England at World Cup 2014

I honestly see too much big game inexperience in what is likely to be our starting XI.

Anyone who has been playing for Everton/Liverpool/Southampton [- Gerrard] will never have played in a bigger game than against Italy.

Then Glen Johnson is clearly not good enough, and Cahill is a huge step down from previous CB's. I just see to many mistakes in possession/defensive and in attacks. I think that will present enough opportunities for Italy to score, and I struggle to see England coming back from being 2 even 1 -0 down against them. We will then head into the Uruguay game [likely] knowing we need something, and I just don't see it happening there either.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Based on what?
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Scored goals on a bigger stage for me, and on a more consistent basis.

Don't get me wrong Sturridge stock is rising, however he hasn't looked very good to me in an England shirt if I'm honest. Where as Mario Euro 2012 as well as his goal scoring where ever he has played. Even though he was a pain at City his scored a goal every other game.
 
Cassidy said:
Scored goals on a bigger stage for me, and on a more consistent basis.

Don't get me wrong Sturridge stock is rising, however he hasn't looked very good to me in an England shirt if I'm honest. Where as Mario Euro 2012 as well as his goal scoring where ever he has played. Even though he was a pain at City his scored a goal every other game.
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I'd have to disagree. Firstly, I think it's unfair to make international comparisons between the both, as Sturridge as had very few caps for his country compared to Mario. Yes, Mario scored two goals against Germany, but apart from that he hasn't really kicked on, in my opinion, and that's the only big game I can really remember him scoring in. I think it'll be fair to give a fair comparison after this WC.

If we're moving onto club performances, well in his first proper breakthrough season, where he's been able to play up top, Sturridge has shown he's up there with the best this season, scoring 21 goals in arguably the toughest league - something Balotelli has never done - even in the Italian league. Bad behaviour aside, Balotelli sometimes looked like he couldn't handle the speed of the EPL, which rightly got him a transfer back to Italy, where he's only started to pick up some form. At times his touch can be awful, his work rate is non-existent, and he spends too much time moaning.

I personally think Balotelli is overrated by a lot of people. Maybe it's his character, I don't know. There's no doubt he's got ability (although I'd never say he's way better then Sturridge), but he's way too inconsistent, in my opinion. Suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens in the England vs Italy game.
 
Balotelli is an unbelievable talent in my opinion, but he's also an unbelievable cnut. A lazy one at that. If he had, say, Ronaldo's will and determination to better himself, he'd be one of the best players in the world at the tender age of 23. At this point in time, he's an enigmatic talent. Nothing more.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Eh? :nono:
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he's much better than Sturridge...Balotelli has an ego & he's a prick, but he has far more footballing quality than Sturridge, heck, Sturridge is actually pretty over-rated imo, yes he did well last season but if you look at how many shots on goal Liverpool have, his shot conversion rate is nothing special...
 
If Balotelli was a boring cnut without the mystery, no one with a hole in their arse would say he was better than Sturridge.
 
I think tonight's starting lineup will be the team he goes with in the first game. For me, it's not the right team for the World Cup as a whole, but it's a safe team if you like, for Italy anyway.
 
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LoiusVanGaal said:
he's much better than Sturridge...Balotelli has an ego & he's a prick, but he has far more footballing quality than Sturridge, heck, Sturridge is actually pretty over-rated imo, yes he did well last season but if you look at how many shots on goal Liverpool have, his shot conversion rate is nothing special...
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Sturridge is overrated. He's decent in terms of technique, awareness, passing but he's nothing special at all. He had a good season in an on-form team. Everybody at Liverpool benefitted from playing alongside a real bona-fide top class player in Suarez.

He'll do a decent job for England but not much more. Those 2 chances he missed last night... Good thing it was a friendly.
 
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It's quite funny that the two attacking players who were involved in the (limited) good things England did in the final third are the ones most of the gaping arse chasms who follow England want dropped.

It just so happens they both play for United.
 
Drainy said:
It's quite funny that the two attacking players who were involved in the (limited) good things England did in the final third are the ones most of the gaping arse chasms who follow England want dropped.

It just so happens they both play for United.
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yup...Rooney's freekick was spilled & could have been turned in, Wellbeck's shot forced a good block by their keeper, of course both chances are ignored by England fans who prefer to scapegoat the team & manager being shit on Wayne, because of course Rooney plays as all 11 players and is footballing deity right? oh wait...
 
Goalfather said:
Firstly you are going to get very little going forward from Jones . This combined with the lack of pace from Baines means England will have little thrust from the full back positions.

Ross Barkley will likely develop into a superb player but at present he still has a lot to learn and loses the ball a bit too often in dangerous parts of the field. He can be a superb impact player though

Lallana is very skilled but he is not physically strong and has zero acceleration and whilst he is somewhat of a novelty in English football in terms of his style of play, his type is a dime a dozen in Italy.

The combination of Gerrard and Henderson is a big problem because neither are defensive midfielders and neither are very good on the ball.

I think Wilshere for all his failings would be a better pick because he is more comfortable on the ball and gives u that attacking thrust.

Italy is a very well drilled side, they know how to play tournament football. With that line up England will be playing into their hands.

Rooney vs Sturridge

People are real quick to get on Sturridge's back.

They act as if Rooney does not miss chances!
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Baines lacks pace?

Lallana isn't Bolt, but he's not exactly slow either.

Gerrard isn't good on the ball? I'm not sure what he's getting picked for if it isn't his ability on the ball.

People are quick to get on Rooney's back too.
 
odds 15/8 on Italy and Uruguay to qualify from group seems a value bet
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
I'd have to disagree. Firstly, I think it's unfair to make international comparisons between the both, as Sturridge as had very few caps for his country compared to Mario. Yes, Mario scored two goals against Germany, but apart from that he hasn't really kicked on, in my opinion, and that's the only big game I can really remember him scoring in. I think it'll be fair to give a fair comparison after this WC.

If we're moving onto club performances, well in his first proper breakthrough season, where he's been able to play up top, Sturridge has shown he's up there with the best this season, scoring 21 goals in arguably the toughest league - something Balotelli has never done - even in the Italian league. Bad behaviour aside, Balotelli sometimes looked like he couldn't handle the speed of the EPL, which rightly got him a transfer back to Italy, where he's only started to pick up some form. At times his touch can be awful, his work rate is non-existent, and he spends too much time moaning.

I personally think Balotelli is overrated by a lot of people. Maybe it's his character, I don't know. There's no doubt he's got ability (although I'd never say he's way better then Sturridge), but he's way too inconsistent, in my opinion. Suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens in the England vs Italy game.
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Well said. Goodnight sweet prince @Cassidy
 
Few things I noticed about yesterdays game...

Leighton Baines - he has no one in front of him, and we seem to think he's good enough to be given an entire flank to himself and he will cause damage. He really can't.. he can't dribble past defenders with a little pace and his delivery from far out, was really poor yesterday.. I think Shaw is a greater attacking threat potentially with more experience, but I'd persist with Baines and just give him a kick up the arse to be stronger in the tackle and put in more quality deliveries.

Gerrard - He's too slow in my opinion and will be a liability, especially in a side that is traditionally cumbersome with and without the ball... we need to manage him very carefully, this idea of Henderson being his 'legs' is pissing me off because Gerrard is meant to be the defensive midfielder.. not our source of creativity, he is meant to be the legs! Pirlo is the creator and he needs legs around him doing the defensive work, if Gerrard is our defensive midfielder and Henderson is our legs.. who the feck is creating and dictating tempo in the middle?? Wilshere simply has to start.

Henderson - was pleasantly surprised with him yesterday, incisive passing, very simple but he tried to play more forward and he is an athlete, comfortable with running with the ball and he seems tactically astute. I'd pair him with Wilshere and let them form an understanding.

Sturridge - missed chances yesterday, but he was a menace in terms of his dribbling, deserves some credit for that.. its a shame that he had to play out wide due to the fact Sterling and Ox, the best dribblers in the squad in wide positions were missing.

Rooney - similar to the Gerrard situation, he's holding the team back.. I think wise heads are important from the bench, someone like Rooney can come off the bench and get a goal if played up top, from the start he's useless at the moment.

Lallana - he is so poor out wide, as a number 10.. I think he'd be alright as his lack of pace is less of a worry there, but out wide he is useless. He can't beat a man down the line and with him and Welbeck coming in, it is too congested .. he also looks like he can get caught on the ball. I'd use him as a backup 10 for Barkley, but he needs to be down the pecking order on the wings.

Cahill/Jagielka v Jones/Smalling - I don't think we have the greatest centre-back lineup in recent history, in fact its the worse defence we've taken to a major tournament in decades but the former two are at least able to win balls in the air against physically robust opposition. The united pair, are physically suspect in aerial duels in my opinion and capable of being bullied... I have a feeling this England team if it is to get anywhere needs to be on the attack, lets hope our defence as poor as it is, doesn't get raped.

Honourable mention.. James Milner

He was wretched against Ecuador, I love a hard-working player like the next man, but if they're lacking tactically then what is the point.. I don't see how he adds to the squad. He isn't a Hargreaves or a Park Ji Sung, he is not reliable against quality in my opinion. Midfield is only place where he might be viable against a team we are winning against and need to see out the lat 5-10 minutes. Him and Henderson could be a decent screen in front of the defence, but full-back? needs to up his game.. and wings - no chance.

England Lineup v Italy

Hart
Johnson Jagielka Cahill Baines
Henderson Wilshere
Sterling Barkley Welbeck
Sturridge

Best lineup (no injuries)

Hart
Johnson Jagielka Cahill Baines
Henderson Wilshere
Oxlade-Chamberlain Barkley Sterling
Sturridge​
 
Swaggy S said:
Well said. Goodnight sweet prince @Cassidy
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Haha I did actually have a very good night sleep :-)

@Walters_19_MuFc

I think the perception of Mario is down to his temperament more than what he does on the pitch tbh.

For City hes always scored crucial goals in big games, even though he was not a regular starter and had a goal every other game record. He has a goal every other game record for Milan too. In fact he has more or less a goal every other game record over the past 5 seasons.

Thats what I am talking about in terms of consistency and producing in big games consistently, That doesn't even include his international record.

Yes you're right Sturridge is new to the international scene and is only really having his first breakthrough season, by that definition I think you cannot compare and say he has been able to produce consistently at a high level like Balotelli has. They have been around as long as each other btw.

The fact that he is a massive bellend distracts from what he does on the pitch, he is far more talented than Sturridge (even though Sturridge is very talented)
 
England should line up

Hart
Jones Jagielka Cahill Baines
Wilshere Gerrard
Sterling Barkley Rooney
Sturridge

I think the balance is right with this team and Johnson simply isn't good enough

Touch and go between Rooney and Welbeck - both will be Pirlos shadow in the first game but Rooney gives you more of a goal threat

I'd prefer Roon
 
Johnson cannot start at RB, surely?

I don't think I've ever seen him play where he hasn't been comically horrific.

What's important to me is that we play a certain way; not terrified of the ball. I've defended playing for results in tournaments before but I think this time what's more important is getting the younger players time on the ball and used to the intense pressure of this level and getting them used to keeping the ball and using it in this environment. Of course I want England to win every match but part of me would accept elimination playing all our games the way I described, to progression to the last 16/8 employing 'play for the result' football we've tended to over the years.
 
Plugsy said:
Johnson cannot start at RB, surely?

I don't think I've ever seen him play where he hasn't been comically horrific.

What's important to me is that we play a certain way; not terrified of the ball. I've defended playing for results in tournaments before but I think this time what's more important is getting the younger players time on the ball and used to the intense pressure of this level and getting them used to keeping the ball and using it in this environment. Of course I want England to win every match but part of me would accept elimination playing all our games the way I described, to progression to the last 16/8 employing 'play for the result' football we've tended to over the years.
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i don't see why either chambers or clyne were completely ignored for the world cup when our right back options were basically limited to just johnson?
 
rogey said:
i don't see why either chambers or clyne were completely ignored for the world cup when our right back options were basically limited to just johnson?
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Maybe because most defenders are naturally right footed so it's not considered that much of a stretch to ask any defensive player to fill in, as opposed to LB where unless you're left footed, you may find it quite awkward.
 
I don't know how Glen Johnson has had a career in the Premier League, let alone for England. He's a right back that has never been able to defend and used to get by on being decent going forward alone, but he can't even attack now. It's a joke that he's in the team. I don't get Phil Jagielka either, give me Chris Smalling every day of the week.

I'd go for

Hart
Jones Smalling Cahill Baines
Henderson Gerrard
Welbeck Sterling Rooney
Sturridge
 
Baines is constantly ignored when he gets in good positions and considering he has a better final ball and cross than all the wingers in the squad we should be trying to get him into positions where he can hurt teams. I also think Baines doesn't really trust the players who have been on the left to hold onto the ball while he makes the overlap because he visibly makes less runs in a England shirt than in a Everton one.
 
Cassidy said:
Haha I did actually have a very good night sleep :-)

@Walters_19_MuFc

I think the perception of Mario is down to his temperament more than what he does on the pitch tbh.

For City hes always scored crucial goals in big games, even though he was not a regular starter and had a goal every other game record. He has a goal every other game record for Milan too. In fact he has more or less a goal every other game record over the past 5 seasons.

Thats what I am talking about in terms of consistency and producing in big games consistently, That doesn't even include his international record.

Yes you're right Sturridge is new to the international scene and is only really having his first breakthrough season, by that definition I think you cannot compare and say he has been able to produce consistently at a high level like Balotelli has. They have been around as long as each other btw.

The fact that he is a massive bellend distracts from what he does on the pitch, he is far more talented than Sturridge (even though Sturridge is very talented)
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I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this occasion then, mate.
 
GK Hart
RB Johnson
CB Smalling
CB Cahill
LB Baines
DM Gerrard
CM Barkley
RW Oxlade/Sterling
LW Sterling/Oxlade
AM Rooney
ST Sturridge

When defending you have defensive back line of 4, Gerrard in front, with midfield line of 4 supporting. When attacking you have 3 players who are strong at running with the ball, one left, one right, one in the middle. Gerrard, Barkley and Rooney is a very nicely balanced midfield and all 3 are capable of scoring and creating goals. We do not have any midfielders who are strong defensively, Gerrard is the best but not even he is very strong, just better than the rest. So, we might as well choose players who can do just as good a job but who are a strong threat when attacking. If Carrick was in the squad could have had DM Carrick CM Gerrard/Barkley AM Rooney/Barkley. That would have made us more solid defensively and still kept the same attacking strength.
 
LoiusVanGaal said:
to be frank if England are relying on our defenders to get forward then we are already in trouble, we need defensive ability from them much more imo.

he lost the ball far far less than Wilshere...

who else then? Wellbeck is poor out wide...

please do tell me what DM's England do have then?

Wilshere is awful for England ffs, he gave the ball away so often tonight, his passing is inconsistent as they come, any pressure on him and he falls like a waffle as well.

with the team we had tonight Italy need not worry about anything much, just wait for Wilshere to give them the ball, play it to the right flank where Johnson won't be, cross it in and nick a goal or two.

Rooney is at least capable when on form of doing the job, not convinced Sturridge will at all, pretty sure Rooney would have scored at least one of Sturridges chances too, remember Rooney's only chance to shoot was that free-kick and it was as close as we came all night, Sturridge had countless chances, some were almost sitters and missed them all.
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BarneyLFC said:
Baines lacks pace?

Lallana isn't Bolt, but he's not exactly slow either.

Gerrard isn't good on the ball? I'm not sure what he's getting picked for if it isn't his ability on the ball.

People are quick to get on Rooney's back too.
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Sigh!

My point is that the balance of his team is wrong if you're going to play Italy and Uraguay.

These are two clever streetwise teams who know how to play tournament football.

England's strength in recent years has been their defence, this year, for the first time in ages, this defence is suspect. No Rio Ferdinand, no Sol Cambell and no John Terry and no Ashley Cole. These players made England a really tough team to score against.

Therefore the approach has to change the personnel has to change!

England are never going to outpass Italy or Uraguay. Where England has a distinct advantage is that they now have players with the paceand the ability to beat a man one to one in the side. Teams like Italy fear this the most.

I have no problem with Rooney or Lallanna starting but if Roy is going to start with Henderson and Gerrard he,needs pace and direct running in the side.
 
Not a single England player has convinced me of their place in the first XI off these friendlies, which is disappointing as you hope for two or three to have cemented their place by now.

Sturridge & Rooney - Sturridge has been disappointing bar one nice goal. Hasn't been anywhere near sharp enough either in general play for finishing. I do think him, Sterling & Welbeck would make an excellent forward line given time and ideal conditions, neither of which we have. Rooney has looked just as bad and he might well be breathing out of his arse after 30 minutes in hot and humid conditions. Hodgson needs to make a choice between them for the number 9 role as there are better players for the number 10 role than Rooney, and better wide options than Sturridge on the wing.

Sterling & Chamberlain - The two "new" talents who deserve to be in the team, but Sterling showed inexperience with a clumsy tackle & Chamberlain's fitness and stamina are major question marks - he's only completed 90 minutes twice in the past year and is yet again injured.

Barkley & Lallana - Neither have convinced - Barkley is capable of some amazing things but his contribution is not consistent over the entire 90 minutes. Lallana is a player I like and is the cleverest passer in the side, but he has not looked anything special and even a bit one paced. I wouldn't include either in the initial starting line ups.

Gerrard - Not convinced by him in this deep role for England. He is not going to offer the back four enough protection which means you have to include a hard-working average talent like Henderson or Milner to babysit him in midfield and to "do the running" for him. His first touch under pressure has never been the best, and in the deep role the ball will constantly return to him to distribute, which may be a bit of a risk. Can England afford to build the side around him?

Johnson - Seems like we are paying for only including one natural right back in the squad as Johnson seems a bit complacent. That said I felt he was our top performer in the last Euros so hopefully he returns to that sort of form once the tournament kicks off.

My Team:

Hart
Johnson Cahill Jagielka Baines
Gerrard
Henderson Chamberlain
Sterling Rooney Welbeck
 
Sterling - Sturridge - Welbeck up front sounds exciting, it's a pity we never got to see them together, and it's too late to try it in Brazil now.

Lots of pace, good technique, hunger, plus both Sterling and Welbeck track back nicely. It's a shame really, leaving Rooney out would be a lose-lose situation for any manager; the press would be all over them if they lost and if they did win... Let's be honest, it's not like England would win anyway.
 
toonfan said:
Not a single England player has convinced me of their place in the first XI off these friendlies, which is disappointing as you hope for two or three to have cemented their place by now.

Sturridge & Rooney - Sturridge has been disappointing bar one nice goal. Hasn't been anywhere near sharp enough either in general play for finishing. I do think him, Sterling & Welbeck would make an excellent forward line given time and ideal conditions, neither of which we have. Rooney has looked just as bad and he might well be breathing out of his arse after 30 minutes in hot and humid conditions. Hodgson needs to make a choice between them for the number 9 role as there are better players for the number 10 role than Rooney, and better wide options than Sturridge on the wing.

Sterling & Chamberlain - The two "new" talents who deserve to be in the team, but Sterling showed inexperience with a clumsy tackle & Chamberlain's fitness and stamina are major question marks - he's only completed 90 minutes twice in the past year and is yet again injured.

Barkley & Lallana - Neither have convinced - Barkley is capable of some amazing things but his contribution is not consistent over the entire 90 minutes. Lallana is a player I like and is the cleverest passer in the side, but he has not looked anything special and even a bit one paced. I wouldn't include either in the initial starting line ups.

Gerrard - Not convinced by him in this deep role for England. He is not going to offer the back four enough protection which means you have to include a hard-working average talent like Henderson or Milner to babysit him in midfield and to "do the running" for him. His first touch under pressure has never been the best, and in the deep role the ball will constantly return to him to distribute, which may be a bit of a risk. Can England afford to build the side around him?

Johnson - Seems like we are paying for only including one natural right back in the squad as Johnson seems a bit complacent. That said I felt he was our top performer in the last Euros so hopefully he returns to that sort of form once the tournament kicks off.

My Team:

Hart
Johnson Cahill Jagielka Baines
Gerrard
Henderson Chamberlain
Sterling Rooney Welbeck
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If that was starting XI, I think they would perform better if you had this instead
Hart
Johnson Cahill Jagielka Baines
Gerrard Henderson
Sterling Rooney Oxlade
Welbeck
 
Hart
Johnson--Jagielka--Cahill--Shaw
---------Milner--Henderson
Sterling------Wilshere------Chamberlain
-------------Sturridge/Rooney

Would be my team against Italy. I've said it before but I just don't think Gerrard will cut it as the deepest midfielder, its too late to change it now because Hodgson hasn't played Milner there at all instead choosing to try him at right back for some strange reason. Pace on the wings, solid central defence partnership and an okay keeper.

(I just remembered Gerrard is captain and more than likely will not ever be dropped from the starting XI in this tournament)
 
JefferiesTube said:
If that was starting XI, I think they would perform better if you had this instead
Hart
Johnson Cahill Jagielka Baines
Gerrard Henderson
Sterling Rooney Oxlade
Welbeck
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Rooney playing behind the striker - no thanks. I've seen him try to clumsily trap a ball and then awkwardly try and turn his man too many times for England. He needs to play facing the goal, not his own midfield. Welbeck would be in there not as a number 9 (there's two better than him for that position) but as a wide man putting in a shift and offering pace on the break. An English Di Maria...just not as good.
 
Unlikely lad said:
Sterling - Sturridge - Welbeck up front sounds exciting, it's a pity we never got to see them together, and it's too late to try it in Brazil now.
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I don't see why it's too late to play those three. I'd probably start them against Italy with Milner in midfield to help out Gerrard and Henderson. More cover for a defence that isn't great but with plenty of pace to play on the counter.

Though seeing as Rooney isn't going to get dropped I'd stick him out wide with Welbeck in the middle sat on Pirlo. Basically do what he did to Alonso last season when we played Real Madrid.
 
Its strange that throughout his career most people have said Rooney's best position is just behind the striker. Yet now people want him stuck out on the wing or on the bench and he is no good playing just behind the striker. :rolleyes:
Rooney this season, the only relevant season. Playing in a poor team.
56 chances created, 10 assists, 17 goals.
 
JefferiesTube said:
Its strange that throughout his career most people have said Rooney's best position is just behind the striker. Yet now people want him stuck out on the wing or on the bench and he is no good playing just behind the striker. :rolleyes:
Rooney this season, the only relevant season. Playing in a poor team.
56 chances created, 10 assists, 17 goals.
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He's been quite bad in those friendlies though.
 
I want to see Rooney as the number 9 with Barkley behind him. Henderson and Wilshere in midfield too, with pace on the wings. Won't happen, though.
 
JefferiesTube said:
Its strange that throughout his career most people have said Rooney's best position is just behind the striker. Yet now people want him stuck out on the wing or on the bench and he is no good playing just behind the striker. :rolleyes:
Rooney this season, the only relevant season. Playing in a poor team.
56 chances created, 10 assists, 17 goals.
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That's a fair point about Rooney's output last season. And for a long time he was a good no. 10. But those goals are masking that he's just not that effective at no. 10 anymore. He's quite slow now with his feet. He's lost all his explosiveness.

I'm not sure England definitely have a better option than him right now but I don't think he should be automatically first choice for either England or United.
 
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