Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melts edition

Adisa said:
Also just remembered the email he sent out that staff should expect more signings.
He better deliver.
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Of course thats not at all what the email stated. But why bother with the truth right?
You even quoted it yourself and you think that what is says?
 
Johan07 said:
So they dont want Pogba?
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Real Madrid got in early and addressed the core issues. Of course some transfers are going to go to the wire. We have have only signed one player who is a starter while the other is likely to be a squad player for now.

They have spent 300mil euros so far. I guess their larger turnover helps. Funny how people said Ed and the Glazers have been a great success on the commercial side of things. Utd had the biggest turnover in world football every season from 1998 to 2005 yet since then we have only been top a few times.
 
thegregster said:
Real Madrid got in early and addressed the core issues. Of course some transfers are going to go to the wire. We have have only signed one player who is a starter while the other is likely to be a squad player for now.

They have spent 300mil euros so far. I guess their larger turnover helps. Funny how people said Ed and the Glazers have been a great success on the commercial side of things. Utd had the biggest turnover in world football every season from 1998 to 2005 yet since then we have only been top a few times.
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They have also invested almost nothing the last 3--4 summer windows while we have spent a lot on transfers that we are still amortising. They were due a big window.
 
Johan07 said:
They have also invested almost nothing the last 3--4 summer windows while we have spent a lot on transfers that we are still amortising. They were due a big window.
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And they will struggle for not planning ahead, just like us. They may find themselves in the same position they were last decade, after the first Galactico era.
 
DoomSlayer said:
And they will struggle for not planning ahead, just like us. They may find themselves in the same position they were last decade, after the first Galactico era.
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I think we did try to plan ahead. Just not very good....
 
Johan07 said:
They have also invested almost nothing the last 3--4 summer windows while we have spent a lot on transfers that we are still amortising. They were due a big window.
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That is not true...

Real have signed £150m worth last year including Vinicius, Courtious.

THey were due one and they delivered.
 
Johan07 said:
They have also invested almost nothing the last 3--4 summer windows while we have spent a lot on transfers that we are still amortising. They were due a big window.
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We have generated around 2.3billion pound since June 2015.

We have spent virtually nothing on the capital side of things.

We have spent around 360mil net on transfers in that time.
 
Bojan11 said:
Seriously question. You said a month ago not to panic over new signings as preseason had not started. Are you starting to worry now?
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Nope.

By the end of the week we will have got two signings in. I imagine Lukaku and Darmian will have gone.

Even if that doesn’t happen. I couldn’t really care. Just want to see us back, fit and ready to go.
 
thegregster said:
We have generated around 2.3billion pound since June 2015.

We have spent virtually nothing on the capital side of things.

We have spent around 360mil net on transfers in that time.
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Sorry, but it irks me when someone even mentions "net spend". The two most expensive transfers for the club in recent memory are Alexis Sanchez and Zlatan and one "cost" 25m and the other one came on a free.
 
thegregster said:
We have generated around 2.3billion pound since June 2015.

We have spent virtually nothing on the capital side of things.

We have spent around 360mil net on transfers in that time.
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Tbf I have no idea what this even means?
 
@UnitedObsession99

- so why is it so difficult to sell them now? Their salary demands are too high and no they are NOT on sensible rates. I can't think of a club that keeps hold of perennially injured players like we do.

- again, signing a player for a position that was already sorted doesn't make sense. What actually happened was after Sanchez's signing, Martial was moved to the right and he lost all his form. Sanchez was never a once in a generation player.

Also, Martial would have NEVER played as a striker under Jose. Piss poor decision to impede development of a young exciting player and sign an ageing player spending millions.

if Mkhi was to be sold, we should have bought a RW not a LW.

- that's why we are calling him out. Commercial value got more importance than actual squad building. And "we need a star player" is again bad logic for a squad that needed rebuilding

- yeah city have oil money but they backed their manager at all costs! How can someone expect a manager to make do with so many shit players previous managers bought? Jose worked well for two years but when he actually wanted quality, he wasn't backed.

- its not Jose's fault that Bailly kept getting injured. And he had every right to improve upon the dross i.e. Jones, Darmian and Rojo.

- one of the biggest decisions to be made after Jose's sacking cannot be based on the fact that the team needed 'morale' booster and Ed comes up with a contract for OGS.

- so you do agree that we have taken so many gambles. Then why are people defending him for the costly mistakes? Is taking stupid gambles a way to run clubs?
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
@UnitedObsession99

- so why is it so difficult to sell them now? Their salary demands are too high and no they are NOT on sensible rates. I can't think of a club that keeps hold of perennially injured players like we do.

- again, signing a player for a position that was already sorted doesn't make sense. What actually happened was after Sanchez's signing, Martial was moved to the right and he lost all his form. Sanchez was never a once in a generation player.

Also, Martial would have NEVER played as a striker under Jose. Piss poor decision to impede development of a young exciting player and sign an ageing player spending millions.

if Mkhi was to be sold, we should have bought a RW not a LW.

- that's why we are calling him out. Commercial value got more importance than actual squad building. And "we need a star player" is again bad logic for a squad that needed rebuilding

- yeah city have oil money but they backed their manager at all costs! How can someone expect a manager to make do with so many shit players previous managers bought? Jose worked well for two years but when he actually wanted quality, he wasn't backed.

- its not Jose's fault that Bailly kept getting injured. And he had every right to improve upon the dross i.e. Jones, Darmian and Rojo.

- one of the biggest decisions to be made after Jose's sacking cannot be based on the fact that the team needed 'morale' booster and Ed comes up with a contract for OGS.

- so you do agree that we have taken so many gambles. Then why are people defending him for the costly mistakes? Is taking stupid gambles a way to run clubs?
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Tbf "commercial value" of a player is not a real thing.
There are two players in the world that would make a difference to brand and commercial value of a football club; and thats Messi and Ronaldo.
Players like Bale, Hazard, Sanchez (of old) or any other world class player just dont make a difference for shirt sales or whatever you put in "commercial value". The idea that we sign players because of "commercial value" before football skills is quite frankly idiotic.
 
If we are going to build a new stadium where it is going to be ?

Next to Old Trafford ? Or we will move to a temp stadium until they demolish current stadium and build a new one at same place ?
 
Tincanalley said:
Yes, good post. You need to read between the lines a bit - regarding issues at the club - from what the former managers (and one former scout) hinted at after they left. But it's not rocket science. Ed's ego. Ed's cluelessness. Ed as a kind of buffer for the board, who seem remote and only vaguely interested. Ed, with his ham-fisted approach. Splurging too often wrong place, wrong time; skimping when it was time to open the purse-strings.
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Cheers. We look like we’ve spent a lot on paper, and it’s driven by the media. But in reality, we have been shopping for bargain bin players (in the market of the last 5 years) that the board see as better value or are under budget i.e. Rojo, Bailly, Fellaini, Blind, Herrera, Darmian, Depay (young with potential from eredivisie), Falcao (loan, after bad injury), Dalot etc. City operate like we should, they buy bravo, he wasn’t good enough so the next season they sign a proper upgrade.
Our midfield is once again under strength and the right wing is another legacy position. The board will get lucky if Greenwood does well there and I would be happy to see him do well straight away but it’s shocking that we’re relying on hope because the owners restrict the club in spending where needed.
 
romufc said:
I get that Lukaku might not get us £75m but I was responding to the message earlier about we are not signing anyone because the market is too inflated. But it is okay for us to sell a striker for a mere £50m

Also, the other clubs you mention is very infuriating because we are no way near that level. What fans are failing to grasp is that those teams either finished in a CL final or won the league, they dont need much.

City got 5/6 players in Pep's 2nd season
Liverpool got 5/6 players last season as well. VVD, Fabinho, Keita, Shaqiri, Roberston, Allison.

What those clubs are struggling with is finding the right player to improve their teams. It is a major difference to our team.
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We aren't really far behind Tottenham. We finished just below them last season after disastrous start of season.

Chelsea and Arsenal are definitely not far ahead of us. They are both very close to our level. Chelsea have not recruited for obvious reasons but Arsenal have had the same struggles that we have had although they also have less resources.
 
Johan07 said:
Tbf "commercial value" of a player is not a real thing.
There are two players in the world that would make a difference to brand and commercial value of a football club; and thats Messi and Ronaldo.
Players like Bale, Hazard, Sanchez (of old) or any other world class player just dont make a difference for shirt sales or whatever you put in "commercial value". The idea that we sign players because of "commercial value" before football skills is quite frankly idiotic.
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Just out of interest what do you do as a career? It may or may not be relevant, but just interested to know.

In terms of commercial value, i would suggest it is idiotic to say only Messi and Ronaldo have commercial value!

Jo Hart has commercial value FFS otherwise why else is he doing L'oreal adverts!

Every player has a tiering of commercial value, as does any celebrity. They help sell products and draw attention.

Big names bring attention to the club and by nature to the sponsors. Clubs will harnass this attention in various ways, through selling more merchandise, through bigger sponsorship deals, through click through advertising, through brand campaigns to pull in more fans and sponsors.
 
Wedge said:
Didn't the top 6 clubs veto the idea but was overruled by the smaller ones?
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City and United voted against (though Mourinho and Guardiola wanted them to vote in favour), the rest of top six wanted this. Swansea, Watford, Palace and Burnley were the other four clubs voting against, and we needed another club to vote against to stop this nonsense.
 
UnitedObsession99 said:
Just out of interest what do you do as a career? It may or may not be relevant, but just interested to know.

In terms of commercial value, i would suggest it is idiotic to say only Messi and Ronaldo have commercial value!

Jo Hart has commercial value FFS otherwise why else is he doing L'oreal adverts!

Every player has a tiering of commercial value, as does any celebrity. They help sell products and draw attention.

Big names bring attention to the club and by nature to the sponsors. Clubs will harnass this attention in various ways, through selling more merchandise, through bigger sponsorship deals, through click through advertising, through brand campaigns to pull in more fans and sponsors.
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I am a labour law lawyer that has dabbled a bit in sports law in Sweden. If that matters.
I dont disagree on the fact that a club like United needs too have big names playing for us long-term.
I do disagree if someone tries to make the argument that we are valuing individual transfers due to "commercial value" of a certain player. I was to general when I said Messi and Ronaldo as well btw. Pogba is not up there at their level but pretty close even if he has underperformed for us footballing-wise. Thats about the player you can say that about in our squad today though.
My response to the original poster was in reply to the narrative that a player like Sanchez has a commercial value for the club compared to the football player he is. He is/was really not. IMO at least.
 
The argument of how other teams have not signed is one of the lamest one. Manchester City, Liverpool and Tottenham all have much more stable squad and are in a much better position than we are. Even if they just add one or two bodies or worst case don't add any body they are fine. We on the other hand needed to have a strong window. It is us who need to cover the gap with the top teams not vice versa. Woodward proclaims us to be one of the biggest clubs but we hardly act like one.

Prior to the window opened, we badly needed a RB, RW, CM, CB. That is without losing pogba and Lukaku. So far we only have signed a RB and a RW (although one can argue we should have signed Pepe like RW). We have yet to address the other two departments. And I am not even going to discuss about the deadwoods that we should have sold.
 
Johan07 said:
I am a labour law lawyer that has dabbled a bit in sports law in Sweden. If that matters.
I dont disagree on the fact that a club like United needs too have big names playing for us long-term.
I do disagree if someone tries to make the argument that we are valuing individual transfers due to "commercial value" of a certain player. I was to general when I said Messi and Ronaldo as well btw. Pogba is not up there at their level but pretty close even if he has underperformed for us footballing-wise. Thats about the player you can say that about in our squad today though.
My response to the original poster was in reply to the narrative that a player like Sanchez has a commercial value for the club compared to the football player he is. He is/was really not. IMO at least.
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I guess from the legal point of view you would only likely know as far as intellectual property rights have been included in contracts, which should be fairly common in big sporting contracts. But you would almost certainly defer that to an IP specialist.

I get your point about Sanchez, but we are hardly flush in South American stars, so there certainly could have been additional value seen from United's perspective in terms of maintaining/ growing global reach.

As with all marketing valuations putting a precise number should always be taken with a high degree of scrutiny. At minimum though a contract would likely include certain requirements around IP in terms of brand appearances, etc. This has to be pre negotiated as otherwise a player would not be obliged to be included in promo material. Also a club might be in conflict, e.g. a player sponsored by Nike personally, but having obligations to appear in Adidas related club content.

The reason i asked the question is I'm very much on the fringes in terms of knowing any granually detail, but do have a fairly good superficial knowledge. Very few people outside marketing and IP specialists will know the real commercial value, but I'm certain this all has a strong bearing on what we pay and why.
 
UnitedObsession99 said:
I guess from the legal point of view you would only likely know as far as intellectual property rights have been included in contracts, which should be fairly common in big sporting contracts. But you would almost certainly defer that to an IP specialist.

I get your point about Sanchez, but we are hardly flush in South American stars, so there certainly could have been additional value seen from United's perspective in terms of maintaining/ growing global reach.

As with all marketing valuations putting a precise number should always be taken with a high degree of scrutiny. At minimum though a contract would likely include certain requirements around IP in terms of brand appearances, etc. This has to be pre negotiated as otherwise a player would not be obliged to be included in promo material. Also a club might be in conflict, e.g. a player sponsored by Nike personally, but having obligations to appear in Adidas related club content.
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But United’s executive vice-chairman Woodward is adamant the money required to land Sanchez was well within the club’s budget, while also underlining the commercial benefits of signing one of the highest profile players in the Premier League.

Sales of Sanchez’ No.7 shirt for January have already outstripped the previous record for the month three times over.

The announcement of his arrival also dwarfed Neymar’s world-record move to Paris St Germain last summer - generating 75 percent more social media interactions.

Addressing United’s shareholders on the New York Stock Exchange, Woodward said: “Our solid business model has allowed us to invest in the future of the club with the extension of Jose Mourinho’s contract as manager and the acquisition of Alexis Sanchez.

This trade generated some interesting social media stats. It was the biggest United post on Instagram with 2m likes and comments, the most shared United Facebook post ever, the most retweeted post ever and #Alexis7 was the number one trending topic on Twitter world wide.

“To put all of that into context the announcement posts generated 75 percent more interactions than the announcement of the world's most expensive player last summer when Neymar moved from Barcelona to PSG.

“Alexis Sanchez has also set a new January signing record in terms of shirt sales - three times that previous record.”
 
Wumminator said:
Nope.

By the end of the week we will have got two signings in. I imagine Lukaku and Darmian will have gone.

Even if that doesn’t happen. I couldn’t really care. Just want to see us back, fit and ready to go.
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We won't be 'ready to go' without strengthening. Unless you count competing for 6th-4th as 'ready to go'?
 
The lack of adequate investment is not incompetence by Woodward, although he is incompetent in many areas. It is a conscious business decision by the Glazers who are fully aligned with Woodward.

They want to avoid spending so they can take dividends, pay off their debt and most importantly grow the value of the club, grow their asset. They've said winning things doesnt impact club value or financials much so why would they bother.

Anyone who has not realised this by now must have their head in the sand. Fans should be kicking off.
 
I cannot see us signing 2 players. We will just be signing Maguire by paying 80-90m and that would be it. Another poor transfer window on the cards.
 
oz insomniac said:
So, the thread is mainly about the rucat Ce of Woody to support t manager and to get signings done quickly. This has certainly not been the experince while he has been the CEO.

In fact he is getting rose as seen by the actions this transfer window as he dithers and low balls as usual.

The surprise is the defence mounted by the Keefys and Johan, mainly using the tactic of there could be worse owners or the so called lynch mob doesn't understand financials.

What the majority of posters want, is swift action, relative to the needs of strengthening the club and a recognition of the financial resources and the need to compete at the top end of the EPL.

Yes sure, the have been past mistakes, but why should this continue. A club like Man Utd should be able to offer real competition with ManCity and Liverpool, certainly outspend those outside the top 4, that's independent of past signings, and move players on once past their use by date.

This is not occurring and that is the real level of concern, that the biggest club in the EPL is faltering and looking second rate. Until the targets for this summer progress beyond a Championship Winger and a Palace RB, the defence of of Woody is far from satisfactory and his actions are pretty underwhelming.
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Completely agree with you, it is about so much more than just this transfer window.
 
Sarni said:
We aren't really far behind Tottenham. We finished just below them last season after disastrous start of season.

Chelsea and Arsenal are definitely not far ahead of us. They are both very close to our level. Chelsea have not recruited for obvious reasons but Arsenal have had the same struggles that we have had although they also have less resources.
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I agree, but Spurs had Champions League to concentrate on that's why they tailed off with a thin squad. They clearly looking to strengthen.

Arsenal look like they will do more than us.
They have got a young player in Martinelli like we have Dan James.
They are close to securing a deal for Nicholas Pepe
They signed Cabellos on Loan
They could potentially sign Tierney from Celtic

So, Arsenal with less resources are doing more business than we are? shows the right state we are in?
 
romufc said:
I agree, but Spurs had Champions League to concentrate on that's why they tailed off with a thin squad. They clearly looking to strengthen.

Arsenal look like they will do more than us.
They have got a young player in Martinelli like we have Dan James.
They are close to securing a deal for Nicholas Pepe
They signed Cabellos on Loan
They could potentially sign Tierney from Celtic

So, Arsenal with less resources are doing more business than we are? shows the right state we are in?
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As of now we have spent more than Arsenal.

Including rumours we are likely to spend more than Arsenal.

How on Earth can you turn that around to us doing less than Arsenal?
 
My only hope for this window lies in the fact that Ed loves mark signings. Maguire or AWB are not that. So maybe he goes for Dybala or Eriksen.
Yes, clutching at straws now
 
DoomSlayer said:
I don't think we really did. The people in charge thought there would be another Sir Alex out there. There isn't and there may never be one again.
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I dont think its not being able to find another sir alex but rathar we have a family of leeches resident and until we get rid then we are going to be sick.
 
Doing business early is more difficult than most of the halfwits that cry on seem to realise, which I appreciate. But the board (Woodward included) are playing a dangerous game here.

Ole is doing his part. Pre season has been positive and he’s saying all of the right things. But he needs to be backed with further signings, particularly at centre half and in central midfield. If, for whatever reason, this doesn’t happen then this time the manager will have been let down.

Big week ahead.
 
Wumminator said:
As of now we have spent more than Arsenal.

Including rumours we are likely to spend more than Arsenal.

How on Earth can you turn that around to us doing less than Arsenal?
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I said they look like. Don't mean they already have.
How on earth? Because Arsenal have got 2 bodies in so far, Manutd have got 2 as well.

They have got a medical booked for Pepe. That makes it 3. Las time I checked 3 is more than 2.
 
Johan07 said:
Tbf "commercial value" of a player is not a real thing.
There are two players in the world that would make a difference to brand and commercial value of a football club; and thats Messi and Ronaldo.
Players like Bale, Hazard, Sanchez (of old) or any other world class player just dont make a difference for shirt sales or whatever you put in "commercial value". The idea that we sign players because of "commercial value" before football skills is quite frankly idiotic.
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If no footballers except Messi and Ronaldo had commercial value none of them would have multi million contracts with brands of all over the world. You seriously think that it doesn't matter what players we have when attracting sponsors at the club? You are so full of yourself.
 
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