Another central midfielder whose main strength isn’t his ability to pass the football.
Ederson - Atalanta Midfielder
- Thread starter Berbaclass
- Start date
He is good at basically everything, hes very well rounded.
Never convinced about players coming from Ktalian football to the premiership. Just a different pace of football. Hopefully if we do sign him he is as good as the positive people say. If he goes to a rival premier league club I hope he is as good as the negative posters say.
Getting up and down the pitch isn’t enough. We had players who could do that all day long in McFred but it still didn't work to the level we required because their passing, positioning and tactical nous weren’t up to scratch. We need someone that can get up and down but who can also dictate the tempo and open things up with their passing range. I’m not sure if Ederson is that guy.
At this stage - I am happy if we get a midfielder who can run and tackle
He's very expensive for that
When INEOS unwisely chose to spend heavily in the summer, the fees we paid reflected the ages of those players: high fee for Yoro (18), slightly lower fee for Ugarte (23), Zirkzee had clause, De Ligt (just turned 25 when he joined) high wages but fairly standard fee, Mazraoui (26) much lower fee.
Going by the logic deployed, even if we felt CM was a priority requiring a starter, we would be looking for very good value in terms of fee and wages for a 26 year old (in July). Given our financial situation is worse than last summer, neither the fee we offer Atalanta, nor the wages on offer to Ederson, are likely to be attractive to them since he has 2 years left on his current contract and plays for the 3rd place team in Serie A.
PSG wanted to sell Ugarte. Bayern wanted to sell De Ligt and Mazraoui. Zirkzee had clause in his contract. Lecce probably didn't want to sell Dorgu but £25m is a huge amount to them. Everton didn't want to sell Branthwaite on the cheap, United's offers were miles below their valuation, he's still at Everton.
I'm not convinced we intend to sign a starting CM this summer as we have Ugarte + Mainoo/Fernandes, with Collyer as a back-up player, then possibly Kone as younger player who might be on the fringes of the squad next season. A cheap, fairly young, low salary back-up option seems more likely.
When we bought Hojlund from Atalanta he was very expensive. Even the Amad deal was expensive at the time, though looking much better value now.
Nothing about this deal sounds realistic, regardless of whether Ederson is or isn't better than our current options.
Going by the logic deployed, even if we felt CM was a priority requiring a starter, we would be looking for very good value in terms of fee and wages for a 26 year old (in July). Given our financial situation is worse than last summer, neither the fee we offer Atalanta, nor the wages on offer to Ederson, are likely to be attractive to them since he has 2 years left on his current contract and plays for the 3rd place team in Serie A.
PSG wanted to sell Ugarte. Bayern wanted to sell De Ligt and Mazraoui. Zirkzee had clause in his contract. Lecce probably didn't want to sell Dorgu but £25m is a huge amount to them. Everton didn't want to sell Branthwaite on the cheap, United's offers were miles below their valuation, he's still at Everton.
I'm not convinced we intend to sign a starting CM this summer as we have Ugarte + Mainoo/Fernandes, with Collyer as a back-up player, then possibly Kone as younger player who might be on the fringes of the squad next season. A cheap, fairly young, low salary back-up option seems more likely.
When we bought Hojlund from Atalanta he was very expensive. Even the Amad deal was expensive at the time, though looking much better value now.
Nothing about this deal sounds realistic, regardless of whether Ederson is or isn't better than our current options.
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Exactly this. I like Ederson, but it feels like the club has an aversion to signing ball-playing technicians.
In a perfect world, I'd bring in Ederson along with a top-class deep-lying playmaker - whoever that may be.
Hugo Larsson
His passing stats are very good - just not elite. In fact, his passing stats are better than his defensive stats.
Stinks of a Fred type of signing to be fair, and we should stay away. We need to hunt for players like Joao Neves, absolute top tier talents, not Fred type of sub pair midfielders that are being quoted at 60m euros.
I've heard hes good but is he not more of a box to box midfielder?
Apparently Stiller is meant to be really good but he's not very dynamic from what I've heard.
Any ideas?
Wharton?
Yes. Palace would demand a ridiculous amount for him, though. But I'd certainly have Wharton at United.
Do Amorim deploy a deep-lying playmaker? Do any teams with three at the back these days?
We do need a good passer of the ball in midfield. That is clear.
What leagues do convince you enough to sign players from?
As someone said, Wharton, or someone Hugo Larsson. Then there is talk about Camavinga leaving. We should be all over that if possible.
How does that Stiller chap compare to Larsson/Wharton?
Stiller is streaks ahead of Larsson and Wharton as a deep lying playmaker. His long passing is almost as good as his short passes. He's not just a passer for the sake of it, as his progressive passes are good and he's great at breaking the line. He's the player most watchers compare to Kroos. I'm just not sure if he has the defensive intensity Amorim would want but him next to Ugarte would be a really good combination. Another young player I like who has massive potential as a DLP is Ayyoub Bouaddi of Lille. Give him a year and all the big names will be after him.
Stiller chap?
Thinking about thinking about it
Disagree. I for one welcome our new Ktalian overlords.
Thanks bud. Yeah I really would prefer a DLP type next to Ugarte, over another box to box type. Oh well
See above. Plays for stuttgart.
Fred is a sub par midfielder. McFred is a sub pair midfielder. Just to be pedantic
.I agree we need a tempo controller who can defend in midfield, I’m just not sure if there are any alternatives available?
Different type of player to Larsson from what I've seen who is more B2B.
Stiller's probably a little more refined and more consistent than Wharton at this stage, but I don't think he has the physicality to play in a midfield two. If there's a weakness to his game that stands out to me, it's his inability to get around the pitch quickly and his motor. Both will be key in United's midfield pairing.
In a midfield 3 though, I think he'd be an excellent DLP for someone with the right players around him doing more of the dirty work.
Thanks for that Danny. Yeah, we need more athletic players throughout the squad and in amorims system, we probably need both midfielders to cover tons of ground.
Ktal - is that were Kthulu is from?
He is quite complete, maybe b2b is the closest to his ideal position, but he could easily play as a DLP. But isn't Ederson also a b2b?
I ktan't possibly say
He is. I mentioned that I'd partner Ederson with a deep-lying playmaker but I doubt we'll get two midfielders.
For too long, we’ve lacked a midfielder who can dictate play from deep - something most top European sides have. Instead, our midfield has been filled with ball winners and runners, leaving us without that crucial composure in possession. That’s why, for me, a deep-lying playmaker should be the absolute priority.
Yeah, I haven’t seen much of Larsson, so I’d naturally lean toward Wharton, who I rate quite highly.
As for Camavinga, I’m not sure why he’d leave Madrid, but if he did, I can’t see us being in the mix - especially with plenty of other top clubs likely to be after him, who could offer stability and CL football.
With Wharton I had Rice vibes but, he's in and out of the team the previous past months, while Rice was such a steady presence. I do think he will come good.
Camavinga would be nuts to leave Real, but good player have left Real every year, we just seem to chase the wrong ones.
I think we need two new midfield to be fair, but my point being was that we either get the best of the best or a talent that can match that. Good midfielder trade clubs every summer, I think Ugarte was great addition, we need to be chasing that kind of talents, Ederson I don't rate as the type. With the current options at PSG, Zaïre-Emery might be on the move soon.Fred is a sub par midfielder. McFred is a sub pair midfielder. Just to be pedantic
I agree we need a tempo controller who can defend in midfield, I’m just not sure if there are any alternatives available?
I am sure Toby can do that without costing 60m to be fair.
He may not have been a deep-lying playmaker - at least not in the sense of someone who regularly dropped into the defensive line - but in Hjulmand, he had a capable passer in midfield.
That said, it's actually the centre backs who see most of the ball. Inácio, Diomande, and Coates all averaged over 60 passes per game - the highest in the team - while Hjulmand was the closest midfielder with just 46. This highlights the crucial role Amorim’s centre-backs play in possession.
Interestingly, I came across a video the other day suggesting that if we want to replicate Amorim’s build-up play, we’d need to sign two center-backs and a goalkeeper. Personally, I don’t see that happening, especially given our more pressing needs, but the numbers make it clear just how good they have to be on the ball.
Perhaps, if we do secure elite ball-playing defenders, it could relieve some of the burden on our midfielders, who, in a 3-4-2-1, function more as facilitators rather than primary playmakers.
I’m really unsure myself, tbh. We have Mainoo with a skill set to become class in both midfield and higher up in time, but he is not there yet. Young players aren’t typically able to have tactically super demanding roles in big teams. I like what I’ve seen by Zaire-Emery, but he’s not mature enough either to progress play consistently from midfield, nor to take the responsibility of the 10 role IMO. If we have too many players who will need to grow into the knowledge over a few years, they’ll not learn it because there is no one to make our team play finction well enough for there to be positive learning.
With Ugarte in one midfield role, the other needs to be very able to controll the ball, dictate tempo, progress play I should think. Ironically, we could have more use for a De Jong now under Ten Hag. And we’re not getting De Jong.
But maybe I’m wrong, maybe Amorim can get a working midfield out of Ugarte and Ederson. Or maybe it’s all just rumours and not worth fretting over at all.
I really hate it, I want us to sign players that can dictate play and pass with volume, accuracy and some creativity. Why do we never seem to buy great ball playing midfielders?
It’s not just who we buy but who we promote from youth. McTominay and Collyer both had/have more chances than the less physical but better footballers in Gomes and Garner. My two favourites to watch in the under 18s are Thwaites and Ibragimov but I fear they will have careers away from United whereas if they were from Barcelona they might already have first team action