It's this sort of short-termism that is killing us in every transfer window. We are in need of quality right now not squad depth options. He also moved to Juve on a free meaning he gets more wages and we would have to pay more too. This season is gone, we aren't going to get relegated, we have to plan for next season and select top players that would come for us instead of the likes of Can who is just like Schneiderlin.
Emre Can
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I think people need to have some perspective here. Our CM is a mess. We lack both quality and quantity. Is it that bad adding a 35m rated 25 year old German international who can play as CB, DM and B2B and who had well with both Liverpool and Juventus especially when we're being asked 50m-80m for some random British average kid? I don't think so.
As long as he is better than Fred and Matic, I am fine.
Just sign him up.
Just sign him up.
You're telling me there's nobody better than him or with more potential than him for 35m? I really can't believe that, guy is slow as arseholes.
When you consider the fee and the fact that not many players want to join this mess especially in the January transfer window then honestly I can't come out with any alternative names for him. Maybe you can come out with alternatives yourself.
Don't take me wrong, I don't think that Can is world class. However, I do believe he's way better then what we've got bar Pogba. He's also versatile and he's got the fighting spirit we need in midfield.
Ah and I almost forgot, Can is neither a Liverpool nor a Juve reject. Klopp wanted to keep him while at Juve he's victim of Sarriball. He was a valuable player under Allegri
I don't necessarily agree with this.
The issue right now is that we have too many 'good' players, especially in midfield, but are failing to bring in a world class player to complete the system. Fred, Mctominay, Matic are all decent players. Yes, they aren't world class or have the potential to be there but they are certainly players good enough to be role players in a title challenging side.
Can will just be another player of the similar type, someone who won't elevate us to a higher level but rather keep us where we are (challenging for the top 4), which I feel we are too stacked up with already.
If we want to sell someone like Matic or Fred, then yea sure he can come in but I don't think it makes sense to let go of Fred in his second season and bring ourselves to pay high agent/signing on fees from signing another player not much better.
Transfer fees in South American don't go above £20m. We can get some good South American midfielders in for less that £20m each, replacing Matic, Fred, and Mata with better players for less than the price West Ham ask for some mid-ling Englishman.
I'm not a scout, I don't play FM, I don't play FIFA but I would be shocked if there's nobody in France, Portugal or Holland available for less than 35 that's just as good. Or indeed that there's nobody in Italy who'd be willing to join us who's better, even if they cost a bit more. We shouldn't be shopping in the bargain bin for the sake of it, if the right guy costs 50 so be it.
First of all we always struggled on work permits with those sort of players. Secondly we've yet to have a SA midfielder settling in and that despite spending more then 100m+ on them
Don't think so. On performance, I'd call Fred and Matic closer to relegation level.
I don't play FM, FIFA etc but surely there's a wonder kid (tm) or bargain signing (tm) who can fit in our midfield and do better.
Can is
a- EPL proven
b- Versatile
c- he's got the attitude to play at top clubs
d- He's a German international
e- He wants to join this mess in January
f- He's probably better then all our CMs bar Pogba
g- He's at the right age
i- his fee is ridiculously low (Newcastle asked 50m for Longstaff)
I can't think of any players that fit all those criteria.
Also lets get rid of this 'reject don't want' BS.
A- Can is not a reject. He simply didn't fit their system
B- There had been many rejects who had done very well with clubs (Hughes, Rush, Bergkamp, Henry etc)
C- We're really in no condition to be picky
So good Juventus decided he wasn't even worth registering on the CL list.
Now could he bring something to your middfield, probably, but he's still a pretty inconsistant player.
Herrera is so underrated on here, for the most part.
Im in for him, all these saying he is not world class, yes true, but do you expect that we sign these players at the moment? no
It really is as simple as this. But people will moan and moan regardless of the obvious.
Emre never has
Nothing to do with FIFA, FM or any other game. Half the midfielders in the top Argentine and Brazilian leagues could do better than Fred, Matic, Mata, Lingard and Pereira. We could improve our squad by random selection of someone who's not Fred, Matic, Mata, Lingard nor Pereira.I don't play FM, FIFA etc but surely there's a wonder kid (tm) or bargain signing (tm) who can fit in our midfield and do better.
United need shock therapy. Those 5 players aren't going to suddenly become premiership winning material. They need to leave as soon as possible. So I am not happy with one to two changes in January. At least 5 are needed.
PS: Can's injury record:
Season --- Days missed --- Injuries
19 / 20 --- 21 ----------------- 1
18 / 19 --- 58 ----------------- 3
17 / 18 --- 68 ----------------- 1
16 / 17 --- 39 ----------------- 3
15 / 16 --- 18 ----------------- 1
14 / 15 --- 38 ----------------- 1
13 / 14 --- 56 ----------------- 1
Look, I don't blame them as I was initially pissed off as well. Then my better judgement took over. United is a mess. We need easily 7-8 players to go on top and we can't spend 70m on each of them. Also its not uncommon for players who hasn't shone at their club to move to other clubs and do well. Pirlo (Inter -> Milan), Henry (Juve -> Arsenal), Bergkamp (Inter -> Arsenal), Seedorf (Inter -> Milan) to mention a few.
We had Brazilian/Argentinian internationals who failed big time at United. The likes of JSV, Kleberson, ADM and former golden boy Anderson for example. Fred himself was considered a top player up until we signed him and he proven to be a joke. What the hell you're talking about?
Can had only 1 long term injury with Juventus and that was because of a tyriod problem he had were he needed to undergo a surgery at Mayo Clinic in the US. You can't blame the player for investigating a potential tyriod cancer.
PS Mods, Can risked of having a potential tyriod cancer. I am not accusing him to be a cancer.
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Is that official? Brazilian/Argentinians banned from playing for United. How does that sit with United's policy on racism?
Wait what? Where have I said that? I am just debating the foolishness of bringing in a random Brazilian/Argentinian guy whom according to what was written will automatically be better then our own CMs or an EPL proven German international at his prime like Emre Can. That might work in FM or FIFA but it never worked with us.
What the feck are you talking about?
Can used to have great potential but injuries have reduced his ability/mobility.
Need a left back, defensive midfielder, central midfielder, right winger and a striker into the first eleven. To get the right players in is going to cost alot of money so getting in Emre Can for 35million is a no brainer. No doubt about it he improves the current midfield. Spending big money on every position will take longer to rebuild.
I'm not keen on Mandzukic because of his age, but they are players who would improve any team in the league other than City and Liverpool. At their best of course.
I don't play FM, FIFA etc but surely there's a wonder kid (tm) or bargain signing (tm) who can fit in our midfield and do better.
Can is
a- EPL proven
b- Versatile
c- he's got the attitude to play at top clubs
d- He's a German international
e- He wants to join this mess in January
f- He's probably better then all our CMs bar Pogba
g- He's at the right age
i- his fee is ridiculously low (Newcastle asked 50m for Longstaff)
I can't think of any players that fit all those criteria.
Also lets get rid of this 'reject don't want' BS.
A- Can is not a reject. He simply didn't fit their system
B- There had been many rejects who had done very well with clubs (Hughes, Rush, Bergkamp, Henry etc)
C- We're really in no condition to be picky
Or alternatively, rather than be a bellend about it you could accept that there are lots of good players in France, Portugal and Holland who would be cheaper than Can, and that we had 2 successful signings in the summer by going for youngsters with a bit of experience. Or even that the likes of Zaniolo or whatever in Italy might be available at some point. Can is fine, I don't even disagree that he's marginally better than our other midfielders, but for me it depends on whether it's Can + somebody in the summer or just Can. I am sceptical whether the wankers on the board will sanction a 35m player on fairly sizeable wages and then a proper player in the summer. If we can't afford a 35m punt, we should be looking at a younger, cheaper one.
Do we? I don't see that at all. I see we have far too many bang average or worse...
Not that I necessarily believe Can is the answer...but I firmly believe we don't have enough 'good' players.
We lack grafters, we lack any sort of consistent quality...and we lack game changers. Again, not saying Can is necessarily those, but the focus should be improving gradually on what we have, while adding genuine stand out quality when we can.
Right now, I'd support a novel for a decent midfielder to not see Matic and Fred bumbling around our midfield.
Agree. This season we've had a lack of "good" players.
We've had about 9 players out of our entire squad who could be described as "good" this season. Not even enough for a full team. A couple have been better than good of course.
Good luck persuading zaniolo to come at 35m
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Can you even read?
I think you're struggling in reading. I asked for names who can satisfy that list something you had refused to give.
Now lets have a look at Zaniolo's transfer. Inter were desperate for Nainggolan which in itself was an opportunity. That is because Inter are quite renowned to get involved in brainfart swaps (Ivan Zamorani swap with Roberto Carlos + 1m, straight swap between Seedorf and Coco, swap deal between Guglielminpietro + 2.8m and Pirlo, swap between Fabian Carini and Fabio Cannavaro). Anyway Roma saw that desperation as an opportunity to continue this long tradition of taking Inter to the cleaners by asking for Zaniolo, a kid who was doing very well at youth level but had never really imposed himself at top level. Its the same tactic I was hoping we use to get our hands on the likes of Icardi or Lautaro M. Both players are way better then Lukaku, Rashy and Greenwood. Unfortunately that ship had now sailed.
There's nothing to suggest that Inter would have allowed Zaniolo to leave if they weren't desperate to get the Belgian international instead. There's also no proof whatsoever that a 17 year old Zaniolo would be willing to leave Italy especially to join this mess of a team not to forget that I very much doubt that a 17 year old whom prior joining Roma had never played first team football can go into our midfield and suddenly elevate us.
I would be all for the transfer but 35 million? He doesn't fit into sarri's plans at all and they got him for free. If such a scenario was taking place at United we would be struggling to sell him for 10 million.
20-25 million should be his real value and that's pushing it at the 25 million mark purely based on how much he is actually needed by Juventus under sarri and not because he is bad player. he did well in the premier league and shouldn't be viewed as a player we should steer clear off just because he has been snubbed by sarri at Juventus. Lukaku was pretty much snubbed by Solskjear, not because he is a rubbish striker but because he didnt fit Solskjear's vision and there are many examples of good players being benched when new managers come in due to fitting their plans.
20-25 million should be his real value and that's pushing it at the 25 million mark purely based on how much he is actually needed by Juventus under sarri and not because he is bad player. he did well in the premier league and shouldn't be viewed as a player we should steer clear off just because he has been snubbed by sarri at Juventus. Lukaku was pretty much snubbed by Solskjear, not because he is a rubbish striker but because he didnt fit Solskjear's vision and there are many examples of good players being benched when new managers come in due to fitting their plans.
Maybe you missed it but Juventus changed the coach since last season. And their coach from last season is likely to be our next coach very soon. He was their regular first team player and he missed over a month with tyroid surgery.
If he was good enough to be Juve's regular, what are we even talking about here? He may not be a world beater, but he brings everything we've missed since Herrera left. Leader, strong character, hungry, good tackler, gets into the opposition area and can run for days.
These two. Both better than Can. Cheaper, Younger. Still young enough to adapt to English football.
Player ------------ Age --- Cost ---- Club
Matheus Henrique --- 21 --- £16.2 --- Gremio --- Brazilian only passport
Bruno Guimarães ---- 21 ---- £4.5 --- Paranaense --- Has Spanish passport.
TransferMarkt prices quoted. South American players never go for more than £20m when moving within clubs in South America itself. I'm sure we can get 2 better players for what Juventus want for Can.
You are very antagonistic. I never once said Zaniolo could be had for 35m, or even at all. I quite specifically left Italy out of the countries where cheaper CMs who might be worth signing might be found. On the other hand if a class Italian CM becomes available for more than 35m then I think we should do it.
They signed him for almost 15m, i know when it comes to Juve it feels like they get every midfielder for free, but they did have to pay for him. With that said, i'd only want him if Allegri wants him.
1st one won't get a work permit
How has Fred got a work permit?
We having another Lamina situation or, suddenly it makes sense, he is this or that, people always mentioned him as good option for our midfield etc.
I don't think they are. Matic was, but is clearly finished. Fred looks to be getting worse after a poor first season and I really don't get how McToMinay gets rated. He's decent only in the "good enough to have a Premiership career" kind of way, wouldn't get a game with the top 5, and wouldn't be getting starts for the likes of West ham, Wolverhampton or Leicester.