England Discussion

dbs235 said:
He does though, how often does he have win or go home games for Spurs? He's scored countless goals for Spurs against tough opposition, often with no support from his team mates. He often has to be the creator and the goal scorer for his team.
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Go on then. Name them.

Again against tough opposition, in a win or go home situation.

Here's the thing I've seen Kane disappear in every big game against tough opposition in the knockout stages (barring Germany ro16 Euro 2020) in his career, for us to expect he suddenly becomes some big game player is hopeful, to say the least.

And by disappear, I mean disappear, shy's away from the ball, none of the usual brilliant link up and passing ability that he has, etc.
 
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the_cliff said:
Go on then. Name them.

Again against tough opposition.
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I'm not sure how to find his goal record vs the top 6 but it will be quite substantial other than vs United. Off the top of my head though isn't he top scorer in the North London derby, remember his performance against Man City away last season, this season I can think of goals he's scored vs Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool already.
 
dbs235 said:
I'm not sure how to find his goal record vs the top 6 but it will be quite substantial other than vs United. Off the top of my head though isn't he top scorer in the North London derby, remember his performance against Man City away last season, this season I can think of goals he's scored vs Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool already.
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I'm not talking about the league. I'm talking about knock outs against good opposition, it also doesn't have to be goals, just an overall good performance, not a disappearing act.
 
the_cliff said:
I'm not talking about the league. I'm talking about knock outs against good opposition, it also doesn't have to be goals, just an overall good performance, not a disappearing act.
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Didn’t he help them defeat Madrid and Juventus that season they were playing well in the CL? (2017/18 I think)
 
I think England actually match up very well with France. It'll be interesting if Southgate focuses all of his attention on Mbappe and shifts to the back 5 or sticks with the 4-3-3 system that has been working so far.

This is the one game where I think a back 5 is actually defensible even if I think the latter system can work, especially if he uses Walker almost like a third centre back like he did today, and Giroud is just about the perfect striker for Maguire to deal with. I guess it comes down to who Southgate prefers to play in that wide right position. Is he happy for Henderson to keep drifting out there or would he prefer an actual wing back like Trippier?
 
the_cliff said:
I'm not talking about the league. I'm talking about knock outs against good opposition, it also doesn't have to be goals, just an overall good performance, not a disappearing act.
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You can't keep on changing the goalposts.

He might not be 'clutch' as say Ronaldo in yesteryear etc, but he's always proven his critics wrong and is a class act.
 
Pintu said:
Didn’t he help them defeat Madrid and Juventus that season they were playing well in the CL? (2017/18 I think)
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Madrid was group stage, lost to Juve first ko stage...

The Corinthian said:
You can't keep on changing the goalposts.

He might not be 'clutch' as say Ronaldo in yesteryear etc, but he's always proven his critics wrong and is a class act.
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I'm not, I have consistently said against a good team in a win or go home situation. League is completely different to a one off knockout stage game.

Which is why someone mentioned Germany ro16, which was probably his best ko stage performance against good opposition to be fair. No one is yet to suggest another, which proves my point.
 
the_cliff said:
Madrid was group stage, lost to Juve first ko stage...


I'm not, I have consistently said against a good team in a win or go home situation. League is completely different to a one off knockout stage game.
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You say good team but he's done it against good teams in the league. Surely that should count?
 
Stick Walker on Mbappe and leave the boys up front to do the business.

England 2-1
 
The Corinthian said:
You say good team but he's done it against good teams in the league. Surely that should count?
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The thing is this topic started in regards to the upcoming qf against France and is not a discussion on Kane the player but how Kane's past performances in big KO stage games doesn't fill me with confidence. That's all. I hope we do win but like I said before, if we're relying on Kane and taking the game to France then it will be curtains for us, we need to play 5 at the back, invite pressure and try to hit them with quick transitions. Everyone who wants to play a 4-3-3, control possession and take the game to France have lost it.

But when we do inevitably play 5 at the back, everyone will be out for Southgate's head, despite that being our best chance of winning....
 
If Southgate decides to go full attack, I can see having a brilliant game, and England having a good chance. If he goes to the 5-3-2 defensive, then I see France winning.

I think these two are the best teams in the tournament.
 
the_cliff said:
The thing is this topic started in regards to the upcoming qf against France and is not a discussion on Kane the player but how Kane's past performances in big KO stage games doesn't fill me with confidence. That's all. I hope we do win but like I said before, if we're relying on Kane and taking the game to France then it will be curtains for us, we need to play 5 at the back, invite pressure and try to hit them with quick transitions. Everyone who wants to play a 4-3-3, control possession and take the game to France have lost it.

But when we do inevitably play 5 at the back, everyone will be out for Southgate's head, despite that being our best chance of winning....
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I disagree but fair enough. I mean, I still think France are way too strong but as a number 9 there aren't many better than Kane in world football.

Personally, I would like to see him stay higher up the pitch rather than continuously dropping deep, but it's paying dividends so what do I know.
 
Being serious I do think England will win the whole thing if they can beat France. Think it’ll give them that lift they need to prove they’re as good as they should be. Big if, mind.
 
I’d like to see England keep the 4:3:3 and have Philips man-mark Griezmann. Saka on the right, to help out Walker. In defense it can even become 5:3:2, with Saka at wingback.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Shocking news about Sterling. News like that would shake the whole squad, fair play to them for keeping focused & hopefully things are ok for Sterling.
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Honest question: How does this continue to happen in the UK?
I can’t remember the last professional athlete in America having their residence broken into because they were “out of town/country”
I’m not trying to make this a US v England question, just genuinely wondering how this seems to happen so often in the HK
 
Scarecrow said:
I’d like to see England keep the 4:3:3 and have Philips man-mark Griezmann. Saka on the right, to help out Walker. In defense it can even become 5:3:2, with Saka at wingback.
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Yeah I wouldn't tinker with the trio by bringing in Phillips but I really do think the 4-3-3 is the teams most solid defensive option even though the back 5 understandably might tempt him. I guess it comes down to whether or not he trusts Walker to handle Mbappe.
 
If he goes with a back 5 my concern is he then leaves us with a 2 man midfield. Ideally it would have to be 352 with rashford up top with kane and the same midfield
 
chris123 said:
I think England actually match up very well with France.
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I'm actually starting to agree with this. Felt relatively confident France would prevail in the next round after Poland, but seeing how this England team plays I'm actually getting a sneaky suspicion that this might be a very tricky game for France.
 
the_cliff said:
The thing is this topic started in regards to the upcoming qf against France and is not a discussion on Kane the player but how Kane's past performances in big KO stage games doesn't fill me with confidence. That's all. I hope we do win but like I said before, if we're relying on Kane and taking the game to France then it will be curtains for us, we need to play 5 at the back, invite pressure and try to hit them with quick transitions. Everyone who wants to play a 4-3-3, control possession and take the game to France have lost it.

But when we do inevitably play 5 at the back, everyone will be out for Southgate's head, despite that being our best chance of winning....
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This is just absolute nonsense. Suddenly pivoting to 5 at the back is exactly what France will want and will immediately give them a massive psychological boost. Our biggest asset is our frontline. You don't sacrifice that to put our eggs into a defensive basket that is relatively average. I can't believe someone can hold this opinion and be so cock sure about it. We need to take the game to France. The midfield battle is there to be won and is extremely winnable.
 
England v France and Argentina v Netherlands

Two proper matches :drool:
 
Without doubt the biggest underdogs we have been in KO game since Brazil in 2002. After being close to meeting at the later stages of a tournament for years it's finally happening.
 
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the_cliff said:
In every big game I've ever watched Kane play against big opposition when it means something, for England and for Spurs he's gone missing. I've watched a lot of Kane in the premier league and for England, he's scored plenty of goals and yet the only big goal I remember him scoring of the top of my head was the penalty against Denmark in the semi final of the Euros. Correct me if I'm wrong though, he plays well against opposition he's expected to beat but when it comes to the 50/50 games such as the one coming up against France he's never performed, not once.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Kane has scored 5 out of Englands last 12 in knockout football before tonight. That hardly strikes me as someone who doesn't do it when it matters.

People will be suggesting giroud is better than him next.. Oh wait.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Being serious I do think England will win the whole thing if they can beat France. Think it’ll give them that lift they need to prove they’re as good as they should be. Big if, mind.
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Only IF they win and get some favours in that bottom half of the draw too
 
redcucumber said:
This is just absolute nonsense. Suddenly pivoting to 5 at the back is exactly what France will want and will immediately give them a massive psychological boost. Our biggest asset is our frontline. You don't sacrifice that to put our eggs into a defensive basket that is relatively average. I can't believe someone can hold this opinion and be so cock sure about it. We need to take the game to France. The midfield battle is there to be won and is extremely winnable.
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I hope we decide to play like that just to end this delusion.

We didn't win the midfield battle against the USA but we can win the midfield battle against France. Ok. :lol:
 
the_cliff said:
I hope we decide to play like that just to end this delusion.

We didn't win the midfield battle against the USA but we can win the midfield battle against France. Ok. :lol:
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I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong but if you're looking at that USA game it's an unfair comparison as we have quite literally have had an additional player in midfield in the Wales/Senegal games compared with the USA game.

I see an argument for playing 5 at the back but I also see an argument for playing the 4-3-3; I certainly wouldn't suggest we play an attack minded 4-3-3 but I see no reason why a midfield of Rice/Henderson/Bellingham couldn't stifle France out of possession and then outnumber them in possession, even more so with Foden drifting inside. They leave themselves susceptible to counter attacks and Rashford could be an important player if we do bring him in, as they leave reasonable spaces between centre backs & full backs.

We're outsiders in this game, no doubt about it, but we've got players that can hurt them if we pick our moments well - I think we'll work on a few specific moves such as Kane dropping deeper than usual when Rabiot goes forward to link with Hernandez/Mbappe because we know Upamecano will follow him, which opens a big gap in behind them if we can win the ball and transition quickly.
 
France is a stern test but it's genuinely 50-50 for me; I can't see a favourite. England can just find a level seemingly out of nowhere and blitz a team with two or three goals in quick succession, no matter how sluggish they might appear during the game. France on the other hand have the most explosive player at the tournament in Mbappe and a solid midfield.

I still think Spain are the team that are probably the most dangerous to England.
 
France is favorite by virtue of them having been the best team of the last 25 years. I believe they still miss Kante though in midfield even though Griezmann has done a great job overall plugging some of these midfield holes.

This France team is the Mbappe show. He will get his chances, England has to be lethal at taking theirs. I expect a cagey first half. Good to see some proper usual suspects in the quarters so far. Big thumbs up for that!
 
Scary when you look at how many Euros/WC the other teams have won since our last success

France 4
Brazil 3
Spain 3
Argentina 2
Netherlands 1
Portugal 1
 
Pressure will be on them not us for a change because majority don't give us a chance
 
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