If England can get 5 wickets today, it's on.
England Cricket Winter 2017/18 - Ashes & NZ
- Thread starter ArmchairCritic
- Start date
He's a rubbish batsman outside England when you need him to score runs. He's not a patch on Lyon as a spinner. What exactly is he doing in an Ashes side? The only thing keeping him in the playing 11 is the absence of Stokes as the all rounder and the lack of a half decent spinner. Mason Crane will be the first choice spinner when he's ready. It'll make the team more balanced and attacking as well.
Was expecting Eng to get 500+ with two set batsmen's going really well.
This looks like a road which is why England should be disappointed to get just 400
Fecking useless.
Another test, another day England fail to drive home a position of strength. The balance of the tail without Stokes is horrendous.
Had a dream last night Bayliss resigned which is the first cricket dream in my entire life.
Had a dream last night Bayliss resigned which is the first cricket dream in my entire life.
Moeen is like Rooney, a purple-patch player. His bowling has not been helped by not getting overs pre-series and by splitting his bowling finger. Not seen a batsman as capable from going to the ridiculous to the sublime as quickly as Moeen.
If England do go on a lose this test (don’t think they will as the weather for Sunday and Monday isn’t great) then hopefully they make wholesale changes
Stoneman
Lawrence
Livingston
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Curren
Overton
Leach
Would rather have Livingston at 4 with Root at 3 but evey man and his dog knows Root ain’t moving from 4.
Can’t do any worse than the shower of shite that has been served up for 2.5 tests
Stoneman
Lawrence
Livingston
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Curren
Overton
Leach
Would rather have Livingston at 4 with Root at 3 but evey man and his dog knows Root ain’t moving from 4.
Can’t do any worse than the shower of shite that has been served up for 2.5 tests
Lawrence isn't an opener? Stokes will not play until his case has been cleared. Would be weird for Leach to get the call ahead of Crane who they took on tour as their back-up spinner.
True he’s not an opener, but he can hold a bat which is 1 more thing than cook’s been able to do for the past 12 months.
Correct with Stokes, but he hasn’t been charged with anything yet so no reason why he can’t play, should be backing their players not throwing them under a bus
Correct with Crane but I rate Leach as the better spinner
Steve Smith is so good.
That was some collapse
England need to break this partnership to have any hope in this test..
On a side note,I know Australian selectors were blasted for some of their selections during the start of the series,but they seemed to have worked out well in the end..
On a side note,I know Australian selectors were blasted for some of their selections during the start of the series,but they seemed to have worked out well in the end..
Australia are in the Zone.
Still 6 wickets left and they are streaking ahead
Still 6 wickets left and they are streaking ahead
Smith is incredible. Has really developed into an all time great.
Not yet. Still plenty of time for him to fail. On the verge, though.
Steve Smith records this test:
*Only the 4th ever batsman to score two double centuries in Ashes history (Bradman 8, Hammond 4, Simpson 2 and Smith 2)
*Passes Sobers for the most runs for any batsman in history through the first 108 innings of a career. (Not bad for a part timer/spinner who started out batting at 8)
*108 innings for his 22nd test century, the 3rd fastest to 22 in history behind Bradman and Gavaskar
*4th consecutive year of 1000 runs, only the 2nd batsman behind Hayden (5 years) to achieve this feat.
*Only the 4th ever batsman to score two double centuries in Ashes history (Bradman 8, Hammond 4, Simpson 2 and Smith 2)
*Passes Sobers for the most runs for any batsman in history through the first 108 innings of a career. (Not bad for a part timer/spinner who started out batting at 8)
*108 innings for his 22nd test century, the 3rd fastest to 22 in history behind Bradman and Gavaskar
*4th consecutive year of 1000 runs, only the 2nd batsman behind Hayden (5 years) to achieve this feat.
He's a run machine.
Best to wait until his career is over before deciding that, I remember Ricky Ponting averaging 60 for a long time in his career but poor form at the back end of his career it dropped by 9 runs.
Smith is a run machine but he is awful to watch.
3-0 incoming. Inexcusable that we go from 368-4 to just over 400 all out 
They should be making 500+ from that position comfortably.
They should be making 500+ from that position comfortably.
It is a flat pitch and 400 is now looking below par. England are clearly lacking that bowler to create something out of nothing on a pitch as flat as this. However if it continues to remain flat, there is no reason they cannot bat through to the close especially with rain predicted as well.
I’m sorry to say this but Root has really stagnated as a batsman
Steve Smith is a great player - but he is ugly to watch, like a frog in a blender.
We know cricket is about runs and wickets - and he gorges on the former.
But don't ask me watch any of his innings: it's pure torture, no style or elegance.
Well done to him though; a sort of Aussie version of Chanderpaul, but even more effective and awkward for the opposition.
We know cricket is about runs and wickets - and he gorges on the former.
But don't ask me watch any of his innings: it's pure torture, no style or elegance.
Well done to him though; a sort of Aussie version of Chanderpaul, but even more effective and awkward for the opposition.
They shouldn't have made him captain.. Should have let him get on with scoring runs.. Maybe made Broad captain with Cook and Anderson as vice captains maybe..
Get to 650 on the first session and then declare
Aus will win by an innings, and inside that same day
Aus will win by an innings, and inside that same day
1 day of good cricket followed by 2 bad days of cricket. It's hard not to be tempted to blow it all up really.
Cook - Looks done, probably needs a prolonged break as 147 (IIRC) consecutive tests is bound to wear him down (although he's not part of the limited overs stuff). I'd give him the NZ tour off, call up Hameed, and then sit down with him in the summer to see how feels.
Stoneman - I like his character and I think he deserves a summer to show he can convert starts into 100s. Him batting at Chester Le Street should stand him in good stead for pitches at home.
Vince - Bin him. Perhaps blood Joe Clarke or Dan Lawrence on the NZ tour. In an ideal world with everyone in form I'd have Cook, Stoneman and Hameed as the top 3.
Root - He's probably the only nailed on selection in this team anymore which means he has to be captain unfortunately. I think he'll kick on with bat and he'll become a good captain. Needs more support from the coaching team.
Malan - Again seems to have a good attitude. His 100 this test will give him another summer but he doesn't seem like a long term option.
Bairstow - Alongside Root the only guy who demands selection whatever the conditions I feel. Tempted to have him at 5 without the pressure of keeping.
Ali - As I said before can have some stonking tests but then a bunch of stinkers follow. Not been helped with the lack of clarity on his role, looks like he understands how to be a good spinner in England but needs to work on his skillset outside of England. Lyon took a while to settle into the player we see now and I think Ali will continue to develop but right now he needs to be taken out of the firing line.
Woakes - A fundamentally good cricketer and seemingly affable chap but he's living off of one good summer with his bowling. Warner did say last test he was bowling as quick as he's seen him but Broad/Woakes/Anderson are far to similar to coexist. His batting however means I'd be tempted to drop Broad and not him.
C.Overton - Looks to have a lot of heart and he'll play a decent amount of tests going forward but probably needs to add a lick of pace and an ability to reverse it to flourish around the world.
Broad - Was probably unlucky over the summer to not take the wickets he deserved and his knack for a match-winning spell is something no other England bowler can emulate but it does feel a little bit that he's living off past glories right now. Lacks the craft of a true top class bowler like Steyn. His batting has never been the same since he took that nasty bouncer to the face from Varun Aaron either.
Anderson - His away record has been dissected in some depth but he's got the skillset to at the very least hold up an end abroad. Getting on a bit and probably needs to be rotated a little bit.
Looking at all that you need an opener, a no. 3, an all-rounder, a proper spinner and two quick bowlers. I reckon long-term Hameed and Stokes fill in two of those roles but I have no idea about the rest. Is it really sensible to throw in talented young players like Lawrence, Clarke or Crane and potentially destroy their confidence before they've fully developed? Or, like Hameed, is it worth seeing if they have the temperament? Is it better to choose short-term stop-gaps like Malan or do you chuck them in and let them develop on the world stage?
Definitely need a new coaching team although I'm not sure who is around with the correct profile to coach and improve this England team. Got a feeling Flower will end up coach again.
Cook - Looks done, probably needs a prolonged break as 147 (IIRC) consecutive tests is bound to wear him down (although he's not part of the limited overs stuff). I'd give him the NZ tour off, call up Hameed, and then sit down with him in the summer to see how feels.
Stoneman - I like his character and I think he deserves a summer to show he can convert starts into 100s. Him batting at Chester Le Street should stand him in good stead for pitches at home.
Vince - Bin him. Perhaps blood Joe Clarke or Dan Lawrence on the NZ tour. In an ideal world with everyone in form I'd have Cook, Stoneman and Hameed as the top 3.
Root - He's probably the only nailed on selection in this team anymore which means he has to be captain unfortunately. I think he'll kick on with bat and he'll become a good captain. Needs more support from the coaching team.
Malan - Again seems to have a good attitude. His 100 this test will give him another summer but he doesn't seem like a long term option.
Bairstow - Alongside Root the only guy who demands selection whatever the conditions I feel. Tempted to have him at 5 without the pressure of keeping.
Ali - As I said before can have some stonking tests but then a bunch of stinkers follow. Not been helped with the lack of clarity on his role, looks like he understands how to be a good spinner in England but needs to work on his skillset outside of England. Lyon took a while to settle into the player we see now and I think Ali will continue to develop but right now he needs to be taken out of the firing line.
Woakes - A fundamentally good cricketer and seemingly affable chap but he's living off of one good summer with his bowling. Warner did say last test he was bowling as quick as he's seen him but Broad/Woakes/Anderson are far to similar to coexist. His batting however means I'd be tempted to drop Broad and not him.
C.Overton - Looks to have a lot of heart and he'll play a decent amount of tests going forward but probably needs to add a lick of pace and an ability to reverse it to flourish around the world.
Broad - Was probably unlucky over the summer to not take the wickets he deserved and his knack for a match-winning spell is something no other England bowler can emulate but it does feel a little bit that he's living off past glories right now. Lacks the craft of a true top class bowler like Steyn. His batting has never been the same since he took that nasty bouncer to the face from Varun Aaron either.
Anderson - His away record has been dissected in some depth but he's got the skillset to at the very least hold up an end abroad. Getting on a bit and probably needs to be rotated a little bit.
Looking at all that you need an opener, a no. 3, an all-rounder, a proper spinner and two quick bowlers. I reckon long-term Hameed and Stokes fill in two of those roles but I have no idea about the rest. Is it really sensible to throw in talented young players like Lawrence, Clarke or Crane and potentially destroy their confidence before they've fully developed? Or, like Hameed, is it worth seeing if they have the temperament? Is it better to choose short-term stop-gaps like Malan or do you chuck them in and let them develop on the world stage?
Definitely need a new coaching team although I'm not sure who is around with the correct profile to coach and improve this England team. Got a feeling Flower will end up coach again.
Test average of just over 52, ODI average of 50, ranked 3rd best test player in the world. He's poor in form, but is still a quality batsmen.
i love watching Steve Smith. Amazing mental fortitude and concentration and leaves the opposition floundering to figure out how to make him give them a chance let alone get him out. Love sportsmen and women of this ilk, Schmeichel, Nadal, Kareem and the like. Tough position for England, bowlers have racked up the overs again and the Aussie lower order has shown it can fire. I can See Australia batting till tea and then letting their pace bowlers loose on the England top order.
Hameed had an absolute shocker of a season, right decision not to call him up, it would have destroyed his confidence. Hope he can break back through, think he can be a quality player. Other players to look at are Rory Burns, 3rd highest scorer in Division 1 last season and Liam Livingstone who also looks a good prospect. Spin wise, we are struggling hence by Ali is playing. Crane can hardly break into his county team. This will be a big issue going forward. Bowling wise, Jamie Porter is not too far from the team, 75 wickets last season at an average of just over 16. If he carries that on, he can't be ignored.
I think Stoneman looks a good prospect as opener, Malan really needs to kick on. With regard to getting through the series, it will be difficult to bring Crane in and lose more batting in Ali especially Woakes is coming in at 7 therefore they may have to consider playing 4 bowlers if they wish to have Crane for the next test.
Guy scores at almost a 60 SR. Hardly a boring cnut like Chanderpaul or Kallis.
Hameed had a broken finger anyway so was never available for selection but I just have a good gut feeling about him and that he's past his issues. Wasn't impressed by Livingstone in the T20s but he did score a bunch of runs for the Lions in Sri Lanka last winter. Lancs have made him captain so I expect him to develop a lot this year.
Spin wise we are looking ok but there's a huge generational gap. Bess, Crane, Parkinson and Virdi look to have a lot of potential but they are all very young.
Fast bowling wise, too many medium pacers and not enough quicks. I think a lot of comes down to the mindset of England as a cricketing nation, the culture of coaching this creates and the pitches we produce. Coaching wise there's a lot of focus on fundamental correctness and strength and conditioning and not enough encouragement of flair and uniqueness. English bowlers aren't drilled to just go out and bowl fast, you don't see bowlers with whippy actions like Mitchell Johnson or Shaun Tait because that'll be coached right out of them from 16. They absolutely frazzled the shit out of Steven Finn.
This is compounded by the pitches we create which reward medium seamers, look at Darren Stevens up at Kent at the age of 41 taking 60 wickets in Division 2. Where is the incentive to bowl fast when you bowl 70mph dibbly-dobblers that will explode off the pitch in April? These seaming pitches also have a subsequent impact on the batsmen we develop not being used to fast bowlers and spinners not getting a chance at all for half the season. With so much focus on T20 it seems unlikely that the ECB will even have a window to play county games in the correct conditions that will facilitate the ideal development of fast bowlers, spinners and batsmen congruently. The July-August period is the dryest and when you could theoretically create pitches like the one England are playing on now but T20 will nix any opportunity for players to play in that period, there were 3 Div 1 fixtures per team in that 2 month period last season in a 14 game season.
Apologies to all for the wordiness of the last few posts but I'm really down on the current and long-term future of the England team.
Cook is a joke, what is that 80 runs in 3 tests so far?
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Right then Malan and Bairstow you two need to bat until tea tomorrow if there’s any chance of not getting pumped 5-0 again
I think England have actually shown some fight and there are some positive signs there. The reason why England are getting thrashed is because their bowling is ineffective in Australian conditions and therefore England aren’t able to consistently put enough pressure on the Ozzies. England are crying out for a quickie and a world class spinner. What people on here seem to forget is just how good Starc, Hazlewood and Cummings are. All 3 are bowling 90mph accurately. That delivery this morning by Starc to get Vince out was one of most unplayable deliveries I’ve ever seen. But England’s top order batting hasn’t been that bad at all all things considering. Cook and Root have been out of touch, but Malan, Vince, Stoneman and Bairstow have all been decent. I would say England have stronger batting than Australia even considering Smith, but that England’s bowling attack lacks pace to put the Ozzie’s under pressure on these flat Australian tracks. All very predictable.