was reminded just how terrible his finishing is unless the ball is laid on a plate for him. Southgate also has a big club bias which I don't think is suitable. Saw yesterday how Belgium completely changed when they got De Bruyne on. I personally think Grealish would have a similar impact and would lead to more goals. Hope Grealish moves to a big club so he won't be overlooked anymore.

Shaw and Chilwell not having 'big tournament experience' is a little far-fetched though. Shaw has played in many champions league games and Chilwell just won in the final. Games don't get much bigger than that.
 
Trippier decision was ridiculous. There's an element of if you win in football you are correct as a manager, and if you lose you were wrong. At least, many fans and media are so reactionary that this is the overall climate.

However that was just a really bizarre choice, to have a naturally right footed player at left back when he doesn't really have the dribbling ability to exploit being inverted. The crosses are less dangerous and it is just awkward overall.

Hopefully he sees sense against Scotland as we will probably need the extra attacking impetus rather than "experience."

I was not fussed about the Sterling decision. It wasn't a decision on form but I think you had to have a pacey player, and Rashford is also out of form and Sancho hasn't been great for England. That decision is more explainable.
 
Hackman2210 said:
England wont make the qtrs - Wales on the other hand could sneak the semis again - favourable draw for the welsh in the qtrs will see a weekend of wild partying, furious drinking and maybe the odd case of domestic abuse..............
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isn't that a typical weekend in Cardiff on all accounts?
 
InspiRED said:
Southgate has a safety first approach which I suppose is understandable given the pressure etc. He is aiming to be more like France than Belgium, functional and solid with pace. I think he has a bias towards certain players who did well for him in the WC which I'm not sure I favour. I rate Sterling but re-watching highlights of the WC was reminded just how terrible his finishing is unless the ball is laid on a plate for him. Southgate also has a big club bias which I don't think is suitable. Saw yesterday how Belgium completely changed when they got De Bruyne on. I personally think Grealish would have a similar impact and would lead to more goals. Hope Grealish moves to a big club so he won't be overlooked anymore.

Shaw and Chilwell not having 'big tournament experience' is a little far-fetched though. Shaw has played in many champions league games and Chilwell just won in the final. Games don't get much bigger than that.
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At the end of the day you can slate Southgate all you want and we all know the English press are magic at tearing down the English squad in a major tournament but winning is all that matters not style points.

Style points won't get you lifting the trophy if don't defend properly and his safety approach is honestly wise considering the two shit CB's he's had to put out there
 
I'm worried about Robertson tonight - I can see him getting himself so worked-up for the occasion that he'll do something extra cnut-ish to one of the English players.

Shame there aren't really any Liverpool players that could be put up against him as he might take more care against them, but up against a City player, or Rashford, or Sancho - I'd be concerned every time he went in on them he'd try to do some damage.
 
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TheLiverBird said:
I still don’t get it mate

Respect your view but I disagree

It’s almost like if we got lucky with the draw after qualifying from our group and played seemingly easier Nations all the way to the final, and won the final, Gareth would still get critiqued for being a shit manager
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It's his big game pedigree that worries me, together with his management.
TheLiverBird said:
if he gets us to another Semi Final in a major international tournament, basically 2 in a row for Gareth, with All the pressure that comes with these tournaments, would you still want him out?

I personally think our squad is good enough to win the tournament, regardless to the hype surrounding the squads of France, Belgium, Portugal etc, we have imo as good a squad to beat them

and we may have crashed out to Croatia in the World Cup, but we’ve bounced back in some sense to beat them with a good overall performance in our opener, that’s a good start, can’t be complained about
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To the bold bit - he'd have earned more time if he makes it to the semi this year, because there's no route of getting there that don't entail beating a big country. But so far he's proved very little to me.
To the rest, no one is complaining about beating Croatia. They've gotten worse and we've gotten better so a 1-0 win is about what you'd expect even by Southgate standards. But his management and selections are often bizarre. He's a likeable chap but a poor manager. We may well go all the way, who knows. But with him in charge there's a bigger doubt.
 
Mickson said:
Clayton is OleIN. If England would beat Liberia he would say that Southgate is doing great no matter what tactical decision he had, just like he thinks Ole is on the up for beating WBA at home in a bore-fest with a penalty. England will obviously never win with Southgate, just like United never will win anything with Ole. You need good coaching to win things, neither of them is good at that. Exactly like in the WC, favorable draw but still got beat by a better coached team (who is not as good on paper).
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Good job dragging Ole into a discussion about Southgate.
 
Mickson said:
Clayton is OleIN. If England would beat Liberia he would say that Southgate is doing great no matter what tactical decision he had, just like he thinks Ole is on the up for beating WBA at home in a bore-fest with a penalty. England will obviously never win with Southgate, just like United never will win anything with Ole. You need good coaching to win things, neither of them is good at that. Exactly like in the WC, favorable draw but still got beat by a better coached team (who is not as good on paper).
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God awful post.
 
Hopefully neither set of bans boo the players taking a knee and hopefully it’s an entertaining match.
 
Is the way Croatia playing today putting England's performance into perspective? I think so. I'm surprised more people haven't seen how poor Croatia are. They have lost 8 of their last 10 internationals.

We barely laid a glove on Croatia. England seriously need to improve on that performance and stop being so negative. We weren't forced into staying in our half, we chose to.

More positivity against Scotland is a requirement.
 
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MU655 said:
Is the way Croatia playing today putting England's performance into perspective? I think so. I'm surprised more people haven't seen how poor Croatia are. They have lost 8 of their last 10 internationals.

We barely laid a glove on Croatia. England seriously need to improve on that performance and stop being so negative. We weren't forced into staying our half, we chose to.

More positivity against Scotland is a requirement.
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I think it possibly shows that we showed them too much respect. It was still a comfortable win, so no issues but the Czech game is showing we could have been more adventurous and been fine.
 
saivet said:
I think it possibly shows that we showed them too much respect. It was still a comfortable win, so no issues but the Czech game is showing we could have been more adventurous and been fine.
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It is possible. I'm just hoping it is not the game plan as I think it will cost us, and we will see something far more adventurous against Scotland.

We started the game against Croatia well and on the front foot, but I was disappointed with what happened afterwards.
 
MU655 said:
It is possible. I'm just hoping it is not the game plan as I think it will cost us, and we will see something far more adventurous against Scotland.

We started the game against Croatia well and on the front foot, but I was disappointed with what happened afterwards.
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I think the weather was a factor in the energy levels too. I think Southgate will be more adventurous tonight and against Czech.
 
I hope we come out and put Scotland under pressure from the start. We need to move the ball a lot quicker than the last game.
 
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