England Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Don't think it really matters who got picked on the fringes, It's not like he has the tactical capacity to affect games with his management / substitutions. Southgate has his favorites and will play them. They should be able to get out of the group stages but, after that, if he comes up against any competent manager/team, they will be done.
Yeah CM looks particularly poor. Bellingham aside, even his stalwarts who looked good at the Euros are either older or in worse form.
It’s odd to have gone from “one of the best squads at the Euros” to thinking virtually the same squad looks poor barely a year later….A lot of people haven’t kicked on and Southgate’s stock is way down.
Maybe because he's not fit and has played about 30 mins so far this season.
Would have been better off picking Milner.
56minutes played all season. Same thing as with Hazard barely played 25 games in the last 3 seasons and gets picked. Purely based on Reputation
I don't agree with it at all. As I said, in forward selection there is some talent but rest is just poor or average looking from international perspective.
Don't agree at all, as I wrote to poster above. Central midfield is just poor and drop from Scholes-, Lampard-, Gerrard-level is just enormous. I would say that player like Nicky Butt or Gareth Barry would go into this lineup without any trouble. Playing week in and week out doesn't mean anything if you are not good enough. Rice and Bellingham are overated by miles when playing aganst quality players. Centerbacks are just slow with no pace at all. There will be 3 centerbacks in starting lineup and that is not because they are good. Fullbacks aren't good enough defenders looking internationally.
I wouldn't bank on it.
I’m confident he’d be dead in the water. Public support has already waned for him. The knives have been sharpened. He’s not coming home if we go out in the group stage.
Southgate has a real boner for anyone so long as they play in the PL. They don't even need to play well; just play in the PL. That's it.
The inclusion of Gallagher is atrocious. On current form and current reputation, if he played for Napoli or Valencia, he wouldn't get a look in, but because he's in the PL and at Chelsea, it happens. If Tomori or Smalling played for Bournemouth and Everton, it wouldn't even be a debate if they'd be included, but apparently playing for Serie A winners isn't sufficient enough. Granted Abraham hasn't been at the races so far this season, but where was his inclusion last season when he was red hot for Roma? Exactly. Southgate doesn't even try to hide it. He'll prioritise PL players in worse form than non-PL players in better form. Hell, it took fecking Bellingham playing out of his skin long enough at Dortmund to get Southgate to turn his head.
Absolute turnip.
The inclusion of Gallagher is atrocious. On current form and current reputation, if he played for Napoli or Valencia, he wouldn't get a look in, but because he's in the PL and at Chelsea, it happens. If Tomori or Smalling played for Bournemouth and Everton, it wouldn't even be a debate if they'd be included, but apparently playing for Serie A winners isn't sufficient enough. Granted Abraham hasn't been at the races so far this season, but where was his inclusion last season when he was red hot for Roma? Exactly. Southgate doesn't even try to hide it. He'll prioritise PL players in worse form than non-PL players in better form. Hell, it took fecking Bellingham playing out of his skin long enough at Dortmund to get Southgate to turn his head.
Absolute turnip.
56minutes played all season. Same thing as with Hazard barely played 25 games in the last 3 seasons and gets picked. Purely based on Reputation
I just don't agree with this at all. It's international football in a tournament with effectively no warm up. More than ever, you need to pick players who understand your system and have proven that they can do well in that set-up. If Phillips isn't fit enough, he won't play, and I'd still be happy with taking that risk in a 26 man squad.
It goes back to the Klose/ Podolski Germany teams. They fit perfectly in those roles, the manager trusted them, and so they kept getting selected even when not playing for their clubs. That seems smart to me.
He dropped Smalling when he was first choice at United, don't think he'd pick him if he played for Bournemouth or Everton. You may have a point on Tomori though. I'd pick him over Maguire and Coady. Abraham is one of a number of forwards who missed out so don't think it's to do with being in the PL or not, he's just similiar level. Overall sample size isn't really big enough to say if it's a factor, and if it is a factor how much so or how much its worth criticising, because there simply isn't enough English players playing abroad. Even with Tomori, there's also Guehi, Tarkowski, Burn, Mings etc in the PL not getting picked either. He picked Trippier, Bellingham, Sancho etc when playing abroad. In fact Sancho has fallen out of favour since moving to the PL, and Bellingham was called up when only 17 which showed a lot of faith from Southgate.
A lot of talk here about how this is the worst CM ever.
While I agree you dont have strength in depth, Rice and Bellingham would both cost £100m each. Not many, if any other squads could say that.
I think the problem is the defence and you will play 3 at the back to try and compensate which will leave the midfield short.
Not sure he needed to take 8 forwards.
While I agree you dont have strength in depth, Rice and Bellingham would both cost £100m each. Not many, if any other squads could say that.
I think the problem is the defence and you will play 3 at the back to try and compensate which will leave the midfield short.
Not sure he needed to take 8 forwards.
name your 26
They wouldn't cost £100m if they weren't English imo.
Those 2 players actually played for their clubs. Klose at 37/38 played 30 games for Lazio and had 8g/8a.
Playing 56min in 3months and a half and then getting picked up is fecking embarassing no matter how you put it.
In all of 2022 he played less than 700minutes = 7.7 games
He plays for a club that goes all the way in almost every competition yet barely plays for them and then even gets rewarded by being called up to the NT for the WC. It's like we're living in some sort of a bizarro world.
Those players were fit and ready to play.
There's literally no point in bringing a player to any tournament who is not fit and able to play if needed.
Well Iam absolutely not schocked at all that Sancho PepsiCola and neither Lingard are in the WC squad, but why the hell is Harry in there, that is absolutely mind boggling, same goes for Sterling. Such a weird selection of players. At least England has the easiest group, should go through even with this bizzare bunch
Dan burn would have been the perfect option for left centre back in the usual back 3 southgate goes for, burn has played there for brighton
Final last Euro??
Bellingham probably would still considering how good he has been at such a young age but definitely not rice
Hope we lose all our games and the whole of England lose all interest in the shitty world cup
Dan Burn has been incredible for 18 months at least. I can't believe he hasn't got a cap yet.
Good to see Maddison in the squad although he might be the WC equivalent of Grealish at the Euros. That elusive missing piece always out of reach.
it’s easy to analyse weaknesses as we are more familiar with the players (central defence particularly) but I don’t know which countries have true strength in all areas. Our progress will probably depend on penalty shoot outs as I see this side as low scoring, low conceding.
it’s easy to analyse weaknesses as we are more familiar with the players (central defence particularly) but I don’t know which countries have true strength in all areas. Our progress will probably depend on penalty shoot outs as I see this side as low scoring, low conceding.
I just don't trust him to
Maybe I’m biased because as a Chelsea fan (although … I wouldn’t have picked Gallagher … so..), but how many of Englands current CBs have MotM awards in the CL knockout rounds on their CV’s? Chalobah has been playing really well in general, especially considering all of our CB’s have had to deal with NO DM cover. I looked it ups d apparently he was the second fastest player on the Chelsea squad behind only “Turbo Tino”, and his distribution isn’t bad.
In addition, if you take Ben White (good call) AND you are probably going to try for a back 3 … in addition to adding pace, wouldn’t you want someone who actually played the left side of a back 3? Maguire or Stine would be middle, White would be right side. Stones lack of speed would get exposed on left. Walker is coming off injury and doesn’t play left. Dier is … limited and wouldn’t play left.
Tomori would have been the obvious option, but Chalobah has been better than him, this year certainly. And neither get a look in.
And if I were taking a Chelsea CM it would have been RLC, not Conor. In this international matches everything is super tight, and one or two careless passes could be the only gap a team gets. Conor is good for 5 of those a half. He IS exciting, but exciting and careless players are not built for tourneys like the WC.
RLC (not a great option either …. Does no one over there want to be a mid?) would at least give you a mid over 5’8” who isn’t a walking statue (looking at you KP). He has grown pretty reliable at carry the ball forward and linking play. And when he hasn’t had to play RWB he’s been pretty good .
If you’re going to go so defensive that you start Rice in front of a back 3 … why could t you try playing both Mount and Foden. Mount CAN play deeper, scrap and press. So can Maddison for that matter
It would seem to matter less to Southgate about position changed considering a lot of these players aren’t playing regularly AT ALL for their teams.
Southgate seems so awful …
In addition, if you take Ben White (good call) AND you are probably going to try for a back 3 … in addition to adding pace, wouldn’t you want someone who actually played the left side of a back 3? Maguire or Stine would be middle, White would be right side. Stones lack of speed would get exposed on left. Walker is coming off injury and doesn’t play left. Dier is … limited and wouldn’t play left.
Tomori would have been the obvious option, but Chalobah has been better than him, this year certainly. And neither get a look in.
And if I were taking a Chelsea CM it would have been RLC, not Conor. In this international matches everything is super tight, and one or two careless passes could be the only gap a team gets. Conor is good for 5 of those a half. He IS exciting, but exciting and careless players are not built for tourneys like the WC.
RLC (not a great option either …. Does no one over there want to be a mid?) would at least give you a mid over 5’8” who isn’t a walking statue (looking at you KP). He has grown pretty reliable at carry the ball forward and linking play. And when he hasn’t had to play RWB he’s been pretty good .
If you’re going to go so defensive that you start Rice in front of a back 3 … why could t you try playing both Mount and Foden. Mount CAN play deeper, scrap and press. So can Maddison for that matter
It would seem to matter less to Southgate about position changed considering a lot of these players aren’t playing regularly AT ALL for their teams.
Southgate seems so awful …
Southgate will waste the talents of this squad.
I take it Sterling is only in the squad because he’s been part of waistcoats previous squads?
Martinez is an equally shite manager to Southgate. I love Hazard but he may as well retire at this point.56minutes played all season. Same thing as with Hazard barely played 25 games in the last 3 seasons and gets picked. Purely based on Reputation
2 decent midfielders is not enough for a tournament. Philips is not only not international level but is unfit. Gallagher and Mount are not a CMs. We are so weak in this position it’s ridiculous.
Our CB’s are also complete dogshit. But I do not have much fault for Southgate, there really isn’t much choice.
In terms of Forwards, they name Maddison and Foden in there and they are 10’s not forwards. The wide players are truly some of the most inconsistent in the World. It’s hard to tell if he has made the right choice.
Again, are players are poor, the manager is poor. This team will be knocked out the moment it leaves the group.
England will not be playing Real Madrid or Man City. They’ll be playing another international side with glaring weaknesses.
Irrelevant - he has had about a total of 30 minutes of football this season. He wasn't even very good last season.
Pickford
White Stones Maguire Shaw
Rice
Saka Maddison Bellingham Rashford
Kane
White Stones Maguire Shaw
Rice
Saka Maddison Bellingham Rashford
Kane
Yeah he's never fancied Tomori at all,like you say it always looked likely he would go with his trusted lieutenants there. Feel for JWP who has missed out on last three tournaments and would have offered real set piece threat. Just remember how effective we were on those in last World Cup.
You get your pace from Saka in this. Foden has to take either Maddison or Rashford’s spot. Foden is one of the best creative forces in all of football right now.
Not what I said do try to keep upWhy does Southgate need an excuse to pick Wilson over Toney? Even without the betting story I don't think anyone would really care.
England's midfield has had very little creativity for years,probably have to go all the way back to golden generation with Scholesy
Ruled Toney out when didn't get on pitch in either of those two Nations League games
Yeah really harsh to punish him for that
First of all, you get much more than just 'pace' from Saka, who funnily enough has created more than Foden this season, averaging 2 key passes per game to Foden's 1.4. He has also made 6 assists to Foden's 3. Maddison comes out on to in comparison to Foden who, according to you is ''one of the best creative forces in all of football right now''.
Because Phillips is essential to Southgates mind numbing approach to midfield so he brings him along despite only having one working shoulder.
When I watched Southgate's interview on SSN earlier there was a distinct impression he only picked Toney for Nations League games due to combination of peer pressure and Wilson injury.
Tomori may well get a proper look in once Southgate leaves so hard as it is right now he just needs to bide his time.
Tomori may well get a proper look in once Southgate leaves so hard as it is right now he just needs to bide his time.
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